CBJ Coaching Ability

#1
Captain Awesome

Captain Awesome

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#1
I've heard a number of people say that the jury is still out for them on whether or not CBJ is a good in-game coach. No one is questioning his recruiting ability (how could they?). But some have said that some calls over the past couple of years have raised concerns for them. Can anyone give me a reason for this? I'm not a huge football mind. I'm not going to be able to say, "We should've been in a 4-4 instead of a nickel." But the overall running of the game I have a pretty good feel for. I thought the fake field goal against Mizzou last year was very gutsy and a great call. However, I do remember a big game (against who I can't remember) where he challenged a call near the end of the game that wasn't close and we needed the timeout at the end and didn't have it and lost. I could see that as his guys up top not getting back to him in time and him making the challenge based off of what he saw. I personally haven't been really taken aback by anything I have seen though. If you're in that camp, what have you seen that makes you feel that way?
 
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#3
#3
Coaching is done during practice. Game management is done during games. I think Butch Jones is excellent during practices and getting teams prepared. His game management and game plan is decent but not great imo. Should have been more assertive against Florida last year on offense. Needs to keep his finger on the pulse more of the flow of the game so that he knows when to pull the plug on a failing game plan or improvise when necessary.

Overall, I think he is a great recruiter, great coach, and decent Gane manager. Overall B+
 
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#4
#4
I'm not one of these people of whom you speak. I look back at what Butch did in previous head coaching jobs and affirm that he can, indeed, coach a good game. I'm confident that we'll see that reaffirmed here, now that he has a boatload of real talent to work with.

But I can repeat to you the perspective of those who aren't convinced. They tend to point to these indicators in their doubt:
  • Not recognizing Dobbs' talent earlier
  • Bad game management and play calling vs Florida in 2014 (and for some, 2013 too)
  • Losses of exceptional # of players from the '13 (and, lesser extent, '14) signing classes
  • Tolerance of Coach Bajakian and his predictable, uninspired play calling for so long
  • Selection of Coach DeBord as OC
That's most of them. There are probably a couple of others I'm forgetting. Not all of these are game-day actions...but the folks who doubt Butch tend to have some combination of game day and broader coaching duty concerns.

Want to reiterate: this is not my point of view. I have faith in Butch's gameday / game week talents.

Go Vols!
 
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#6
#6
When we bring in a rookie QB he gets bull-rushed by the opposition, several examples of this recently. Florida brings in a rookie last year game should be over, instead we drop back into coverage and contain. Yeah the kid had some wheels but you make him use them in that situation, IMO anyway.
 
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#8
#8
Any coach, and I mean any coach can be criticized, especially on single instances. None of them are perfect. Hindsight is what it is. Every coach is micro-analyzed these days.

The ultimate measure is the win/loss record. Time will tell where Jones falls.
 
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#9
#9
In game every coach makes boneheaded decisions. Even Meyer and Saban made a few questionable decisions last year in their game. Talent level magnifies or minimizes the impact of these decisions. Jones has had some questionable calls and decisions BUT I think he gets it right a lot more often than he gets it wrong. As the talent has gotten closer we have pulled closer to the pack even beating teams like Carolina and Spurrier. We just need to take the next step and this will be the year where you can begin to judge the Butch Jones era.
 
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#10
#10
Take a team devoid of talent and experience, the next year add in talent but youth. CBJ tried to keep them from making a devastating end of half
mistake in several games,like a pick 6,that kind of mistake can kill a young team for the rest of a season. Now going forward, we have enough experience and playmakers that CBJ
won't be playing it safe like in the past 2 years, in fact with the weapons UT has now, he may be overly aggressive trying to put points on the board at the end of every half and game
 
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#11
#11
Captain Awesome said:
I've heard a number of people say that the jury is still out for them on whether or not CBJ is a good in-game coach. No one is questioning his recruiting ability (how could they?). But some have said that some calls over the past couple of years have raised concerns for them. Can anyone give me a reason for this? I'm not a huge football mind. I'm not going to be able to say, "We should've been in a 4-4 instead of a nickel." But the overall running of the game I have a pretty good feel for. I thought the fake field goal against Mizzou last year was very gutsy and a great call. However, I do remember a big game (against who I can't remember) where he challenged a call near the end of the game that wasn't close and we needed the timeout at the end and didn't have it and lost. I could see that as his guys up top not getting back to him in time and him making the challenge based off of what he saw. I personally haven't been really taken aback by anything I have seen though. If you're in that camp, what have you seen that makes you feel that way?
Click to expand...

Here's one....he's 0-10 at Tennessee when trailing at halftime.
 
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#14
#14
Captain Awesome said:
I've heard a number of people say that the jury is still out for them on whether or not CBJ is a good in-game coach. No one is questioning his recruiting ability (how could they?). But some have said that some calls over the past couple of years have raised concerns for them. Can anyone give me a reason for this? I'm not a huge football mind. I'm not going to be able to say, "We should've been in a 4-4 instead of a nickel." But the overall running of the game I have a pretty good feel for. I thought the fake field goal against Mizzou last year was very gutsy and a great call. However, I do remember a big game (against who I can't remember) where he challenged a call near the end of the game that wasn't close and we needed the timeout at the end and didn't have it and lost. I could see that as his guys up top not getting back to him in time and him making the challenge based off of what he saw. I personally haven't been really taken aback by anything I have seen though. If you're in that camp, what have you seen that makes you feel that way?
Click to expand...

The call that CBJ challenged more than likely the Onside Kick that we recovered and still believe the Zebras made the wrong call.

His GA game management was good two years ago. As well as this past years comeback at USCe

Being a good coach equals what. He is not yet great. But he is on track. APR scores is coaching, He has continued to gain the necessary players and improve the teams performance. Time will tell this year is the start of it.
 
#15
#15
Any coach can be criticized and nothing I have seen from Jones makes me think he is not a good coach. If you watched CPF, who is a hall of fame coach, he made mistakes quite often as does every other coach in America. To suggest otherwise is idiotic, Jones is a good coach and rarely do poor coaches succeed in college football over a long period of time. He has been successful everywhere he has coached.
 
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#16
#16
I would love to see all of the specifics of Butch's bad coaching. Not saying they don't exist I'd just like someone to point to something specific ie: play, situation etc.

Against Florida I'm sure he had some bad moves but was it more than average by a good coach in a game?

Also how much blame do you place on Worley throwing a pick in the red-zone that took potential 3pts off the board and the win?

So the question isn't does he make in game mistakes, everyone does, but does he make more than the good coaches? That I don't know.
 
#17
#17
DL916 said:
I would love to see all of the specifics of Butch's bad coaching. Not saying they don't exist I'd just like someone to point to something specific ie: play, situation etc.
Click to expand...

I also would LOVE to see this list. Like you, not being argumentative, I would truly like to see this through the eyes of the people who have doubts. I want to follow them through the 2014 Florida game, and look with them at the decision Butch made in the 3rd Qtr with 3:14 on the clock (fictional example there, don't bother queuing it up).

I'd be intensely curious and appreciative, if someone could provide a rundown of decisions with time hacks, game by game.
 
#20
#20
When you only have a dollar, you are limited to the dollar menu. If you have $5, your choices on the menu increase.

This year, CBJ is looking at the $50 menu and his mouth is watering. Wait until next year when he has the $100 menu.
 
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#21
#21
VFL-82-JP said:
  • Not recognizing Dobbs' talent earlier
  • Bad game management and play calling vs Florida in 2014 (and for some, 2013 too)
  • Losses of exceptional # of players from the '13 (and, lesser extent, '14) signing classes
  • Tolerance of Coach Bajakian and his predictable, uninspired play calling for so long
  • Selection of Coach DeBord as OC
Go Vols!
Click to expand...

VFL-82-JP, thanks for the summary of some of our fans' concerns. Below are my thoughts on the listed items:

Dobbs: If Dobbs does not prepare or present himself well in practice, how is CBJ supposed to evaluate his talent? With the lack of performance during practice and the request of Dobbs' family for the redshirt, I do not have a problem with this decision. The OL was awful last year and wanting to subject a running QB to that level of play was a huge gamble.

FL: Agree there were some questionable calls. However, with no OL success, the offense was going to struggle. I do not think losing a close game to an SEC rival (as long as it isn't Vandy or KY) is necessarily indicative of a poor game day coach. Over the years, TN has won some games we should have lost and lost some games we should have won. This happens to all coaches. Do we label CPF as a poor game day coach because he lost to Memphis with Peyton as QB?

Loss of players from signing classes: Not indicative of a poor game day coach. Perhaps it was a poor decision to sign some of the players and perhaps certain players did not respond to tough coaches, but I do not recall any of them leaving due to CBJ's game day coaching.

CMB: CMB coached with CBJ for 8 years, so there was a level of familiarity with CMB's style and knowledge of the game. CMB was an OC from 2007-2014, had been the OQC for the Bears, and is now the QB coach for the Bucs. I guess our fans' saying he is predictable was good enough for the NFL. Talent has a lot to do with play calling.

CMD: We have not had one game under CMD's offense, so it is ridiculous to criticize the selection until we see some results. CMD started coaching in 1982...before some on here were out of diapers. He also spent 5 years in the NFL. With the positive response from non-TN players and coaches familiar with CMD, I would say it was a good hire. If the results are not positive, then we move on to the next person. The attention to detail in TN practices seems to indicate things are going well for the offense.
 
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#22
#22
He has -- at times -- become EXTREMELY conservative in close games. When you lose those games such as VU '13 and UF '14, it can be hard to swallow.

But, in fairness, you have to ask why he took that path. It is reasonable -- as suggested -- that he played the cards he had in terms of talent, and if the talent instilled more confidence, he'd be less inclined to be so tight.

We'll see.
 
#23
#23
Things I *****ed about.

- Starting & staying with Nate Peterman in the swamp 2 yrs ago.
- Time management vs UGA the past two years
- 2013 we had 4 Nfl o-lineman, couldn't figure out a way to utilize their strengths, failed in too many short yard situations in which we had more talent in the trenches.
- Being in field goal range vs Florida last year and running a double reverse that loses 15 yards. 3 points would of been big.
-2013 vs Vanderbilt
- 3rd & forever was converted too much against the defense.

I'm no football genius, but I don't like being in the shotgun the whole game. It's not so bad with Dobbs, but his system wasn't suitable at all for Worley and if I hadn't seen Lane Kiffin simplify his system to help Jon Crompton look %100 better I would just chalk it up to Worley simply being bad "which he was", but there's a part of me that thinks there was something they could've done to make him play better.

Every Vol fan seems to be an expert at what plays the team needs to be calling, I've been critical of every coach we've had; hated Fulmer ball with the two runs up the gut and then a bubble screen, Chavis' mustang package, Dooley's lack of football basics, Sunseris' unbelievably terrible 3-4 defense.

My hope is Butch' s offense is like that at Oregon and Mizzou, not that it's so fast or uptempo, rather that after a few years UT can plug anyone in and play and not miss a beat because they know the offense so well.
 
#24
#24
I agree there have been some questionable calls that may have cost us some games.

CBJ is doing so many things right that I find it hard to criticize his decision making. Having coached a lot of baseball, I have found that being inside the fence is a lonely place sometimes. You win some and you lose some.

It's not hard to see the cultural change that CBJ has brought to this team. The players are all in and they always talk about things from the team perspective.. To me, that is huge and I believe the mold has been cast. It is up to the players to execute. These guys won't quit on CBJ and that will hopefully begin to pay dividends as the talent level is finally there to be able to compete. I am confident that CBJ will get it done until he proves otherwise.
 
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