Dan Wolken, Barnes on cruise control?

[Fingers]

‏@DanWolken: What I feared when Barnes got the TN job was how he put it in cruise control at Texas. Hard to flip the switch.

 

[vols 30]

It's pretty evident.....IMO.

 

[SeniorDrill]

8 freshmen will cruise for 4 years.

 

[Special Ed]

8 freshmen will cruise for 4 years.

KY: 1 and Done.
UT: 4 on the Floor.

 

[volinbama256]

I must admit I have not kept up with Bball recruiting this past year, is he saying Barnes is not out there putting in the hours trying to get the best kids he can get? He is just working with whoever shows up?

 

[IPleadInsanity]

Recruiting here is an impossibility after the last 4 years. The administration has show weakness and recruits want no part of it. Not even on the radar for consideration. Nothing to do with the current coach.

 

[RollerVol]

No matter what...it's always about the current coach and Coach Barnes better hope "his" man gets the AD job, or he'll probably be out of one...

GO VOLS!

 

[volinbama256]

Recruiting here is an impossibility after the last 4 years. The administration has show weakness and recruits want no part of it. Not even on the radar for consideration. Nothing to do with the current coach.

I agree, but then why would they say he is on "cruise control" if he can't lure anyone here? Sounds to me like he is kind of stuck...

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I'm interested to see what the addition of Schwartz will do, it seemingly hasn't helped much this class but it appeared to have had us at least mentioned with some guys like Nick Richards and Jermaine Samuels. Rob Lewis said something the other day that made a lot of sense to me and I could see it being true, Barnes' is doing what he loves to do at Tennessee, coach basketball. Lewis has said he is coaching and demanding more from his players than any coach he has seen, and that player development is what he enjoys these days. What he doesn't enjoy is being on the road and recruiting these kids, telling them lies to stay in line for an OV, or making promises he knows he may not be able to keep. If this is how he wants to do things ok, but you have to have assistants willing to recruit their a$$e$ off and probably live a little in the gray area or tell a few lies. What Barnes is banking on is stability, and player development...he's banking on having a team full of Kevin Punter's/Josh Richardson's/Armani Moore's etc...3* guys who come in with chips on their shoulder, stay through their eligibility and work harder everyday to get better.

I'm not saying that plan will or will not work, if he finds a way to start getting more talented players I think it would increase those chances, but it's what he's going for. The positive to me is at least this year we targeted some higher rated guys, we couldn't say that in '16, so maybe in '18 they actually find the way to land a couple of them.

Fast forward to next year:
Bone (So)/Parker (SO)
Turner (So)/Mostella (SR)
Phillips (JR)/Johnson (FR)/Bowden (SO)
Schofield (JR)/Fulkerson (SO)
Alexander (JR)/Williams(SO)

So the 17-18 team will seemingly return 11/13 scholarship players as of today, the 18-19 team would be in place to return 13/13 scholarship players. Now, I'm aware attrition is likely, limiting it and it being the right players will be key for Barnes. Also, forseeing the massive departures and avoiding that will be key, I think at some point if someone from the '16 class were to transfer you look into taking a transfer, someone who would seemingly fall into the eligibility with the '17 guys to start to even out classes. If you can get a balance to where you are typically just losing 2-3 guys a year, and you're developing players, I can see how it could work. The issue is this philosophy takes a lot of patience from both fans and players, it likely will never result in any super team, and it doesn't take much to screw it up (a couple of mad players, or dismissals or academic casualties and your plan has a major hole).

 

[RollerVol]

actually believe we have some good backcourt and perimeter players but we don't have any "bigs" to battle down low...big deficiency...Coach Barnes' job to fix that... he don't fix...we stay 13th out of 14th in SEC..and, as, always...

GO VOLS!

 

[IPleadInsanity]

I agree, but then why would they say he is on "cruise control" if he can't lure anyone here? Sounds to me like he is kind of stuck...

I am guessing but being a huge UT fan I would not send my son to this program. They have shown no support for coaches when they are in trouble, no support for successful coaches and their hiring procedures are questionable at best. The last hire prior to Barnes turned the program into a dumpster fire rated 13th in a 12 team league. Years before they get back to middle of the pack. The football program will have to pick up the tab.

 

[zjcvols]

I'm interested to see what the addition of Schwartz will do, it seemingly hasn't helped much this class but it appeared to have had us at least mentioned with some guys like Nick Richards and Jermaine Samuels. Rob Lewis said something the other day that made a lot of sense to me and I could see it being true, Barnes' is doing what he loves to do at Tennessee, coach basketball. Lewis has said he is coaching and demanding more from his players than any coach he has seen, and that player development is what he enjoys these days. What he doesn't enjoy is being on the road and recruiting these kids, telling them lies to stay in line for an OV, or making promises he knows he may not be able to keep. If this is how he wants to do things ok, but you have to have assistants willing to recruit their a$$e$ off and probably live a little in the gray area or tell a few lies. What Barnes is banking on is stability, and player development...he's banking on having a team full of Kevin Punter's/Josh Richardson's/Armani Moore's etc...3* guys who come in with chips on their shoulder, stay through their eligibility and work harder everyday to get better.

I'm not saying that plan will or will not work, if he finds a way to start getting more talented players I think it would increase those chances, but it's what he's going for. The positive to me is at least this year we targeted some higher rated guys, we couldn't say that in '16, so maybe in '18 they actually find the way to land a couple of them.

Fast forward to next year:
Bone (So)/Parker (SO)
Turner (So)/Mostella (SR)
Phillips (JR)/Johnson (FR)/Bowden (SO)
Schofield (JR)/Fulkerson (SO)
Alexander (JR)/Williams(SO)

So the 17-18 team will seemingly return 11/13 scholarship players as of today, the 18-19 team would be in place to return 13/13 scholarship players. Now, I'm aware attrition is likely, limiting it and it being the right players will be key for Barnes. Also, forseeing the massive departures and avoiding that will be key, I think at some point if someone from the '16 class were to transfer you look into taking a transfer, someone who would seemingly fall into the eligibility with the '17 guys to start to even out classes. If you can get a balance to where you are typically just losing 2-3 guys a year, and you're developing players, I can see how it could work. The issue is this philosophy takes a lot of patience from both fans and players, it likely will never result in any super team, and it doesn't take much to screw it up (a couple of mad players, or dismissals or academic casualties and your plan has a major hole).

If Barnes doesn't want to recruit then he can GTFO.

This isn't Duke. You got to go actively put your name out there. If true, this is just incredibly naive.

 

[whobethis16]

If Barnes doesn't want to recruit then he can GTFO.

This isn't Duke. You got to go actively put your name out there. If true, this is just incredibly naive.

Doesn't want =/= doesn't do. Just because he doesn't want to do it doesn't mean he isn't doing it.

 

[Roustabout]

If Barnes can produce with this philosophy, then recruits will take notice.
If it doesnt, it's going to be ugly.

I like the gaurds he's getting. yiu just can't ignore the post deficiencies. No size. I would have expected Barnes years of success would have afforded more equity on the recruiting trail. It's as if there was none and he is staring from scratch.

 

[cwbytruckers]

Coach haters will eat this thread up. I'm excited to see our guys compete this season. Going to be a bumpy ride. But when hasn't Vols Hoops. Love them win or lose. Just thankful I'm not a UK fan. GO VOLS

 

[Stoked]

This last class he got was really underrated and I think people are sleeping on it. I buy into what BTO said. Barnes has been shifting from being a top recruiter to a player developer. What he did with KP has really got me excited to see what he'll do with last years class and the class before that.

Admiral
Alexander
Phillips

All three showed potential as 3 stars

The 2016 class will have a couple of All-SEC players before their careers are over imo.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

If Barnes doesn't want to recruit then he can GTFO.

This isn't Duke. You got to go actively put your name out there. If true, this is just incredibly naive.

If he has assistants that are top level recruiters, putting 100% into it, living in the grey areas, telling lies...I believe that strategy can work. Barnes is out every possible eval day he's allowed to be, it's not as if he isn't, he just isn't gonna go into these kids houses and tell them what most want to hear. At Texas Lanier/Springman/and the Lucas connection got them in with many guys, add in that a lot of Texas kids wanna play for the home school and so his job as mainly playing closer was perfectly fine there.

What you probably should realize is that Barnes is the coach year for then next couple years minimum, so suggesting he can gtfo is just foolish, it's not gonna happen. I have said I think they need to recruit better, but I've also said I do think you can likely be a consistent 19-22 win program if you get the stability and player development needed.

 

[pdogg]

If he has assistants that are top level recruiters, putting 100% into it, living in the grey areas, telling lies...I believe that strategy can work. Barnes is out every possible eval day he's allowed to be, it's not as if he isn't, he just isn't gonna go into these kids houses and tell them what most want to hear. At Texas Lanier/Springman/and the Lucas connection got them in with many guys, add in that a lot of Texas kids wanna play for the home school and so his job as mainly playing closer was perfectly fine there.

What you probably should realize is that Barnes is the coach year for then next couple years minimum, so suggesting he can gtfo is just foolish, it's not gonna happen. I have said I think they need to recruit better, but I've also said I do think you can likely be a consistent 19-22 win program if you get the stability and player development needed.

Don't forget he also had Rodney Terry getting the player's from Canada and had Frank Haith before that.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Don't forget he also had Rodney Terry getting the player's from Canada and had Frank Haith before that.

Yup, them too.

 

[calban]

He just needs to find another super recruiter?
Springman or the Jew boy Martin had that likes female reporters.

 

[VolGee4]

I'm interested to see what the addition of Schwartz will do, it seemingly hasn't helped much this class but it appeared to have had us at least mentioned with some guys like Nick Richards and Jermaine Samuels. Rob Lewis said something the other day that made a lot of sense to me and I could see it being true, Barnes' is doing what he loves to do at Tennessee, coach basketball. Lewis has said he is coaching and demanding more from his players than any coach he has seen, and that player development is what he enjoys these days. What he doesn't enjoy is being on the road and recruiting these kids, telling them lies to stay in line for an OV, or making promises he knows he may not be able to keep. If this is how he wants to do things ok, but you have to have assistants willing to recruit their a$$e$ off and probably live a little in the gray area or tell a few lies. What Barnes is banking on is stability, and player development...he's banking on having a team full of Kevin Punter's/Josh Richardson's/Armani Moore's etc...3* guys who come in with chips on their shoulder, stay through their eligibility and work harder everyday to get better.

I'm not saying that plan will or will not work, if he finds a way to start getting more talented players I think it would increase those chances, but it's what he's going for. The positive to me is at least this year we targeted some higher rated guys, we couldn't say that in '16, so maybe in '18 they actually find the way to land a couple of them.

Fast forward to next year:
Bone (So)/Parker (SO)
Turner (So)/Mostella (SR)
Phillips (JR)/Johnson (FR)/Bowden (SO)
Schofield (JR)/Fulkerson (SO)
Alexander (JR)/Williams(SO)

So the 17-18 team will seemingly return 11/13 scholarship players as of today, the 18-19 team would be in place to return 13/13 scholarship players. Now, I'm aware attrition is likely, limiting it and it being the right players will be key for Barnes. Also, forseeing the massive departures and avoiding that will be key, I think at some point if someone from the '16 class were to transfer you look into taking a transfer, someone who would seemingly fall into the eligibility with the '17 guys to start to even out classes. If you can get a balance to where you are typically just losing 2-3 guys a year, and you're developing players, I can see how it could work. The issue is this philosophy takes a lot of patience from both fans and players, it likely will never result in any super team, and it doesn't take much to screw it up (a couple of mad players, or dismissals or academic casualties and your plan has a major hole).

Over the last couple of years, Gary Parrish has continued to say that good college basketball coaches are getting tired of the necessary parts of college recruiting. It's a dirty business, and they simply get tired of it.

The very elite ones can stick because they don't have to work as hard as everyone else because they have the equity or the ties. The level of coaches below that still have to grind and do things they simply don't want to do. That is why you saw Billy Donovan jump to the NBA. He was a fantastic college coach and could have been at UF until he retired. But he was tired of the requirements that it takes to coddle high school players, families, and coaches. Even Donovan wasn't elite enough to get any recruit he wanted like a Calipari. He had to work hard at it. At some point, most of these guys just want to coach basketball and not have to rely on paying fees to a camp, hiring a family member, or using a policy that is a gray area to lure recruits.

 

[calban]

Over the last couple of years, Gary Parrish has continued to say that good college basketball coaches are getting tired of the necessary parts of college recruiting. It's a dirty business, and they simply get tired of it.

The very elite ones can stick because they don't have to work as hard as everyone else because they have the equity or the ties. The level of coaches below that still have to grind and do things they simply don't want to do. That is why you saw Billy Donovan jump to the NBA. He was a fantastic college coach and could have been at UF until he retired. But he was tired of the requirements that it takes to coddle high school players, families, and coaches. Even Donovan wasn't elite enough to get any recruit he wanted like a Calipari. He had to work hard at it. At some point, most of these guys just want to coach basketball and not have to rely on paying fees to a camp, hiring a family member, or using a policy that is a gray area to lure recruits.

One source maybe Parrish has said that this is why Springman wasn't brought to TN. He was Barnes' gray area guy or top recruiter.

 

[zjcvols]

If he has assistants that are top level recruiters, putting 100% into it, living in the grey areas, telling lies...I believe that strategy can work. Barnes is out every possible eval day he's allowed to be, it's not as if he isn't, he just isn't gonna go into these kids houses and tell them what most want to hear. At Texas Lanier/Springman/and the Lucas connection got them in with many guys, add in that a lot of Texas kids wanna play for the home school and so his job as mainly playing closer was perfectly fine there.

What you probably should realize is that Barnes is the coach year for then next couple years minimum, so suggesting he can gtfo is just foolish, it's not gonna happen. I have said I think they need to recruit better, but I've also said I do think you can likely be a consistent 19-22 win program if you get the stability and player development needed.

That can work at an elite school. Tennessee is a good job but we need a guy like Pearl or Martin who put in work in recruiting. If he doesn't like the process (I'm fine with being honest with kids) then this isn't the job for him.

And here's the issue. That's strategy isn't working. We have zero commits less than a month away from signing day

 

[Stoked]

That can work at an elite school. Tennessee is a good job but we need a guy like Pearl or Martin who put in work in recruiting. If he doesn't like the process (I'm fine with being honest with kids) then this isn't the job for him.

And here's the issue. That's strategy isn't working. We have zero commits less than a month away from signing day

We have what one or two spots open? If we don't get Stokes or Kent to sign early just keep those two spots open until the spring signing period.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

That can work at an elite school. Tennessee is a good job but we need a guy like Pearl or Martin who put in work in recruiting. If he doesn't like the process (I'm fine with being honest with kids) then this isn't the job for him.

And here's the issue. That's strategy isn't working. We have zero commits less than a month away from signing day

There's a spring signing period also if for some reason they don't land anyone in November, I think that's unlikely though.