Talent Wins Games- Model

#1
M

Madmartigan

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#1
Howdy Vols! Congrats on an improved season and an upward trending program. Been following you since you put a beat down on my Aggies.

Hitting ya'll up for a favor. I remember one of your posters having developed a nice model showing recruiting talent directly correlating to wins and losses. They conclusion was that superior talent wins 70% of the games. Any of ya'll have that and could share it?
 
#4
#4
The screen name is Daj2576. You'll have to dig through his posts with the search tool.

Yep. According to his model, the more talented team consistent wins 70% of the team without much regard for any other factor.
 
#6
#6
Those 5 star recruits work well for Saban. It makes your job easier as a coach when you have players all over the field who can make plays every down.
 
#7
#7
Now you know why we are so appreciative of CBJ's recruiting efforts. When 70% of your game is getting the right talent on the field and 30% is coaching them up and playcalling - it means that if you are in the top 5 recruiting year after year, even if you are in the 50th percentile coaching, you are a 8-10 win program, even in the SEC. If you are also good at coaching them up, you can win your conference and if you can add to both of those having gameday skills, you compete for the NC.

Recruiting makes programs -> coaching up talent makes conference winners -> game day coaching makes champions (and each one is predicated on the one before it)
 
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#14
#14
It was comical how all Dooley's players were talked about as "high character" "fitting his system" and, lol there were a lot if "diamond in the rough" comments by Vol fans.

With rare exceptions (like Zook) talent always wins. Though I never bought it, talent even made some people think Larry Coker could coach.
 
#15
#15
It was comical how all Dooley's players were talked about as "high character" "fitting his system" and, lol there were a lot if "diamond in the rough" comments by Vol fans.

With rare exceptions (like Zook) talent always wins. Though I never bought it, talent even made some people think Larry Coker could coach.
 
#16
#16
MurphyVol said:
It was comical how all Dooley's players were talked about as "high character" "fitting his system" and, lol there were a lot if "diamond in the rough" comments by Vol fans.

With rare exceptions (like Zook) talent always wins. Though I never bought it, talent even made some people think Larry Coker could coach.
Click to expand...

Murph, this is a fanbase that will grasp onto anything to make them feel better about the state of the program. Better times are coming, for certain...but the "false positives" held onto for the last few years are numerous.
 
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#17
#17
We have a lot of Rudy/walk-on's fans on this board... They are convinced you win championships with these payers
 
#18
#18
Biopsyman said:
We have a lot of Rudy/walk-on's fans on this board... They are convinced you win championships with these payers
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Not true. The Rudy fans unanimously agree we need payers who pay players the amounts bama, barn, etc pay.
 
#19
#19
VolFreakJosh said:
Those 5 star recruits work well for Saban. It makes your job easier as a coach when you have players all over the field who can make plays every down.
Click to expand...

Which came first the egg or the chicken? I can pretty much guarantee that Saban doesn't consult Rivals, 247, or Scout before offering a kid. Like all the others, he has a private recruiting service that collates recruit information for him, profiles recruits, and then probably makes recommendations.

Now the other side of that isn't quite as clear cut. The public recruiting sites DO make some evals of their own based on camps and HS performance. However they ALSO give weight to the opinions of coaches who have demonstrated the ability to find great players.

IOW's, Saban's opinion has more bearing on who Rivals gives 5* to than Rivals giving a kid 5* has on Saban.

Saban gets talent because he has a great recruiting process for finding and landing talented players.
 
#20
#20
Oh, btw, Saban can still coach too. He's an elite recruiter, an elite developer of talent, and a very good game-week/gameday coach.
 
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#22
#22
sjt18 said:
Oh, btw, Saban can still coach too. He's an elite recruiter, an elite developer of talent, and a very good game-week/gameday coach.
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Yeah, people like to overlook how quickly Saban turns around a program. SEC Championship in his 2nd year at LSU, 12 wins in his 2nd year at Alabama. Certainly, he was doing it with young recruited talent, but also with talent leftover from the previous coach, who couldn't win with that talent.

People here seem to think every coach is essentially Larry Coker, just an average guy counting on a windfall of talent to make them look good. Seems better to have a guy like Freeze or Franklin who can coach up the talent they have while they bring in more .
 
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#23
#23
Seems that many take an "either or" position. Either you accept the premise that it is all about the "Jimmie's and Joe's" or else you don't think recruiting/talent are important.

Finding talent is ALWAYS important but so is what the coach does with whatever talent he has. Saban recruits and coaches well. Meyer to this point is a weaker recruiter than coach. Richt is a better recruiter than coach.

To get to where I personally would like to see UT get... you need a great recruiter who can coach at an elite level. Most of my arguments seem to be with people satisfied with far... FAR less.
 
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#25
#25
VolFreakJosh said:
Those 5 star recruits work well for Saban. It makes your job easier as a coach when you have players all over the field who can make plays every down.
Click to expand...

Yeah but when you dedicate yourself to improving your craft, hire people whose strengths complement your weaknesses, hold them to a high standard while trusting them, and THEN add a two deep of five stars, THEN you get Alabama. Otherwise you're just Texas.
 
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