SEC Defensive Schemes (4-3 / 4-2-5 vs 3-4)

#1
DiderotsGhost

DiderotsGhost

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#1
Curious if anyone here can detail the defensive schemes of the other SEC schools? I'm interested to know the differences in style and how it might impact the recruits each school goes after.

For instance, I know Georgia and Alabama run the 3-4 defense. It appears that Vanderbilt is switching to the 3-4, as well. Also read a few articles that suggest (with some ambiguity) that South Carolina might incorporate the 3-4 this year.

There was a 2012 article on the Alabama SBNation site that detailed all the SEC schools, but it appears things have already changed significantly in the last two years.

The Changing Nature of SEC Defenses (2012)

For example, we obviously dropped the 3-4 last year, and reverted back to the 4-3. We experienced significant issues in 2012 as we switched defenses. Think you can argue that we also experienced some "growing pains" last year reverting back to the 4-3, as some of our personnel lacked ideal speed for the scheme.

The recruitment of OLB Quarte Sapp got me thinking about this, because it would appear that he's better suited to the 4-3 than the 3-4, and I assume a lot of players are better for one or the other. Part of what I'm wondering is if more and more schools switch to the 3-4, will it give us a competitive advantage in recruiting some of the kids that are better suited for the 4-3?

Would love to learn more from some of our knowledgeable posters on this! Which SEC schools run schemes most similar to ours? Which SEC schools are very different? What are the main differences when it comes to recruiting?
 
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#2
#2
When schools switch schemes it's usually not because it's going to attract recruits, it's because either they're defensive coaching staff is more knowledgable in one scheme, or their personel fits a certain scheme better.

As for recruiting yeah, it plays a big part for certain players but overall I don't think it's an overall huge advantage/disadvantage. I think for te most part, these kids can fit somewhere in both schemes.
 
#4
#4
3-4 obviously has its growing pains ..georgia went through it and we suffered hugely that one ill fated year (2012). So does that mean we can expect SCjr to be in some debacle and put that in 'W' column in our record ?
 
#5
#5
Thought Jawja was converting to the 4-3 under Pruitt?
 
#6
#6
We run a 4-3. It's a basic defense. We want to implement a 4-2-5 hybrid defense on passing downs as well. You will probably see Maggit or Weatherd line up as a weak side DE but will be standing up. Some people call this the LEO position; however, a true LEO defense is ran with a SDE that could play as a 3 technique DT. We will most likely play very small this year especially up the middle. We should be very agile but will probably be susceptible to big runs up the middle. AJ will have to cover the A gap on run plays very well or we could be in big trouble.

In a 3-4 you basically have two MLB. You will also have a pass rusher refered to as a Jack LB. The 3-4 is made to really force plays outside. When ran right it's usually very hard to run up the middle on, but when you spread it out you can create matchup problems as LBs and S will have to guard slot WRs. The 3-4 IMO is best servered for teams who can consistently recruit top DT, CBs, MLB, and cover S/OLBs. Thats why we got creamed trying to play the 3-4 because we didn't have the players for it, and Sal wrote all his plays in crayon. The 3-4 is a great defense that can create huge pass rush, but it can really be exposed if you have a great spread offense. That's why you have seen Bama start to recruit more athletic DEs and OLBs to compensate for the new trend toward spread offenses.
 
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#9
#9
KingtUT said:
4-2-5 = nickel IMO.
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To my understanding, 4-2-5 and Nickel differ in that Nickel replaces a Linebacker with an extra Cornerback, while the 4-2-5 adds an extra Safety. The 4-2-5 is designed more explicitly to deal with the spread.
 
#10
#10
DiderotsGhost said:
To my understanding, 4-2-5 and Nickel differ in that Nickel replaces a Linebacker with an extra Cornerback, while the 4-2-5 adds an extra Safety. The 4-2-5 is designed more explicitly to deal with the spread.
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The 4-2-5 with the safety is sometimes called the star defense. Aurburn runs this defense, and the "star" position is the S/OLB that plays the WLB/CB role. IMO, I could totally be wrong, when I hear nickel defense I always assume 3 CB unless otherwise stated.
 
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#12
#12
Most of the "3-4" teams, such as Alabama and Georgia really run a 4-3 (nickel) defense the majority of the team. Saban himself has said that even though Alabama runs a 3-4 base they actually line up in the 4-3 about 75% of the time.
 
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#13
#13
volstopfan14 said:
Most of the "3-4" teams, such as Alabama and Georgia really run a 4-3 (nickel) defense the majority of the team. Saban himself has said that even though Alabama runs a 3-4 base they actually line up in the 4-3 about 75% of the time.
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This is correct; however, Bama just started doing this within the last 2-3 years. They can't contain the edge when facing spread teams like Aurburn when running the 3-4. They soon won't have this problem because Bama has began to recruit much faster DL and OLBs. It's really sickening to watch Bama have the ability to alternate the way they play and recruit and never miss a beat on the field. When you are disappointed in 12-2 seasons you know you are on a different level then most programs. I just hope all Vol fans remember how crappy it feels to have suffered through the last 4-5 years so that when we get to winning 10+ games year in and year out and then drop off one season to 8-9 wins we don't grip and complain. 8-9 wins sounds really good right now.
 
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#16
#16
GAVol said:
He does a little bit of everything.
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Pruitt will be the sole reason Richt keeps his job at UGA another 10 years, and also for the rise of UGA in the SEC. I believe the East by 2016 will be a three way battle between us and UGA with FL right behind in a very close 3rd. Another interesting note to think about here, I heard Finebaum doing his SEC radio show :yuck: and an UGA fan called in saying Richt should be fired if UGA didn't go to the national championship this year. Now that's a bit much, but I do feel that UGA fans are on edge about all the talent they have had and still not a single NCAA championship appearance to show for it. Richt gets the least out of the most talent in the SEC East year in and year out. UGA has no excuse to not be a top 10 team year in and year out considering all the talent in their back yard every year. Unfortunately, I believe Pruitt will transform UGA into a top 20 defense in the country within a few years, and when he does UGA will be very hard to beat, especially if they keep recruiting RBs, WRs, and QBs like they have in the past.
 
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#17
#17
keckjm said:
This is correct; however, Bama just started doing this within the last 2-3 years. They can't contain the edge when facing spread teams like Aurburn when running the 3-4. They soon won't have this problem because Bama has began to recruit much faster DL and OLBs. It's really sickening to watch Bama have the ability to alternate the way they play and recruit and never miss a beat on the field. When you are disappointed in 12-2 seasons you know you are on a different level then most programs. I just hope all Vol fans remember how crappy it feels to have suffered through the last 4-5 years so that when we get to winning 10+ games year in and year out and then drop off one season to 8-9 wins we don't grip and complain. 8-9 wins sounds really good right now.
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That's exactly why I didn't complain like many thru the 00s @ Fulmer. I still had the pain of 70s and early 80s. Many were complaining like an atrocity happened in the 90s when we would lose every 10th game. Nuts.
 
#18
#18
keckjm said:
Pruitt will be the sole reason Richt keeps his job at UGA another 10 years, and also for the rise of UGA in the SEC. I believe the East by 2016 will be a two way battle between us and UGA with FL right behind in a very close 3rd. Another interesting note to think about here, I heard Finebaum doing his SEC radio show :yuck: and an UGA fan called in saying Richt should be fired if UGA didn't go to the national championship this year. Now that's a bit much, but I do feel that UGA fans are on edge about all the talent they have had and still not a single NCAA championship appearance to show for it. Richt gets the least out of the most talent in the SEC East year in and year out. UGA has no excuse to not be a top 10 team year in and year out considering all the talent in their back yard every year. Unfortunately, I believe Pruitt will transform UGA into a top 20 defense in the country within a few years, and when he does UGA will be very hard to beat, especially if they keep recruiting RBs, WRs, and QBs like they have in the past.
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They generally are top 10. If the roster is loaded, then CMR should be the primary one getting the credit. 2/3 of college coaching is recruiting. Somehow when people want a coach fired they use failed seasons in comparison to the talent available. Calling the talent "UGAs" and then seperating out CMRs lackluster results is simply dishonest.

Vol fans pridefully demmanded titles for years with CPF. After 5 illustrious years of the Hambone Experiment this fanbase has become much more humble in regards to expectations. Much more. See 2014 hopes and expectations.

Like most current UT fans since 08-13, thinking and seasoned UGA fans have the taste of Goff and Donnan fresh in their mouths. They realize how easy it is to have weak field coaching AND low levels of talent. Dooleyesque.
 
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#19
#19
keckjm said:
Pruitt will be the sole reason Richt keeps his job at UGA another 10 years, and also for the rise of UGA in the SEC. I believe the East by 2016 will be a two way battle between us and UGA with FL right behind in a very close 3rd. Another interesting note to think about here, I heard Finebaum doing his SEC radio show :yuck: and an UGA fan called in saying Richt should be fired if UGA didn't go to the national championship this year. Now that's a bit much, but I do feel that UGA fans are on edge about all the talent they have had and still not a single NCAA championship appearance to show for it. Richt gets the least out of the most talent in the SEC East year in and year out. UGA has no excuse to not be a top 10 team year in and year out considering all the talent in their back yard every year. Unfortunately, I believe Pruitt will transform UGA into a top 20 defense in the country within a few years, and when he does UGA will be very hard to beat, especially if they keep recruiting RBs, WRs, and QBs like they have in the past.
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I hope Richt continues to do enough to keep his job at Georgia for as long as he wants it. Richt's ceiling is competing for an SEC title and occasionally winning one, and that's only when he has a supremely talented team (think 2008, 2011, and 2012).

He had first round NFL draft picks at QB and RB in 2008 and still couldn't win the SEC. As long as he keeps doing that, he'll never be at risk (from Tennessee's perspective) at forming some kind of dynasty at Georgia where he begins rattling off multiple conference titles and getting every major in-state recruit.
 
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#22
#22
05_never_again said:
I hope Richt continues to do enough to keep his job at Georgia for as long as he wants it. Richt's ceiling is competing for an SEC title and occasionally winning one, and that's only when he has a supremely talented team (think 2008, 2011, and 2012).

He had first round NFL draft picks at QB and RB in 2008 and still couldn't win the SEC. As long as he keeps doing that, he'll never be at risk (from Tennessee's perspective) at forming some kind of dynasty at Georgia where he begins rattling off multiple conference titles and getting every major in-state recruit.
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I agree with you 100%, but it's going to take us another 2-3 years to really compete year in and year out. I do think GA is going to greatly improve because of Pruitt. Not only will he help them recruit players, the man knows how to coach and win big games, something GA can't do. GA is going to come out of the East their fair share of times over the next few years. I think USCjr will have their time this year and GA should be very good in 2015 defense wise. Once 2016 is here I think it's a three team race, and whoever has the best QB will probably have the edge IMO. Our defense should be top 25 by 2016. We should be stacked in every position on defense, and hopefully we will have a very good QB by then as well. 2016 is the year I expect true results from CBJ. For now, I'm just ready to watch some power T football no matter the end result.
 
#24
#24
keckjm said:
Pruitt will be the sole reason Richt keeps his job at UGA another 10 years, and also for the rise of UGA in the SEC. I believe the East by 2016 will be a three way battle between us and UGA with FL right behind in a very close 3rd. Another interesting note to think about here, I heard Finebaum doing his SEC radio show :yuck: and an UGA fan called in saying Richt should be fired if UGA didn't go to the national championship this year. Now that's a bit much, but I do feel that UGA fans are on edge about all the talent they have had and still not a single NCAA championship appearance to show for it. Richt gets the least out of the most talent in the SEC East year in and year out. UGA has no excuse to not be a top 10 team year in and year out considering all the talent in their back yard every year. Unfortunately, I believe Pruitt will transform UGA into a top 20 defense in the country within a few years, and when he does UGA will be very hard to beat, especially if they keep recruiting RBs, WRs, and QBs like they have in the past.
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I agree with you about Pruitt, keckjm. Except, I do think if Pruitt lives up to the hype, he'll be a head coach somewhere soon.

Richt doesn't have a national title, but he had the best team in the nation back in 2002. It's just that the BCS system disfavored SEC teams with tough schedules, and pitted Miami vs Ohio State in the championship game (both coasting against weak competition), rather than UGA vs. USC (which were probably the top two teams).

Richt's Achilles Heel has been his defenses. He had a few great defenses in his early years under VanGorder. He's seen a perpetual slide since then. But Pruitt looks good!

Unfortunately, it's difficult to know why Richt's defenses have been poor in recent years. Is it Richt's fault or did he hire weak coordinators? Was there a culture clash? I don't really know, but we've seen it here at UT how sometimes, good coordinators don't seem to do well under certain coaches. No other way to explain how Dave Clawson has looked like very good everywhere else but looked awful in his year at UT.
 
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