Some thoughts on how Butch runs the team, and a parallel I thought of

#1
agent|orange

agent|orange

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#1
If a photoshop coolguy can take this iconic recruiting poster:

Vtb9gRg.jpg


And replace the DIs face with Butch's and "The Marines" with "The Vols", it'd be great.

All in all, it seems appropriate. No gilded promises, only the chance to work hard and earn what you get (this is based on recruits comments, we have no actual idea what he's promising anyone). Once you're in, you're in the family for life. You join to be the best, nothing shorted. (No offense to fellow DoD members, of course)

Butch (and all CFB coaches, to be honest) have a daunting task of taking a bunch of alpha types and breaking them down to be able to work, cohesively, as members of a team. In ways, seeing him in Spring and Fall practices out there speed-shuffling around, barking out orders and calling out every minute problem... it reminded me of a standard Parris Island DI.

I couldn't help (and neither could my dad, also a Marine Vet) seeing Spring Practice under Butch as a mental conditioning program.. not just physical. Everything is orderly, you're under constant scrutiny, you will not idle and slack off. That stood out to me the most in contrast with how Dooley ran his practices, from what we saw.
 
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#3
#3
OrangeByBirth said:
Enough of the Sgt Carter already!
Click to expand...

Just in case you don't know... that isn't Sgt Carter in the poster. That's an actual DI and that was an actual recruiting poster the Marines used through the 70s and 80s.

Though honestly I wouldn't think a lot of VN's denizens would know who Sgt Carter is either.
 
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#4
#4
AgentOrange, you are not the first to see parallels between football and war, teams and units, players and soldiers (or marines, if you will). One's a game, the other is deadly serious business, but there are striking similarities, nonetheless.

I've always thought it was not a coincidence that General Neyland did so well leading our Vols. Leadership is leadership, and development of young men* for performance under difficult conditions is a challenge shared across enterprises.



* and young women, where applicable.
 
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#6
#6
I think some (not all) of the players who have chose to go elsewhere, had a hard time with this simple fact. You are a student-athlete. You will either be going to class, in class, studying for class, OR you will be working on the athlete side of things. You really wont get by getting up, going to class, going to workout, then practice then chill for the rest of the day. Under CBJ if you have time to chill, you have time to work on being better. He expects all of your waking time spent on improving..
 
#8
#8
Nocleats said:
I think some (not all) of the players who have chose to go elsewhere, had a hard time with this simple fact. You are a student-athlete. You will either be going to class, in class, studying for class, OR you will be working on the athlete side of things. You really wont get by getting up, going to class, going to workout, then practice then chill for the rest of the day. Under CBJ if you have time to chill, you have time to work on being better. He expects all of your waking time spent on improving..
Click to expand...

I didn't play CFB, obviously, but boot was a huge reality check for some guys.

Some joined because they liked the uniform (that wasn't even issued).

Some joined because they played CoD and thought the Marines would be 24/7 CoD.

Some joined for free college money.

All of them got a very rude awakening and were quickly zeroed in on by the DIs and absolutely thrashed.

I'm sure, if given the opportunity to quit... probably 1/2 of my platoon at PI would have quit the military outright or taken an easier road.

I think there is a very similar path here. Both sets (CFB recruits and military recruits) are sold a lifestyle by their recruiters that isn't a lie but it is underselling the bad while overselling the good (whatever it is to the individual). Whatever gets you to enlist/enroll. Then when you get there, bets are off.

I don't think these kids are being lied to but I don't think they're being told the "if we get a hint of weakness or a quitters attitude, we're going to crawl so far up your backside we can be your dentists" reality of the situation.

Given even what is in the spring practice videos... Butch's staff is going and getting it. They don't pull punches and they don't tolerate people half-assing it. I love that in the staff. I can understand why a self-absorbed 18y/o that was expecting nothing but running through the T would not.

Some guys just want to get to the top of Everest without ever climbing it.
 
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#9
#9
Good analogies.

There are many ways to lead. Our military has a tried and true method that has worked well for many years. Those methods are not for everyone, or the faint of heart. I believe that those methods work well in the military as well as most sports environments.

Tough love and foot in the keaster. Those that have the intestinal fortitude to stick it out develop a bond and camaraderie that can never be broken.

And, thank you for all that have served our great nation! Freedom is not free!
 
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#10
#10
CFB and the military are not exactly the same. If I recall WWI* correctly, you couldn't transfer until your eligibility or your life expired.



* It may have been Korea, instead.
 
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#11
#11
That DI on that poster looks like a nice guy compared to the DI's I had at PI in 1971.

The analysis is correct though.

Both in the military and in football they try to totally break you down from a psychological standpoint while starting to build you up physically.

Once they break you down they install the belief systems and mental toughness that you must have to succeed and continue to improve under the toughest situations.

There's simply no room for the weak or the quitters in the military or on a college football team so those people must be removed as soon as possible to open up spots for the mentally tough that can and will compete and continue to improve to become the best they can be.

I also agree that's part of the reasons that General Neyland had such great success both in the military and on the football field.

Same can be said of General Patton since it's well documented on how hard he pushed his troops.

If kids leave/transfer out because buTch and our coaches are tough and keep pushing them hard to become better and better then I believe we have the right kind of coaches to get us back in the top 10 consistently.

When the going gets tough, the tough get going!

We saw the beginning of that bearing fruit last season at USCe.

Competition gets a lot tougher in college but if they want any chance at all to make a NFL roster then these kids better get tough, determined and work as hard as they can or they'll have no hope at all at the next level.

VFL = Semper Fi!

#BrickbyBrick...VFL...GBO!!!
 
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#12
#12
Nocleats said:
I think some (not all) of the players who have chose to go elsewhere, had a hard time with this simple fact. You are a student-athlete. You will either be going to class, in class, studying for class, OR you will be working on the athlete side of things. You really wont get by getting up, going to class, going to workout, then practice then chill for the rest of the day. Under CBJ if you have time to chill, you have time to work on being better. He expects all of your waking time spent on improving..
Click to expand...

I think you are correct and as I have previously pointed out this reminds me of a certain women's basketball coach that was around UT for close to 40 years. If he has half the success she did I think we will all be Giddy!
.... I also believe General Neyland had pretty much the same philosophy as coach Summitt or vice versa & he did okay as a coach too! 😄🏈
 
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#13
#13
volboy81 said:
I think you are correct and as I have previously pointed out this reminds me of a certain women's basketball coach that was around UT for close to 40 years. If he has half the success she did I think we will all be Giddy!
.... I also believe General Neyland had pretty much the same philosophy as coach Summitt or vice versa & he did okay as a coach too! 😄🏈
Click to expand...

Man, I remember the one time Pat ever spoke to me.

I was an attendant at her summer camp (great gig for a HSer) and was pulled TBA one day. She had a very specific way she wanted the balls set up to make her drills and demonstrations go off without a hitch. I didn't get that memo and instead staged them like I had at Gibbs/West/Fulton where it was just the campers showing up and practicing.

What. A. Colossal. Mistake.

She tore into me very specifically in front of the entire camp (same-aged girls, of course). "If you ever want to go anywhere in life, you have to do exactly as you're told. You aren't the one who decides how your job is done, I am" were her exact words. And this was to a High Schooler that was an unpaid attendant (we got Adidas shoes, actually). She was dead right and even my immature 15y/o @ss knew it. I should have checked if there were different staging requirements instead of just leering at the older girl campers. As well as Michelle Snow. Girl towered over everyone.

So to be honest, as long as it isn't actual abuse... these manchildren need to buck up. A lot of kids have been pampered as it's "detrimental to their fragile psyche" to tell them they've done wrong and need to hem up their gaping mancanoe. Most can obviously hack it and are thriving.

I tend to adamantly agree with Jayson Swain, Travis Stephens (our own VFL34) and JRM. If you can't take the heat in the kitchen, GTFO. A weak psyche usually makes a weak soldier/player.
 
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#14
#14
agent|orange said:
Just in case you don't know... that isn't Sgt Carter in the poster. That's an actual DI and that was an actual recruiting poster the Marines used through the 70s and 80s.

Though honestly I wouldn't think a lot of VN's denizens would know who Sgt Carter is either.
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself, kid.
 
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#17
#17
Wait.
I thought Butch supposedly did make promises and broke them. Isn't that why all of those guys left?













Oh yeah, and the cursing.
 
#18
#18
Not trying to be disrespectful but would like someone to help Butch increase his vocabulary. His constant repetition of everything "IS CRITICAL" is driving me crazy. Yes, things are important, and in the heat of the moment and under the PR media lights I understand but could someone, anyone, mention it to him get a synonym (spell) dictionary.
 
#19
#19
agent|orange said:
I didn't play CFB, obviously, but boot was a huge reality check for some guys.

Some joined because they liked the uniform (that wasn't even issued).

Some joined because they played CoD and thought the Marines would be 24/7 CoD.

Some joined for free college money.

All of them got a very rude awakening and were quickly zeroed in on by the DIs and absolutely thrashed.

I'm sure, if given the opportunity to quit... probably 1/2 of my platoon at PI would have quit the military outright or taken an easier road.

I think there is a very similar path here. Both sets (CFB recruits and military recruits) are sold a lifestyle by their recruiters that isn't a lie but it is underselling the bad while overselling the good (whatever it is to the individual). Whatever gets you to enlist/enroll. Then when you get there, bets are off.

I don't think these kids are being lied to but I don't think they're being told the "if we get a hint of weakness or a quitters attitude, we're going to crawl so far up your backside we can be your dentists" reality of the situation.

Given even what is in the spring practice videos... Butch's staff is going and getting it. They don't pull punches and they don't tolerate people half-assing it. I love that in the staff. I can understand why a self-absorbed 18y/o that was expecting nothing but running through the T would not.

Some guys just want to get to the top of Everest without ever climbing it.
Click to expand...

Yep, it was a RUDE AWAKENING for me going through basic and after about Day 3 I thought to myself "What the H_ll did I get myself into"? Had someone said let's go AWOL I'd have beaten them out the door. Hindsight being 20-20, it was the best thing for me in my life, gave me a sense of direction, responsibility, among a thousand other advantages. Growing up is tough and it helps to have someone guide you in the right way. Yes, I remember Sgt Carter as I'm an old guy.
 
#20
#20
chuck0303 said:
Not trying to be disrespectful but would like someone to help Butch increase his vocabulary. His constant repetition of everything "IS CRITICAL" is driving me crazy. Yes, things are important, and in the heat of the moment and under the PR media lights I understand but could someone, anyone, mention it to him get a synonym (spell) dictionary.
Click to expand...

Yeahhhh...we'll do that lil champion. :shhh: In the meantime, sit down with a nice cool glass of water and try on this nice jacket Uncle Butchna got for you.
 

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#21
#21
chuck0303 said:
Yep, it was a RUDE AWAKENING for me going through basic and after about Day 3 I thought to myself "What the H_ll did I get myself into"? Had someone said let's go AWOL I'd have beaten them out the door. Hindsight being 20-20, it was the best thing for me in my life, gave me a sense of direction, responsibility, among a thousand other advantages. Growing up is tough and it helps to have someone guide you in the right way. Yes, I remember Sgt Carter as I'm an old guy.
Click to expand...

How do you know someone was a grunt? They'll find a way to put 03 in everywhere.
 
#23
#23
VFL-82-JP said:
AgentOrange, you are not the first to see parallels between football and war, teams and units, players and soldiers (or marines, if you will). One's a game, the other is deadly serious business, but there are striking similarities, nonetheless.

I've always thought it was not a coincidence that General Neyland did so well leading our Vols. Leadership is leadership, and development of young men* for performance under difficult conditions is a challenge shared across enterprises.



* and young women, where applicable.
Click to expand...
You know, I've never thought about the part you said about General Neyland before. It does make perfect sense though. If you can get a bunch of young men to believe in you, and follow you in probably the most stressful situation imaginable, then doing it on a football field should be a piece of cake. You're right, it's not a coincidence at all.
 
#24
#24
VFL-82-JP said:
AgentOrange, you are not the first to see parallels between football and war, teams and units, players and soldiers (or marines, if you will). One's a game, the other is deadly serious business, but there are striking similarities, nonetheless.

I've always thought it was not a coincidence that General Neyland did so well leading our Vols. Leadership is leadership, and development of young men* for performance under difficult conditions is a challenge shared across enterprises.



* and young women, where applicable.
Click to expand...


+5 points
 
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