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Old 07-22-2015, 09:53 PM   #31
bleedingTNorange
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These were your words just a few weeks ago:

"when trying to build stability why tie up a scholarship for 3-4 years on a guy who has no business being on scholarship at Tennessee?"

"As I've addressed already, I would prefer not to fill the roster for the next 3 seasons with mid major talent"


Sure would make much more sense to take a chance on a mid major talent at a position of need with no other option(that was the discussion) than in this case.

Seems like to me the flip flopping of opinions is simply based on which HC was making the offers.
"On a guy who has no business being on scholarship at Tennessee"...I feel Fulkerson does deserve that.

"I would preder not to fill the roster for the next 3 seasons with mid major talent"...again, I don't think he's some scrub, I thought that was clear?

I like Fulkerson's game, I've talked to Andre Whitehead about Fulkerson, if you're not familiar with AW he's seen guys like Jalen Steele, Skylar McBee, Lester Wilson, Dre Mathieu etc. more than any college coach ever has, and he had very high praise for Fulkerson and the potential that he has.

On your last sentence, does Rick Barnes, a 17 time NCAAT coach, head man to 20+ NBA players and likely future member of the CBBHOF get a little bit more of a "leash" or "pass" than the life long cheater and mid major coach who's made 2 NCAAT? Yes, yes he does.
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Old 07-22-2015, 09:57 PM   #32
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I guess I was confused. I thought the spin zone was over with a real recruiter taking over.

I expected us to be in on all the top guys and not make reaches so EARLY in the recruiting year
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Old 07-22-2015, 10:01 PM   #33
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I guess I was confused. I thought the spin zone was over with a real recruiter taking over.

I expected us to be in on all the top guys and not make reaches so EARLY in the recruiting year
I don't feel he's a reach, I guess that's where we differ in opinion, I feel we are early to the party on a rising prospect who's likely to end up ranked and with multiple high major offers.

If the whole '16 class is filled with similar caliber players it will be an issue, but would be about on par with what the previous guy was about to bring in.

My stance is very simple and has remained the same on Fulkerson since he camped at Tennessee over a month ago, if he's the lowest rated recruit of a 5-7 man '16 class I will gladly take it.
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Old 07-22-2015, 10:10 PM   #34
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If he gets a UGA and IU offer in the following weeks will this immediately become a good offer? Honest question.
Difficult question. Should we still view IU as a top program?
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Old 07-22-2015, 11:30 PM   #35
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If he gets a UGA and IU offer in the following weeks will this immediately become a good offer? Honest question.
IU, yes. UGA not so much. UGA is a solidly bottom third SEC program over time. Every once in a while they do better, sometimes for couple of years, but not very often.
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:55 AM   #36
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I saw him play many times while he was at Robyn's Bennett, I really don't see why we offered I mean he was a good player but when you are playing teams like Sullivan Central you shluld be great. Science hill is the only team close that is good and lots of other teams would beat them the past few years. Not a fan of this offer...
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:45 AM   #37
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I guess I was confused. I thought the spin zone was over with a real recruiter taking over.

I expected us to be in on all the top guys and not make reaches so EARLY in the recruiting year
Don't get your hopes up too high. Barnes can recruit but we won't have Kentucky or Duke like recruiting classes. We should have top 25 classes and be competitive. Barnes is here to give stability and to help us rejuvenate the talent pool. Also some of Barnes key players have been 3 star guys. Guys like Connor Lammert, Isaiah Taylor, Javan Felix (borderline 3-4*) and Martez Walker could be included. Dude has been a decent piece to the puzzle. 2017 i think we can expect a huge class especially with the recruiting connections our assitants have and all the good Canadian players for that class. I could be totally wrong here and/or missed the blue font. If so let me know
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:56 AM   #38
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Don't get your hopes up too high. Barnes can recruit but we won't have Kentucky or Duke like recruiting classes. We should have top 25 classes and be competitive. Barnes is here to give stability and to help us rejuvenate the talent pool. Also some of Barnes key players have been 3 star guys. Guys like Connor Lammert, Isaiah Taylor, Javan Felix (borderline 3-4*) and Martez Walker could be included. Dude has been a decent piece to the puzzle. 2017 i think we can expect a huge class especially with the recruiting connections our assitants have and all the good Canadian players for that class. I could be totally wrong here and/or missed the blue font. If so let me know
I don't expect KY or Duke classes, but a Mississippi State or Auburn class would be nice. Both those guys got it going pretty good with top 100 guys right off the bat and Tennessee has a lot more to sell than either of those places.

I think Barnes will do fine, but it is a little disconcerting to see the level of prospect vs my own personal expectation. I really thought, and maybe I was delusional, that Tennessee would at least have a top 20/ top third of the SEC level class in Barnes' first shot at it. I didn't think he'd do as well as Pearl (that was a miracle with a sixth ranked class), but I didn't think top 20 would be too much to expect. The way it's looking now, unless Tennessee lands Blackwell, top 20 out of reach and you probably are looking at a similar class to the last two Cuonzo groups.
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Old 07-23-2015, 10:22 AM   #39
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I don't expect KY or Duke classes, but a Mississippi State or Auburn class would be nice. Both those guys got it going pretty good with top 100 guys right off the bat and Tennessee has a lot more to sell than either of those places.

I think Barnes will do fine, but it is a little disconcerting to see the level of prospect vs my own personal expectation. I really thought, and maybe I was delusional, that Tennessee would at least have a top 20/ top third of the SEC level class in Barnes' first shot at it. I didn't think he'd do as well as Pearl (that was a miracle with a sixth ranked class), but I didn't think top 20 would be too much to expect. The way it's looking now, unless Tennessee lands Blackwell, top 20 out of reach and you probably are looking at a similar class to the last two Cuonzo groups.
IMO, you may be underestimating the way the Tennessee program is perceived nationally after the last 5 years. 4 coaches and 2 brushes with the NCAA, either directly or indirectly, is not a recipe for immediate success. Auburn and MSU were awful for a long time, but all they needed was a coach to convince players they could win. Barnes is tasked with not only that, but also fighting the perception that Tennessee is a renegade program with clown shoes leadership that will just be turning over that leadership continually. He has to establish a stable foundation of leadership and program integrity before high profile talent will consistently follow.

And it's also possible that the recruiting process and college atmosphere has just passed him by. I think it's too early to tell. Hopefully by this time next year, we are having a different conversation about his recruiting. If not, it's probably fair to judge his efforts at that point. He'll either have us pointed in the right direction, or he won't.
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Old 07-23-2015, 10:24 AM   #40
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IMO, you may be underestimating the way the Tennessee program is perceived nationally after the last 5 years. 4 coaches and 2 brushes with the NCAA, either directly or indirectly, is not a recipe for immediate success. Auburn and MSU were awful for a long time, but all they needed was a coach to convince players they could win. Barnes is tasked with not only that, but also fighting the perception that Tennessee is a renegade program with clown shoes leadership that will just be turning over that leadership continually. He has to establish a stable foundation of leadership and program integrity before high profile talent will consistently follow.

And it's also possible that the recruiting process and college atmosphere has just passed him by. I think it's too early to tell. Hopefully by this time next year, we are having a different conversation about his recruiting. If not, it's probably fair to judge his efforts at that point. He'll either have us pointed in the right direction, or he won't.
Surely you aren't suggesting miss state is on better footing that us......
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Old 07-23-2015, 10:46 AM   #41
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Surely you aren't suggesting miss state is on better footing that us......
Institutionally speaking, sure they are. Don't get me wrong, Tennessee has much more to offer, more financial backing, and more tradition. But, we also are nationally viewed as a toxic program right now. 4 coaches in 6 years and 2 ties to NCAA investigations (3 if you count Texas investigation) is a lot to overcome in the living room of a prospect, even for the newest coach.

Mississippi State has to overcome a recent tradition of being a bad basketball team. A coach with Ben Howland's resumé can overcome that rather quickly. It's a much easier obstacle to navigate than what Barnes is facing at Tennessee.
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Old 07-23-2015, 10:48 AM   #42
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Mississippi State has to overcome a recent tradition of being a bad basketball team. A coach with Ben Howland's resumé can overcome that rather quickly. It's a much easier obstacle to navigate than what Barnes is facing at Tennessee.
100% strongly disagree. You seem to be forgetting that howland has some pretty serious ghost in his resume closet
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:07 AM   #43
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100% strongly disagree. You seem to be forgetting that howland has some pretty serious ghost in his resume closet
And Bruce Pearl just came off a three year show cause.

Neither Mississippi State nor Auburn are in better shape than Tennessee. I just don't buy this toxic program stuff. Heck, Rick Pitino was signing top classes in the middle of a blackmail trial which involved him, a waitress and former assistant.
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:07 PM   #44
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I don't expect KY or Duke classes, but a Mississippi State or Auburn class would be nice. Both those guys got it going pretty good with top 100 guys right off the bat and Tennessee has a lot more to sell than either of those places.

I think Barnes will do fine, but it is a little disconcerting to see the level of prospect vs my own personal expectation. I really thought, and maybe I was delusional, that Tennessee would at least have a top 20/ top third of the SEC level class in Barnes' first shot at it. I didn't think he'd do as well as Pearl (that was a miracle with a sixth ranked class), but I didn't think top 20 would be too much to expect. The way it's looking now, unless Tennessee lands Blackwell, top 20 out of reach and you probably are looking at a similar class to the last two Cuonzo groups.
It was an okay class for the month or two he had to complete it. I mean give the guys some time. This class in 2016 isn't over either. We will have a top 30 class at the least. Pearl recruited the entire year at the barn and Miss State had a legacy PG commit to them. Just be patient as hard as it is to be sometimes.
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:11 PM   #45
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100% strongly disagree. You seem to be forgetting that howland has some pretty serious ghost in his resume closet
Disagree if you want. What serious NCAA violations was Howland charged with? You seem to be forgetting the difference between being found guilty and being rumored to be guilty. As far as I know, Howland has a fairly clean slate with the NCAA despite what rumors you may have heard.
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