Attrition happens!

#1

roddo518

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#1
I, like many, were beginning to get worried. After scrutinizing, analyzing, and welcoming all these players, we all hate to see any of them go. But for some, it will be in their's and Tennessee's best interest. I wish them a successful career wherever they wind up. I looked in a lot of places on line for info on specific programs attrition, But the info was hard to come by. I guess we know so much about ours due to our informed posters on here. I did come across some national information that stated the average was around 64% attrition in football programs. Meaning that with an average freshman class of 25, you can expect to lose 4 to 5 players from that class per year leaving around 10 seniors fulfilling all four years of eligibility. It has to work that way due to any given time there are five classes on the books fulfilling 85 scholarships.(rs,fr,so,jr, sr). So the class sizes normally:rs 25, fr 21, soph 17, jr 13, and sr 9.
I guess the biggest thing I learned is that this will continue to happen. A class of 34 is huge by any standards, couple that with the quality we have, and there will be some attrition for sure. I also like the fact that CBJ continues to add talent like we have not seen in several years. The ones that will remain will be the best of the best. By the fourth year the classes will have leveled off to normal numbers across the board. It will be nice to have team leadership coming mainly from the 20 to 25 seniors and juniors. A poster asked when depth won't be a problem, that would be my answer. NCs and SECCs then will be within our grasp. My new motto: everyone that wants on, get on, everyone that wants off, get off. This train will be hard to stop once it gets up to speed! GBO!
 
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#2
#2
I, like many, were beginning to get worried. After scrutinizing, analyzing, and welcoming all these players, we all hate to see any of them go. But for some, it will be in their's and Tennessee's best interest. I wish them a successful career wherever they wind up. I looked in a lot of places on line for info on specific programs attrition, But the info was hard to come by. I guess we know so much about ours due to our informed posters on here. I did come across some national information that stated the average was around 64% attrition in football programs. Meaning that with an average freshman class of 25, you can expect to lose 4 to 5 players from that class per year leaving around 10 seniors fulfilling all four years of eligibility. It has to work that way due to any given time there are five classes on the books fulfilling 85 scholarships.(rs,fr,so,jr, sr). So the class sizes normally:rs 25, fr 21, soph 17, jr 13, and sr 9.
I guess the biggest thing I learned is that this will continue to happen. A class of 34 is huge by any standards, couple that with the quality we have, and there will be some attrition for sure. I also like the fact that CBJ continues to add talent like we have not seen in several years. The ones that will remain will be the best of the best. By the fourth year the classes will have leveled off to normal numbers across the board. It will be nice to have team leadership coming mainly from the 20 to 25 seniors and juniors. A poster asked when depth won't be a problem, that would be my answer. NCs and SECCs then will be within our grasp. My new motto: everyone that wants on, get on, everyone that wants off, get off. This train will be hard to stop once it gets up to speed! GBO!

This. Should be required reading!
 
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#4
#4
Are people legitimately worried about this? The title of the thread says it all.

Let's not forget that "mighty Alabama" lost our jewel RB recruit this year to attrition -- Alvin Kamara.
 
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#5
#5
I don't remember any player leaving that made a hugh impact somewhere else
If they can't cut it here they won't someplace else either,let them leave if their
not willing to work and and get better.
 
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#6
#6
I, like many, were beginning to get worried. After scrutinizing, analyzing, and welcoming all these players, we all hate to see any of them go. But for some, it will be in their's and Tennessee's best interest. I wish them a successful career wherever they wind up. I looked in a lot of places on line for info on specific programs attrition, But the info was hard to come by. I guess we know so much about ours due to our informed posters on here. I did come across some national information that stated the average was around 64% attrition in football programs. Meaning that with an average freshman class of 25, you can expect to lose 4 to 5 players from that class per year leaving around 10 seniors fulfilling all four years of eligibility. It has to work that way due to any given time there are five classes on the books fulfilling 85 scholarships.(rs,fr,so,jr, sr). So the class sizes normally:rs 25, fr 21, soph 17, jr 13, and sr 9.
I guess the biggest thing I learned is that this will continue to happen. A class of 34 is huge by any standards, couple that with the quality we have, and there will be some attrition for sure. I also like the fact that CBJ continues to add talent like we have not seen in several years. The ones that will remain will be the best of the best. By the fourth year the classes will have leveled off to normal numbers across the board. It will be nice to have team leadership coming mainly from the 20 to 25 seniors and juniors. A poster asked when depth won't be a problem, that would be my answer. NCs and SECCs then will be within our grasp. My new motto: everyone that wants on, get on, everyone that wants off, get off. This train will be hard to stop once it gets up to speed! GBO!
I'm just curious, and mean no disrespect, but what is your definition of "depth"? As it applies to a position?
 
#8
#8
Are people legitimately worried about this? The title of the thread says it all.

Let's not forget that "mighty Alabama" lost our jewel RB recruit this year to attrition -- Alvin Kamara.

Because they were so stacked they put him at slot WR when he's a natural RB... The problem isn't losing players in general, the problem is losing players that are in our two deep. Karama leaving didn't hurt Bama because Henry was sitting there waiting to play. Losing Hendrix, Scott, and Helm hurts. When you lose players, you usually hope to lose them because they realize they will never play here aka Pat Martin, etc. Hendrix, Scott, and Helm are huge losses.
 
#9
#9
Google may throw out/up some national statistics; doubt CBJ has encountered this type of problem before. In his previous stops, he has not been coaching at the premier, top program in the respective states. UT is the program in the state.

Would CBJ be this successful recruiting at a "lesser" history of a school---maybe not. Star ratings from high school level not absolute indicator of college success or even NFL draft/success. Others with time on hand can google that statistic.

CBJ has previously benefited from waves of transfers in, but not the "attrition" at the SEC level. Moving forward, his recruiting "talk/promises" will level out in consistency and hopefully, his candid assessment of a recruit's UT future will match up with eventual college career.

The splash from high school pond to college must be really tough at times.
 
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#10
#10
Because they were so stacked they put him at slot WR when he's a natural RB... The problem isn't losing players in general, the problem is losing players that are in our two deep. Karama leaving didn't hurt Bama because Henry was sitting there waiting to play. Losing Hendrix, Scott, and Helm hurts. When you lose players, you usually hope to lose them because they realize they will never play here aka Pat Martin, etc. Hendrix, Scott, and Helm are huge losses.

Hendrix? Probably! But not huge! Scott and Helm i don't think were huge losses! But JMO!
 
#11
#11
Because they were so stacked they put him at slot WR when he's a natural RB... The problem isn't losing players in general, the problem is losing players that are in our two deep. Karama leaving didn't hurt Bama because Henry was sitting there waiting to play. Losing Hendrix, Scott, and Helm hurts. When you lose players, you usually hope to lose them because they realize they will never play here aka Pat Martin, etc. Hendrix, Scott, and Helm are huge losses.

I wish we kept every player after each season, but this is ridiculous. None of these players are in the two-deep.

Quantify how "huge" these players leaving is. How many wins are gone in 2015 because of it? If it's truly a "huge" loss, you should be able to estimate it.
 
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#14
#14
Because they were so stacked they put him at slot WR when he's a natural RB... The problem isn't losing players in general, the problem is losing players that are in our two deep. Karama leaving didn't hurt Bama because Henry was sitting there waiting to play. Losing Hendrix, Scott, and Helm hurts. When you lose players, you usually hope to lose them because they realize they will never play here aka Pat Martin, etc. Hendrix, Scott, and Helm are huge losses.

C'mon man, huge losses? Gimme a break. Helm is probably the only one that would have seen any real playing time next year.
 
#16
#16
I'm just curious, and mean no disrespect, but what is your definition of "depth"? As it applies to a position?
I've never ran a college program. I don't know how the 85 scholarships are best divided up by position. A rough estimate would be three deep at every spot. The ideal is to have an assortment of the classes spread out thru the position. In other words, three freshman at rb is not really depth. Depth is having a go to senior or junior, a jr or soph as main backup, and a young fr phenom fighting for playing time behind that. We are not there yet.
 
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#17
#17
I've never ran a college program. I don't know how the 85 scholarships are best divided up by position. A rough estimate would be three deep at every spot. The ideal is to have an assortment of the classes spread out thru the position. In other words, three freshman at rb is not really depth. Depth is having a go to senior, a jr or soph as main backup, and a young phenom fighting for playing time behind that. We are not there yet.

You should talk to some of our negavols here...they have run a major college program! :)

I kid, I kid!
 
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#19
#19
Funny thing is you don't see starters getting "homesick". These players have never had to sit the bench their whole lives and some just cant deal with it. They have been used to being the best athlete on the field and that was enough but now the playing field is even so the ones that work the hardest are the ones that are going to play. Man up!
 
#20
#20
I agree with your opening post Rodo! As you have already seen the anti-Butch crowd will say how this is a HUGE loss and how this is EVIDENCE Butch can't judge talent, etc. I am excited to watch UT football again and watch this team return TN football back to the top of the SEC!
 
#21
#21
I've never ran a college program. I don't know how the 85 scholarships are best divided up by position. A rough estimate would be three deep at every spot. The ideal is to have an assortment of the classes spread out thru the position. In other words, three freshman at rb is not really depth. Depth is having a go to senior, a jr or soph as main backup, and a young phenom fighting for playing time behind that. We are not there yet.
It doesn't have anything to do with the number of total scholarships, because you recruit to your needs. It's not really about numbers in a pure sense. Its about quality through your depth. When someone says "we are thin at DL or our depth at TE is a problem" its not the number of players its the quality of the player as you descend the depth chart. Just having 10 DL's doesn't equate to depth. They are just bodies.

Take our TE situation for example. With Helm gone that leaves us with two players that saw significant playing time. Wolf and Ellis. Ellis is a junior and will be gone after next year. After those two you have a converted Linebacker in Joe Stocstill who has never played a down and AJ Bransiel who tore an ACL and probably will not be ready next year. Then you have Creamer coming off a redshirt. We have one commitment at TE 3* Oliver. And that's it for TE's.

They only recruited one TE in this class because Wolf and Helm were freshman and they figured they could redshirt Oliver and take two next year.

With Helm gone there is no depth after Wolf and Ellis. We have bodies, but no depth. Either one of those guys gets hurt and your playing a redshirt Freshman or burning a redshirt. It's hard to build depth when your having to perpetually plug freshman in.
 
#22
#22
Because they were so stacked they put him at slot WR when he's a natural RB... The problem isn't losing players in general, the problem is losing players that are in our two deep. Karama leaving didn't hurt Bama because Henry was sitting there waiting to play. Losing Hendrix, Scott, and Helm hurts. When you lose players, you usually hope to lose them because they realize they will never play here aka Pat Martin, etc. Hendrix, Scott, and Helm are huge losses.

Hendrix was technically "two-deep"...and had :victory: TACKLES. Helm was behind Ellis and Scott was behind the line of scrimmage...almost...every time he finished...a run. :unsure:

He was in some weird platoon with Pickett towards the end of the season before he got injured...before that, Devrin Young was in front of him. Sorry...can't find the tears.

In summary, one unproductive backup and two third stringers at best ...for those keeping score...before the candlelight vigil.
 
#23
#23
Because they were so stacked they put him at slot WR when he's a natural RB... The problem isn't losing players in general, the problem is losing players that are in our two deep. Karama leaving didn't hurt Bama because Henry was sitting there waiting to play. Losing Hendrix, Scott, and Helm hurts. When you lose players, you usually hope to lose them because they realize they will never play here aka Pat Martin, etc. Hendrix, Scott, and Helm are huge losses.

After I heard the reason that Hendrix said he left was "because of the way the coaches talk to the players" I decided losing him wasn't any big deal. what a candya$$
 
#24
#24
It doesn't have anything to do with the number of total scholarships, because you recruit to your needs. It's not really about numbers in a pure sense. Its about quality through your depth. When someone says "we are thin at DL or our depth at TE is a problem" its not the number of players its the quality of the player as you descend the depth chart. Just having 10 DL's doesn't equate to depth. They are just bodies.

Take our TE situation for example. With Helm gone that leaves us with two players that saw significant playing time. Wolf and Ellis. Ellis is a junior and will be gone after next year. After those two you have a converted Linebacker in Joe Stocstill who has never played a down and AJ Bransiel who tore an ACL and probably will not be ready next year. Then you have Creamer coming off a redshirt. We have one commitment at TE 3* Oliver. And that's it for TE's.

They only recruited one TE in this class because Wolf and Helm were freshman and they figured they could redshirt Oliver and take two next year.

With Helm gone there is no depth after Wolf and Ellis. We have bodies, but no depth. Either one of those guys gets hurt and your playing a redshirt Freshman or burning a redshirt. It's hard to build depth when your having to perpetually plug freshman in.

I agree, but we can't twist his arm and make him stay and be back up to Wolf. Id love for him to stay. The SEC and UT is not Union University. I'm actually more concerned over the transition of quality depth at offensive tackle. (I still think CBJ is gonna surprise us with a Xmas present there). But remember what I said, having 3 fr rbs is not depth at rb. Having two TEs in the same class is not ideal because when they graduate you lose two. I really think Butch is auditioning players to fill the voids of the roster. The ones that stay are the best or depth, the ones that leave are the ones that don't pan out. Each year add quality at the spots. I've seen some chatter on TEs in this class as well.
 
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#25
#25
It doesn't have anything to do with the number of total scholarships, because you recruit to your needs. It's not really about numbers in a pure sense. Its about quality through your depth. When someone says "we are thin at DL or our depth at TE is a problem" its not the number of players its the quality of the player as you descend the depth chart. Just having 10 DL's doesn't equate to depth. They are just bodies.

Take our TE situation for example. With Helm gone that leaves us with two players that saw significant playing time. Wolf and Ellis. Ellis is a junior and will be gone after next year. After those two you have a converted Linebacker in Joe Stocstill who has never played a down and AJ Bransiel who tore an ACL and probably will not be ready next year. Then you have Creamer coming off a redshirt. We have one commitment at TE 3* Oliver. And that's it for TE's.

They only recruited one TE in this class because Wolf and Helm were freshman and they figured they could redshirt Oliver and take two next year.

With Helm gone there is no depth after Wolf and Ellis. We have bodies, but no depth. Either one of those guys gets hurt and your playing a redshirt Freshman or burning a redshirt. It's hard to build depth when your having to perpetually plug freshman in.

How many do you want? We just used one contributor in "98? JF!
 

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