For Those Who Are Questioning Barnes Recruiting?

#1

VolFreakJosh

“Don’t you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby!”
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#1
Let me ask you an important question. Bruce Pearl brought talent in while he was here at Tennessee. There's plenty of UT fans who would trade Barnes for Pearl in a heartbeat. I will give him credit for bringing in energy and excitment to this program but let me get to the point. Barnes isn't recruiting on the same level as Pearl right now but how is it that Pearl has yet to make the NCAA Tournament and loses to Barnes with more talent? We talk about Barnes vs Pearl all the time, it's basically a war. I've been very critical of Barnes at times, we all have at some point but he's done a good job scouting players that fit his system. Williams, Fulkerson, Bone, Phillips, Turner are all young players but talented.

I honestly believe we make the NCAA Tournament this year because all the pieces are there. Recruiting 4* and 5* talent isn't very important if you can't catch coach or develop them. Pearl is struggling with that right now at Auburn. So would you rather have a coach who can't win with top notch talent or would you rather have a good X's & O's coach who can develop players in Barnes?
 
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#2
#2
Let me ask you an important question. Bruce Pearl brought talent in while he was here at Tennessee. There's plenty of UT fans who would trade Barnes for Pearl in a heartbeat. I will give him credit for bringing in energy and excitment to this program but let me get to the point. Barnes isn't recruiting on the same level as Pearl right now but how is it that Pearl has yet to make the NCAA Tournament and loses to Barnes with more talent? We talk about Barnes vs Pearl all the time, it's basically a war. I've been very critical of Barnes at times, we all have at some point but he's done a good job scouting players that fit his system. Williams, Fulkerson, Bone, Phillips, Turner are all young players but talented.

I honestly believe we make the NCAA Tournament this year because all the pieces are there. Recruiting 4* and 5* talent isn't very important if you can't catch coach or develop them. Pearl is struggling with that right now at Auburn. So would you rather have a coach who can't win with top notch talent or would you rather have a good X's & O's coach who can develop players in Barnes?

I don't want either of them. Barnes has no fire in his belly; as for Pearl, well, you just can't put Humpty back together again.
 
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#3
#3
Let me ask you an important question. Bruce Pearl brought talent in while he was here at Tennessee. There's plenty of UT fans who would trade Barnes for Pearl in a heartbeat. I will give him credit for bringing in energy and excitment to this program but let me get to the point. Barnes isn't recruiting on the same level as Pearl right now but how is it that Pearl has yet to make the NCAA Tournament and loses to Barnes with more talent? We talk about Barnes vs Pearl all the time, it's basically a war. I've been very critical of Barnes at times, we all have at some point but he's done a good job scouting players that fit his system. Williams, Fulkerson, Bone, Phillips, Turner are all young players but talented.

I honestly believe we make the NCAA Tournament this year because all the pieces are there. Recruiting 4* and 5* talent isn't very important if you can't catch coach or develop them. Pearl is struggling with that right now at Auburn. So would you rather have a coach who can't win with top notch talent or would you rather have a good X's & O's coach who can develop players in Barnes?

Pearl is not succeeding because his staff at Auburn didnt have Forbes or Shay but it has Steven Pearl.

Not much more complex than that....
 
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#5
#5
Let me ask you an important question. Bruce Pearl brought talent in while he was here at Tennessee. There's plenty of UT fans who would trade Barnes for Pearl in a heartbeat. I will give him credit for bringing in energy and excitment to this program but let me get to the point. Barnes isn't recruiting on the same level as Pearl right now but how is it that Pearl has yet to make the NCAA Tournament and loses to Barnes with more talent? We talk about Barnes vs Pearl all the time, it's basically a war. I've been very critical of Barnes at times, we all have at some point but he's done a good job scouting players that fit his system. Williams, Fulkerson, Bone, Phillips, Turner are all young players but talented.

I honestly believe we make the NCAA Tournament this year because all the pieces are there. Recruiting 4* and 5* talent isn't very important if you can't catch coach or develop them. Pearl is struggling with that right now at Auburn. So would you rather have a coach who can't win with top notch talent or would you rather have a good X's & O's coach who can develop players in Barnes?

This x 1000
 
#6
#6
We are in a great position with Barnes... He will continue to build and add stability to the program. The coach we hire after him will either take us to the next level, or he will kick us back into irrelevance!
 
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#7
#7
There is a reason why nobody has ever said Pearl doesn't give a damn--which seems to be many fan's opinion of Barnes.

Auburn lost 7 out of their last 10 and still won 18 games last season.

Their top 4 scorers were true freshman.

According to rivals they have the 18th best incoming class.

Safe to say the outlook for that program is a tad brighter than ours.
 
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#9
#9
There is a reason why nobody has ever said Pearl doesn't give a damn--which seems to be many fan's opinion of Barnes.

Auburn lost 7 out of their last 10 and still won 18 games last season.

Their top 4 scorers were true freshman.

According to rivals they have the 18th best incoming class.

Safe to say the outlook for that program is a tad brighter than ours.

If we played their pre-SEC schedule we'd have over 20 wins. Their OOC schedule was a joke which is why at 18-14 they still didn't even get an NIT invite.

And why is it that much brighter? Pearl has had great classes his whole time there, yet after 3 years he hasn't even made the NIT. I see nothing to show me he's going to actually do anything with the talent he brings in, especially if they keep leaving or getting kicked off.

If anything, it's more of an indictment against Pearl that he's had plenty of talent and still isn't winning. To put it another way, I doubt many would be praising Barnes if he recruited like Pearl and after 3 years didn't make the NCAAT.
 
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#11
#11
There is a reason why nobody has ever said Pearl doesn't give a damn--which seems to be many fan's opinion of Barnes.

Auburn lost 7 out of their last 10 and still won 18 games last season.

Their top 4 scorers were true freshman.

According to rivals they have the 18th best incoming class.

Safe to say the outlook for that program is a tad brighter than ours.

What did their non-conference schedule look like compared to ours? Also, I don't care what ranking last season's freshman class had on paper. Based on performance, we had one of the best freshman classes in the country (at least that is still going to be mostly intact next season).
 
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#12
#12
If we played their pre-SEC schedule we'd have over 20 wins. Their OOC schedule was a joke which is why at 18-14 they still didn't even get an NIT invite.

And why is it that much brighter? Pearl has had great classes his whole time there, yet after 3 years he hasn't even made the NIT. I see nothing to show me he's going to actually do anything with the talent he brings in, especially if they keep leaving or getting kicked off.

If anything, it's more of an indictment against Pearl that he's had plenty of talent and still isn't winning. To put it another way, I doubt many would be praising Barnes if he recruited like Pearl and after 3 years didn't make the NCAAT.

All valid points, but we can agree to disagree on a few of those points. Admittedly a lot of my admiration for Bruce Pearl is sentimental, but we're all lying if we act like we don't long for the days of CJ Watson, Chris Lofton, Jajuan Smith, Tyler Smith, etc, etc. hanging up 100 points in TBA a few times a year and owning Florida, Memphis, Kevin Durant and others.

While I understand your points and I think a lot of what you said is true, many of the reasons why Pearl has been slow to get that program off the ground are issues that could happen anywhere.

Recruits don't always pan out, that happens anywhere you go. Robert Hubbs and Scotty Hopson were both 5 star McDonald's All American finalists, yet most would consider their time at UT to be disappointing relative to exepectations.

Being that most incoming freshman are 17-19 (or 15 if you're Butch Jones in a post game presser) immaturity is not an uncommon reason for guys to leave the program whether it be on their own or for academic/disciplinary reasons. Detrick Mostella, Dom Woodson, Tyler Smith, Major Wingate and Ramar Smith were all, at the very minimum, contributors--and in a few cases team leaders. These guys were all kicked off the team within the last 10 years or so, does that mean we run a dirty program? I personally don't think so.

In regards to their non conference schedule being weak, I completely agree. But one thing I will say is that you don't schedule teams like UConn 2-3 years in advance with the expectation that they'll have a down year. That's a powerhouse opponent who just happened to have a down year. Same for Oklahoma. And last time I checked Purdue was pretty darn solid this year.

Bottom line Bruce's top 4 returning scorers are rising sophomores and he has a top 20 class coming in. He's off to a slow start, but it's not like he isn't out busting his ass on the recruiting trail making sure next year is better.
 
#14
#14
All valid points, but we can agree to disagree on a few of those points. Admittedly a lot of my admiration for Bruce Pearl is sentimental, but we're all lying if we act like we don't long for the days of CJ Watson, Chris Lofton, Jajuan Smith, Tyler Smith, etc, etc. hanging up 100 points in TBA a few times a year and owning Florida, Memphis, Kevin Durant and others.

While I understand your points and I think a lot of what you said is true, many of the reasons why Pearl has been slow to get that program off the ground are issues that could happen anywhere.

Recruits don't always pan out, that happens anywhere you go. Robert Hubbs and Scotty Hopson were both 5 star McDonald's All American finalists, yet most would consider their time at UT to be disappointing relative to exepectations.

Being that most incoming freshman are 17-19 (or 15 if you're Butch Jones in a post game presser) immaturity is not an uncommon reason for guys to leave the program whether it be on their own or for academic/disciplinary reasons. Detrick Mostella, Dom Woodson, Tyler Smith, Major Wingate and Ramar Smith were all, at the very minimum, contributors--and in a few cases team leaders. These guys were all kicked off the team within the last 10 years or so, does that mean we run a dirty program? I personally don't think so.

In regards to their non conference schedule being weak, I completely agree. But one thing I will say is that you don't schedule teams like UConn 2-3 years in advance with the expectation that they'll have a down year. That's a powerhouse opponent who just happened to have a down year. Same for Oklahoma. And last time I checked Purdue was pretty darn solid this year.

Bottom line Bruce's top 4 returning scorers are rising sophomores and he has a top 20 class coming in. He's off to a slow start, but it's not like he isn't out busting his ass on the recruiting trail making sure next year is better.

I agree with your first paragraph, but I'm afraid that Pearl is long gone. Having said that, part of me would be happy if it worked out somehow that he came back here but I think the results would be very different.

I also don't really have anything against him, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I see Barnes getting ripped for many things (some valid, some not) that people seem to give Pearl a pass for.
 
#15
#15
If you could combine Pearl and Barnes into one coach and get Pearls recruiting with Barnes coaching, you could win a Championship.
 
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#16
#16
If you could combine Pearl and Barnes into one coach and get Pearls recruiting with Barnes coaching, you could win a Championship.

Get to work on that. I want Bruce Barnes on the sideline next year.

Also, Rick Pearl is acceptable.
 
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#17
#17
I agree with your first paragraph, but I'm afraid that Pearl is long gone. Having said that, part of me would be happy if it worked out somehow that he came back here but I think the results would be very different.

I also don't really have anything against him, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I see Barnes getting ripped for many things (some valid, some not) that people seem to give Pearl a pass for.

It's crazy how much the personality of a coach impacts their legacy at UT. Bruce lied to the administration and the NCAA for about a year before the sh!t hit the fan and he was forced out. Yet, because he was an entertaining showman he gets a pass. Rick Barnes might have us scratching our heads at times but has followed the rules and been a class act. But somehow he's an easier target than Ole Boy Bruce.

I'm as guilty as anyone for it, I love Bruce. But I also played Gettysvue almost everyday during my summers home from college and Bruce's former house is one of the most unique and recognizable homes out there. Yet, we all ignore the fact that the owner of that home, Bruce, FOOLISHLY told the NCAA and the administration that he "wasn't sure" if that was his house or not when the Craft pictures from the Barbecue came to light. Interesting the way we idolize the one who caused our fall but criticize the one who has kept his nose clean.
 
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#18
#18
Let me ask you an important question. Bruce Pearl brought talent in while he was here at Tennessee. There's plenty of UT fans who would trade Barnes for Pearl in a heartbeat. I will give him credit for bringing in energy and excitment to this program but let me get to the point. Barnes isn't recruiting on the same level as Pearl right now but how is it that Pearl has yet to make the NCAA Tournament and loses to Barnes with more talent? We talk about Barnes vs Pearl all the time, it's basically a war. I've been very critical of Barnes at times, we all have at some point but he's done a good job scouting players that fit his system. Williams, Fulkerson, Bone, Phillips, Turner are all young players but talented.

I honestly believe we make the NCAA Tournament this year because all the pieces are there. Recruiting 4* and 5* talent isn't very important if you can't catch coach or develop them. Pearl is struggling with that right now at Auburn. So would you rather have a coach who can't win with top notch talent or would you rather have a good X's & O's coach who can develop players in Barnes?

Well, I can tell you this for certain. If you can't coach, you are a lot better off recruiting 4* and 5* players than you are 2* an 3*.

I get your point. But I really don't care how our coach and staff succeeds. Just do it. If all he can recruit are transgendered ex-nuns, but can make the Final Four, then I'm happy. Just like I would be if we have 4 McD AAs every year for the next 3 classes and make the FF.
 
#19
#19
It's crazy how much the personality of a coach impacts their legacy at UT. Bruce lied to the administration and the NCAA for about a year before the sh!t hit the fan and he was forced out. Yet, because he was an entertaining showman he gets a pass. Rick Barnes might have us scratching our heads at times but has followed the rules and been a class act. But somehow he's an easier target than Ole Boy Bruce.

I'm as guilty as anyone for it, I love Bruce. But I also played Gettysvue almost everyday during my summers home from college and Bruce's former house is one of the most unique and recognizable homes out there. Yet, we all ignore the fact that the owner of that home, Bruce, FOOLISHLY told the NCAA and the administration that he "wasn't sure" if that was his house or not when the Craft pictures from the Barbecue came to light. Interesting the way we idolize the one who caused our fall but criticize the one who has kept his nose clean.

Pretty good point. But, Pearl not only entertained, he won. He won more than anyone in our history taking us deeper into the NCAA than ever, perenially in the rankings, two #2 tourney seeds, and even a #1 ranking for a short while.

Fans normally respect and appreciate righteous men. But they LOVE a winning coach.
 
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#20
#20
Pretty good point. But, Pearl not only entertained, he won. He won more than anyone in our history taking us deeper into the NCAA than ever, perenially in the rankings, two #2 tourney seeds, and even a #1 ranking for a short while.

Fans normally respect and appreciate righteous men. But they LOVE a winning coach.

Pearl is actually third. Mears and Devoe won more games at UT than Pearl. Mears and Green had higher winning percentages than Pearl.
 
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#22
#22
Bruce lied to the administration and the NCAA for about a year before the sh!t hit the fan and he was forced out. .

I must of missed something as I thought he was questioned one day and told his lie then rethought it overnight and came clean the next day? Was there something besides the BBQ you're referring to?
 
#23
#23
If you could combine Pearl and Barnes into one coach and get Pearls recruiting with Barnes coaching, you could win a Championship.

I used to say something like this when dating way back when....

"If she just had her body....oh man....."
 
#24
#24
I must of missed something as I thought he was questioned one day and told his lie then rethought it overnight and came clean the next day? Was there something besides the BBQ you're referring to?

I am under the impression that the NCAA asked the administration towards the beginning of the season about the situation. Bruce claimed 100% innocence. About 5 months later, after the NCAA had put together an investigation and brought the pictures forth in front of Bruce and UT he claimed he didn't know where they were taken and said he "wasn't sure" if that was his home or not. Two days later he fessed up and came clean. You don't get an extended show cause for having recruits to your house for a cookout. The NCAA probably would have handed us 1-2 years worth of sanctions restricting our recruiting presence and our post season eligibility. The NCAA made an example out of Pearl because he lied and they spent a lot of time and money investigating what really happened only to find out that he was dishonest about it.
 

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