Remember This One Fact

#1
TNHopeful505

TNHopeful505

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#1
Let's start here:

2008 Recruiting Class: Coach Fulmer's Last Class

18 players in class.

Approximately 12 finished their careers at UT. Approximately 8 of the 12 received meaningful playing time.

2008 Recruiting Class Retainment: -6

2009 Recruiting Class: Coach Kiffin's First Class

22 players in class

Approximately 5 have/will finish their career at UT.
Those 5? Daniel Hood, Greg King, Zach Rogers, Marsalis Teague, Marlon Walls (who was in the 2008 class too, so he may not count).

2009 Recruiting Class Retainment: -17, -23 players total

2010 Recruiting Class: Partially Coach Kiffin / Dooley's first.

27 players in class

Approximately 14 will/have graduate from UT.
Those 15: Greg Clark, Crump, Fulton, James, Miller, Neal, Palardy, Pair, Propst, Rivera, Simms, Sapp, Jacques Smith, Stone.

2010 Recruiting Class Retainment: -13, -36 players total

2011 Recruiting Class: Coach Dooley's First Full Class

27 players in class

Approximately 24 players have/will graduate from UT

2011 Recruiting Class Retainment: -3, -39 players total

2012 Recruiting Class: Dooley's Second Class

22 Players in class

Approximately 14 of them may graduate from UT.

2012 Recruiting Class Retainment: -8, -47 players total.

2013 Recruiting Class: Coach Dooley/Butch Jones

22 players in class:

21 Players are still enrolled (Jabo Lee exception)

2013 Recruiting Class Retainment: -1, -48 players total.


So the point? We have an 85 man roster. We've supposedly given out 85 scholarships. And of those, 48 of them are gone. And of course, we can only backcount and fill the classes so much now, thanks to Mr. Slive, so we can't expect to just catch up in two years.

While it's a great thing to lose players early to the NFL like Hunter, Bray, Patterson, Sentimore, it's also hurtful to a roster.

We are a SEVERELY decimated roster, and people need to understand that this is not just Dooley's fault, but Fulmer's, Kiffin's, and Dooley's. This is about recruiting kids that are going to play well, and stick it out for 3-4 years. It's about recruiting kids that aren't going to rob Pilots, or get caught on drugs, or stealing laptops.

We're in the SEC. We can only sign a few players every year. It's going to take us at least 3-4 years to catch up. Every year, we lose about 15-20 players, and we bring in 25. IF all of those players stick, then it would take us about 3-4 + years to get back.

BE PATIENT. Give Butch time. He's doing it the right way. It's going to be a long road. But we're going to get there.

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully, it will help you see what this man is working with. It's a culmination of many many fails in recruiting and on the field.
 
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#2
#2
TNHopeful505 said:
Let's start here:

2008 Recruiting Class: Coach Fulmer's Last Class

18 players in class.

Approximately 12 finished their careers at UT. Approximately 8 of the 12 received meaningful playing time.

2008 Recruiting Class Retainment: -6

2009 Recruiting Class: Coach Kiffin's First Class

22 players in class

Approximately 5 have/will finish their career at UT.
Those 5? Daniel Hood, Greg King, Zach Rogers, Marsalis Teague, Marlon Walls (who was in the 2008 class too, so he may not count).

2009 Recruiting Class Retainment: -17, -23 players total

2010 Recruiting Class: Partially Coach Kiffin / Dooley's first.

27 players in class

Approximately 14 will/have graduate from UT.
Those 15: Greg Clark, Crump, Fulton, James, Miller, Neal, Palardy, Pair, Propst, Rivera, Simms, Sapp, Jacques Smith, Stone.

2010 Recruiting Class Retainment: -13, -36 players total

2011 Recruiting Class: Coach Dooley's First Full Class

27 players in class

Approximately 24 players have/will graduate from UT

2011 Recruiting Class Retainment: -3, -39 players total

2012 Recruiting Class: Dooley's Second Class

22 Players in class

Approximately 14 of them may graduate from UT.

2012 Recruiting Class Retainment: -8, -47 players total.

2013 Recruiting Class: Coach Dooley/Butch Jones

22 players in class:

21 Players are still enrolled (Jabo Lee exception)

2013 Recruiting Class Retainment: -1, -48 players total.


So the point? We have an 85 man roster. We've supposedly given out 85 scholarships. And of those, 48 of them are gone. And of course, we can only backcount and fill the classes so much now, thanks to Mr. Slive, so we can't expect to just catch up in two years.

While it's a great thing to lose players early to the NFL like Hunter, Bray, Patterson, Sentimore, it's also hurtful to a roster.

We are a SEVERELY decimated roster, and people need to understand that this is not just Dooley's fault, but Fulmer's, Kiffin's, and Dooley's. This is about recruiting kids that are going to play well, and stick it out for 3-4 years. It's about recruiting kids that aren't going to rob Pilots, or get caught on drugs, or stealing laptops.

We're in the SEC. We can only sign a few players every year. It's going to take us at least 3-4 years to catch up. Every year, we lose about 15-20 players, and we bring in 25. IF all of those players stick, then it would take us about 3-4 + years to get back.

BE PATIENT. Give Butch time. He's doing it the right way. It's going to be a long road. But we're going to get there.

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully, it will help you see what this man is working with. It's a culmination of many many fails in recruiting and on the field.
Click to expand...


You forgot about vandalizing cars with beer bottles
 
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#3
#3
I'm not arguing that butch will get it done here only time will tell and I will start to judge him going in to year 3 unless there is some kind of epic meltdown. But I do think it's crazy that only 3 short years ago people were making these same exact arguments for Dooley. Not bashing your thread just saying its crazy how similar the arguments are
 
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#5
#5
Volsfaninva917 said:
I'm not arguing that butch will get it done here only time will tell and I will start to judge him going in to year 3 unless there is some kind of epic meltdown. But I do think it's crazy that only 3 short years ago people were making these same exact arguments for Dooley. Not bashing your thread just saying its crazy how similar the arguments are
Click to expand...

What's sad is that Dooley did NOTHING to leave UT better than he found it. Yes he had some good players like Bray and Hunter and Johnson, but nothing behind them. Saban has good players but he also recruited right behind and sometimes over them.
 
#6
#6
TNHopeful505 said:
What's sad is that Dooley did NOTHING to leave UT better than he found it. Yes he had some good players like Bray and Hunter and Johnson, but nothing behind them. Saban has good players but he also recruited right behind and sometimes over them.
Click to expand...

That first sentence is fact, that guy pissed off everyone he spoke too and made enemies here from day one
 
#9
#9
Volsfaninva917 said:
I'm not arguing that butch will get it done here only time will tell and I will start to judge him going in to year 3 unless there is some kind of epic meltdown. But I do think it's crazy that only 3 short years ago people were making these same exact arguments for Dooley. Not bashing your thread just saying its crazy how similar the arguments are
Click to expand...

They are the same comments but the bright spot is CBJ has at least won in his 2nd and 3rd year as a coach every where he has went. CBJ has never had a great first season as a head coach in his 6 years of coaching. Someone on here did bring up a valid point though last night which was for us to be really excited come 2014 CBJ is going to have to beat a team he wasn't supposed to by the end of this year. Great coaches find ways to take lesser talent and make them good enough to win 5-7 games in a tough schedule. I'll be extremely happy if we finish the year 6-6, but if CBJ wants to really energize this program I think he needs to win 7 games, and try to finish the last 4 games 4-0. It probably won't happen, but from where I'm standing a 7-5 record and a bowl game would be like us winning the Rose Bowl this year. Auburn and Vandy would be huge wins for us this year, and games we shouldn't be favored to win. I guess we will see what happens, but as long as a total meltdown like last year doesn't happen I'm going to be pumped for the future with CBJ, especially with the 2014 class we have coming in.
 
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#10
#10
The University of Tennessee is the real recruiting tool, even an average recruiter can pull top 20 classes just by pointing out the UT advantages. And many schools have really good teams and records with top 20 recruiting classes. Coaching makes the most difference in practice and on the field, not recruiting. At this point I have nothing to convince we have a top ranked coaching staff, especially the Oregon game. Hopefully that will change.
 
#11
#11
utvolkyle06 said:
The University of Tennessee is the real recruiting tool, even an average recruiter can pull top 20 classes just by pointing out the UT advantages. And many schools have really good teams and records with top 20 recruiting classes. Coaching makes the most difference in practice and on the field, not recruiting. At this point I have nothing to convince we have a top ranked coaching staff, especially the Oregon game. Hopefully that will change.
Click to expand...

I agree, but you have to give CBJ and staff credit. CBJ has had to mend relationships with lot of people here. He's got top recruits to look at us when they came out a year ago and said no way to us. CBJ has rebranded UT with new jerseys, slangs like team 117 and brick by brick, and by bringing back former great VFLs. The man wants to be here a long time, and he's doing everything in his power to sell UT, and yes you do have to sell UT giving the status of our program these days.
 
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#12
#12
keckjm said:
I agree, but you have to give CBJ and staff credit. CBJ has had to mend relationships with lot of people here. He's got top recruits to look at us when they came out a year ago and said no way to us. CBJ has rebranded UT with new jerseys, slangs like team 117 and brick by brick, and by bringing back former great VFLs. The man wants to be here a long time, and he's doing everything in his power to sell UT, and yes you do have to sell UT giving the status of our program these days.
Click to expand...

I will respectively disagree until proven wrong. Yes PR is important, but so is actual coaching.
 
#14
#14
utvolkyle06 said:
The University of Tennessee is the real recruiting tool, even an average recruiter can pull top 20 classes just by pointing out the UT advantages. And many schools have really good teams and records with top 20 recruiting classes. Coaching makes the most difference in practice and on the field, not recruiting. At this point I have nothing to convince we have a top ranked coaching staff, especially the Oregon game. Hopefully that will change.
Click to expand...

What you are saying is not true.
 
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#15
#15
utvolkyle06 said:
I will respectively disagree until proven wrong. Yes PR is important, but so is actual coaching.
Click to expand...

Coaching is the key and no one with a brain will disagree with you. I guess what my point was is that CBJ is at least selling all he has to offer here at UT and it seems to be working. I think the questionable playing calling was a true reflection of not trusting the players on the field. Until CBJ can develop Riley and Dobbs for next year, I'm going to hold my judgement as much as possible on the run option, except on 3rd and 1 and we run screen plays which is unacceptable.
 
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#17
#17
I think Coach addressed the lack of depth in the post presser. I think it is interesting he did not make an excuses but said they had to do two things; 1. Recruit & 2. Develop the players he has now. We played the number 2 team in the country and most likely the fastest offense and we were overwhelmed. Our lack of talent is obvious so what do fans expect? I am thankful for a coach who is going to teach and demand excellence even if you are not a five star recruit.
 
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#19
#19
Right now the only difference between Butch and Dooley is that Butch had previous winning records as a coach so now all the Vols nuts know there is no "magic man". We'll see how it plays out from here....but know that we are athlete challenged as compared to the LSU's, Bama and SC's of the world
 
#20
#20
keckjm said:
They are the same comments but the bright spot is CBJ has at least won in his 2nd and 3rd year as a coach every where he has went. CBJ has never had a great first season as a head coach in his 6 years of coaching. Someone on here did bring up a valid point though last night which was for us to be really excited come 2014 CBJ is going to have to beat a team he wasn't supposed to by the end of this year. Great coaches find ways to take lesser talent and make them good enough to win 5-7 games in a tough schedule. I'll be extremely happy if we finish the year 6-6, but if CBJ wants to really energize this program I think he needs to win 7 games, and try to finish the last 4 games 4-0. It probably won't happen, but from where I'm standing a 7-5 record and a bowl game would be like us winning the Rose Bowl this year. Auburn and Vandy would be huge wins for us this year, and games we shouldn't be favored to win. I guess we will see what happens, but as long as a total meltdown like last year doesn't happen I'm going to be pumped for the future with CBJ, especially with the 2014 class we have coming in.
Click to expand...

This I think he has to win 7 games.total including or excluding the bowl. If that happens I will be happy if less than that I say the staff underachieved...IMO


He has to have a statement game also that fans can say with better talent we r going to be OK.
 
#21
#21
Thanks for posting the attrition numbers as they confirm what a lot of us already knew. I think CBJ is doing the best he can and knew this was coming. I don't quite understand people judging the coaching staff based on one game, especially considering how outmatched we were.

It's been said on here a million times since the day we hired Kiffin, that this is going to take some time, to truly rebuild that is. The Fulmer debate has been beat to death, but the fact is he's gone. The Kiffin fiasco burned as bad and Dooley was basically like a carpet bagger in the ruins, as he may have hurt worse in some ways. I don't know about you guys, but I'm tired of changing coaches/ coordinators. I'm tired of seeing my team lose, and I can't stand how divided this fanbase continues to be. Just support him. Recruiting and is what its going to take but we're going to have to beat someone with a subpar roster. The only other advantage that we could improvise is conditioning, which, IMO, is the difference between teams like Bama and UGA, as in Bama develops their talent and UGA more or less preserves their talent.
 
#22
#22
People need to stop looking for excuses. We got whooped yesterday, to the point of embarassment. Like it or not, the ball falls at Butch's feet. If/when he pulls off an upset, he'll get credit for that too. Good or bad, he's the head man so he'll get the praise or the criticism.
 
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#23
#23
Vol4life25 said:
Why did you go back 6 classes??

Wtf does Fulmers class have to do with THIS team?
Click to expand...

To show that when the coaches starting changing, attrition picked up. When attrition started picking up, the rules changed and we could no longer keep up, since we could only sign 25 or so. We started building on that deficit but i took it from coaching changes. It was a snowball

And it is not just starting this year that we have had this problem. We have had a depth problem since 08'
 
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#24
#24
Some fans need to come down from the clouds and stop predicting upsets against much better opponents. Reality is we are currently a mediocre football team. Hyping ourselves to be more than that is just begging to be disappointed.
 
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#25
#25
Our fans will always be divided those who see things as they are and those who believe we will be champions overnight.
 
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