The argument being made

#1
Fighting Possum

Fighting Possum

U of Memphis AFROTC INSTR
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#1
by many on VolNation is that those who are upset with Butch are failing to see the progress this team has made since he took over the program. Quite the contrary. I think this team has improved significantly, but only because the talent level is much better. It was unfair to judge the coaching staff in the first two years because they were playing with inferior talent. Now they have the talent. I have no doubt that Butch was the right coach to bring that talent level back. Those that are upset with him are upset because he has done nothing to demonstrate that he can translate talent into victories. I undestand those who want to commend him for the progress we've made. What I don't understand is what that has to do with whether or not he can advance us past this point. GBO!
 
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#3
#3
There has been progress made, no doubt, but how could the program been in much worse shape? Don't get me wrong, I don't want to start over as much as anyone.

The issue I have is that this staff has yet to prove they can coach. The lack of in game adjustments and player development is evident. Anyone that truly believes they are doing the best they can at this point is lying to themselves. There is a reason why we have yet to beat a good program they can't run with the big dogs. I hope they wise up and change, I really do.

But the 3 losses we have would have been wins if just a little more coaching took place.
 
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#4
#4
I would concur. At the very least, Butch appears to be quite stubborn and too insular in putting together his staff. The Debord hire shows that he had to have someone that he had worked with before who wouldn't insist on having much input with the system. He had better options. He also seems reluctant to make necessary changes such as with Mahoney. The team has played extremely tight with a 2nd half lead throughout his tenure. It has come to a boil this year but has always been a problem (Vandy '13, Florida '14). There is nothing to indicate that anything is going to change when you listen to his rhetoric.
 
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#7
#7
Depends on how you measure progress. In terms of recruiting/upgrading talent, Butch has made great strides. There should be improvements on the field as a result of the upgraded talent alone. In terms of player development/wins, I've seen little improvement if not regression in areas. This will all fall under coaching and Jones has shown nothing to me that would indicate he can coach his way to anything more than mediocre.
 
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#8
#8
Fighting Possum said:
by many on VolNation is that those who are upset with Butch are failing to see the progress this team has made since he took over the program. Quite the contrary. I think this team has improved significantly, but only because the talent level is much better. It was unfair to judge the coaching staff in the first two years because they were playing with inferior talent. Now they have the talent. I have no doubt that Butch was the right coach to bring that talent level back. Those that are upset with him are upset because he has done nothing to demonstrate that he can translate talent into victories. I undestand those who want to commend him for the progress we've made. What I don't understand is what that has to do with whether or not he can advance us past this point. GBO!
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I think that's a legitimate question and discussion to hold.
 
#9
#9
He has set the team up to win in every game... I know people want instant success but we aren't there yet... We are very close and I think that is what it bothering people so much... We were very close to being 5-0 and that is what people see... Last year be got our but kicked by Oklahoma, only put up 3 field goals against Florida.. We had Arkansas, but a TD was called back, and fumble inside the red zone hurt!!!! We aren't all young but most of out starters have been in the system only 1 yrs, some just part of their first season... a win Saturday will make some feel better,but Bama is the week after off week!!!! Strap it on and let go...
 
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#13
#13
If Butch can figure out how to close out games and win especially against ranked opponents and rivals, then this goes away. This is what is alarming to me.

2013 - Georgia L 31-34 in Overtime
2014 - Georgia L 32-35
2014 - Florida (unranked but still hurts) L 9-10
2014 - Missouri L 21-29
2015 - Oklahoma L 24-31 OT
2015 - Florida L 27-28

I didn't put the losses to Arkansas (2015) or Vandy (2013) on this list, but as you can see this list trending in the wrong direction in year 3.

He did beat a ranked USCjr in 2013.
 
#14
#14
volman12 said:
I can counter that argument, against Georgia the past two years with crappy talent he has out coached Georgia.
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There is some truth to that but of course, we still lost. In a way it gets back to a basic point that oddly, we play much better from behind (such as Georgia '13 and South Carolina '14) than we do from ahead. Butch coaches conservatively with a 2nd half lead and the team follows by playing very tight.
 
#19
#19
Fighting Possum said:
by many on VolNation is that those who are upset with Butch are failing to see the progress this team has made since he took over the program. Quite the contrary. I think this team has improved significantly, but only because the talent level is much better. It was unfair to judge the coaching staff in the first two years because they were playing with inferior talent. Now they have the talent. I have no doubt that Butch was the right coach to bring that talent level back. Those that are upset with him are upset because he has done nothing to demonstrate that he can translate talent into victories. I undestand those who want to commend him for the progress we've made. What I don't understand is what that has to do with whether or not he can advance us past this point. GBO!
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Ok, I really need to stop doing this, I fall bait here goes, first of all we gave him the benefit of the doubt his first two years and was excited about the recruiting he has done. 2. We curb stopped Iowa. Here come the disappointment. 4th quarter loss to ou, 4th quarter loss to Florida who offensive line is younger and the first year of their system and we are in our third year in our system, 4 point loss to Arkansas which by the way we were up by 14 points on time in the game. Are their any other excuses for this guy!
 
#20
#20
Tbh, I'd give him 50/50 on whether he's here next year or not. Not based on performance to this point but this is the most adversity that Butch has face, afaik, and it's on a big stage. I'm just not confident the wheels aren't going to fall off but I'm more than willing to be wrong about that. Right now, at best, I think we end up 6-6. I predicted 8-4.

I'm not sure if 6-6 keeps him here with 3 of those losses being heart breakers and very winnable.
 
#21
#21
ALLVOL 4LIFE said:
There has been progress made, no doubt, but how could the program been in much worse shape? Don't get me wrong, I don't want to start over as much as anyone.

The issue I have is that this staff has yet to prove they can coach. The lack of in game adjustments and player development is evident. Anyone that truly believes they are doing the best they can at this point is lying to themselves. There is a reason why we have yet to beat a good program they can't run with the big dogs. I hope they wise up and change, I really do.

But the 3 losses we have would have been wins if just a little more coaching took place.
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Hard to blame the Defense too much since they're on the field practically the whole game; the lack of a passing game & ability to keep moving the O down the field handicaps the Defense.
 
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#22
#22
Butch has improved the talent level by leaps and bounds. That's a credit to him as well as an indictment. The talent is now in place to judge him on reults. So far he's fallen flat on his face.

At the end of the day, even if he doesn't work out, the program is still better off because of his tenure here.
 
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#23
#23
chuck0303 said:
Hard to blame the Defense too much since they're on the field practically the whole game; the lack of a passing game & ability to keep moving the O down the field handicaps the Defense.
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The defense can absolutely be blamed for not being able to stop a 4th and long on 5 different occasions against Florida.
 
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#24
#24
volman12 said:
I can counter that argument, against Georgia the past two years with crappy talent he has out coached Georgia.
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And the outcome of that coaching genius was Ws....er, that would be a NO!

I just had to make that point, but I would agree with you on both of those games it was certainly there for the taking; couple of miscues. This year do you have the same confidence? I would love to say I do, but I don't. I sure hope he proves us all wrong. Would love at least thinking we have a chance against Bama, but no UGA win, and that slim chance will evaporate.
 
#25
#25
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
The defense can absolutely be blamed for not being able to stop a 4th and long on 5 different occasions against Florida.
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Oh I agree the defense has multiple, in a row, chances to win the game I'm just saying how can you blame them not being tired after having been out there most of the game. By the same token, where's the coaching that would have made the difference? Any one of those 4th down stops would have made the difference in a W or L, but those weren't the only opportunities we had to win the game.
 
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