The BBall empire to the north may be crumbling

#2
#2
We still have a top 5 class. One of the best true point guards and best big men in the nation. We're gonna take a step back but still top 25 team.

OPs username makes sense with this kinda thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10 people
#3
#3
Duke took one from UK, but otherwise, LittleCat is spot on. Calipari could sell ice to an Eskimo for 2x market value. Best overall recruiter I've ever seen in bball. It's actually equal parts frustrating and insane.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#4
#4
Kentucky will continue to get elite players. The recruiting classes may not always be the best in history, but they will be good. We have bigger issues than worrying about what UK is doing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#7
#7
We still have a top 5 class. One of the best true point guards and best big men in the nation. We're gonna take a step back but still top 25 team.

OPs username makes sense with this kinda thread.

I resemble that remark!

This may be my favorite passage from the article:
"All five of Calipari's primary targets during the spring signing period selected other schools over Kentucky, forcing the Wildcats to scramble to identify second-tier options.":cool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people
#8
#8
I resemble that remark!

This may be my favorite passage from the article:
"All five of Calipari's primary targets during the spring signing period selected other schools over Kentucky, forcing the Wildcats to scramble to identify second-tier options.":cool:

Lol, simply a joke.

Our problem this year was we thought we'd get a few more 5*s and when it fell through it was either too late to sway others or most of the other offers had committed elsewhere.
 
#9
#9
As long as Cal is there, they will be good.

Will they win NC's? They will get one every now and then.

But the thing that people don't really see, is that Cal has never had to prove his ability to develop players. When you're known for "one and done" players, you never really have to make it work.

Cal brings in talent, but talent is only part of the equation. Leadership and maturity are also things that have to be there, and it takes A LOT of talent to overcome those two things if they're not there.

Take Duke for example this year. Sure, they have Jahlil. But Duke doesn't win that NC if not for Quinn Cook, the senior who desired to win so badly that he willingly and eagerly gave up his minutes to a freshman who could help the team win.

Look at Wisconsin. Yes Dekker was a 5*, but Kaminsky was only a 3*. His offer list was Bradley, Depaul, Northwestern, Southern Illinois, and Northern Illinois. Kaminsky wasn't even on anyone's radar, and yet, he was the Naismith and Wooden player of the year this year.

In all honesty, I think Cal is great for Kentucky, in the sense of, he's going to provide what you need to get hyped. He's going to bring in talent, consistently. But he won't win national championships consistently until he brings in some guys who are going to be pillars in the program and stay for several years. Cal's 2012 NC team wouldn't have been what it was if not for Darius Miller and Eloy Vargas. Darius Miller was a heck of a ballplayer.

I think back to here at UT, our best team. Lofton, J.P. Prince, Chism, Jajuan Smith, Ramar Smith, Tyler Smith. All guys who were at least sophomores.

I just think maturity is what lacks when you base a program on one and dones.
 
#10
#10
As long as Cal is there, they will be good. Will they win NC's? They will get one every now and then.

Agreed. My only worry is that we're now 1/4 in Final Fours. 2011 wasn't expected, but we lost to a team we shouldn't have. 2012 we were clearly the best and won it. 2014 we had the potential and lived up to it, but again lost to a team we shouldn't have. 2015, I might differ from a lot of people, but we lost to a team we should have. So basically 1/3 in my books. Disappointing any way you cut it.

But the thing that people don't really see, is that Cal has never had to prove his ability to develop players. When you're known for "one and done" players, you never really have to make it work.

Cal brings in talent, but talent is only part of the equation. Leadership and maturity are also things that have to be there, and it takes A LOT of talent to overcome those two things if they're not there.

Develop is an interesting word with how you look it. Lots of people would say he's been fantastic at developing players and making sure they are successful in the league. Elite high school players do not always end up in the nba, but Cal has been extremely successful with who he has sent. Look at some of the comparisons between schools like KU, Duke, or even UF. I think he definitely developed some players. Guys I thought would have no business leaving decided to because they were successful with how Cal played them. Next year we'll see Willis/Hawkins too and how they have developed at UK.

Take Duke for example this year. Sure, they have Jahlil. But Duke doesn't win that NC if not for Quinn Cook, the senior who desired to win so badly that he willingly and eagerly gave up his minutes to a freshman who could help the team win.

Look at Wisconsin. Yes Dekker was a 5*, but Kaminsky was only a 3*. His offer list was Bradley, Depaul, Northwestern, Southern Illinois, and Northern Illinois. Kaminsky wasn't even on anyone's radar, and yet, he was the Naismith and Wooden player of the year this year.

The problem is, and it's a crazy problem, when you're able to take the highest ranked players every year you will not be able to take guys projected as multiple year players. Cal has to make a choice whether to target a few 5*s and others, or all 5*s. Cal chose the latter and it's worked fine with 4 final fours. I don't think I would go back and change it. Maybe going forward I would think about it.

Btw, lets look at Cook. He was 32nd in his class. Stayed four years and probably wont get drafted. Booker came in without any draft talk, after being ranked 22nd in his class, and in one season nba scouts are saying he's a lottery pick. Coach K developed a great 4 year college player, while Booker proved in one season he was nba ready (hopefully). Big difference I guess. Obviously Cook helps Duke a lot more than Booker leaving.

In all honesty, I think Cal is great for Kentucky, in the sense of, he's going to provide what you need to get hyped. He's going to bring in talent, consistently. But he won't win national championships consistently until he brings in some guys who are going to be pillars in the program and stay for several years. Cal's 2012 NC team wouldn't have been what it was if not for Darius Miller and Eloy Vargas. Darius Miller was a heck of a ballplayer.

Eloy wasn't much of a factor. It was Darius who really helped win that title. But it was more because we had a guy like Davis surrounded by guys who complemented him well. We could have won it just as easily in 2011, 2014 and that argument is out that window. But the ball bounced the other way so it's brought up a lot. We have guys like WCS, Poythress, Lamb, Jones, Harrisons, Ulis, etc who have played more than 1 year. Guys that are big time players like the Wall, Knight, Davis were for those teams.

I just think maturity is what lacks when you base a program on one and dones.

Who was behind Davis? Rivers. Randle? Parker. In front of KAT? Jahlil. Etc etc. Duke had been trying hard to get one and dones. Their 4 year starter was nearly a 5*. Duke gets the same type of players. It's the systems and coaches. I think a lot of credit goes to Coach K for keeping them on campus and then the coaching he does in season. If Cal was better we might never talk about this because he beats Wisc and has a chance at Duke.
 
#11
#11
We still have a top 5 class. One of the best true point guards and best big men in the nation. We're gonna take a step back but still top 25 team.

OPs username makes sense with this kinda thread.

The username is definitely fitting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#12
#12
Agreed. My only worry is that we're now 1/4 in Final Fours. 2011 wasn't expected, but we lost to a team we shouldn't have. 2012 we were clearly the best and won it. 2014 we had the potential and lived up to it, but again lost to a team we shouldn't have. 2015, I might differ from a lot of people, but we lost to a team we should have. So basically 1/3 in my books. Disappointing any way you cut it.



Develop is an interesting word with how you look it. Lots of people would say he's been fantastic at developing players and making sure they are successful in the league. Elite high school players do not always end up in the nba, but Cal has been extremely successful with who he has sent. Look at some of the comparisons between schools like KU, Duke, or even UF. I think he definitely developed some players. Guys I thought would have no business leaving decided to because they were successful with how Cal played them. Next year we'll see Willis/Hawkins too and how they have developed at UK.



The problem is, and it's a crazy problem, when you're able to take the highest ranked players every year you will not be able to take guys projected as multiple year players. Cal has to make a choice whether to target a few 5*s and others, or all 5*s. Cal chose the latter and it's worked fine with 4 final fours. I don't think I would go back and change it. Maybe going forward I would think about it.

Btw, lets look at Cook. He was 32nd in his class. Stayed four years and probably wont get drafted. Booker came in without any draft talk, after being ranked 22nd in his class, and in one season nba scouts are saying he's a lottery pick. Coach K developed a great 4 year college player, while Booker proved in one season he was nba ready (hopefully). Big difference I guess. Obviously Cook helps Duke a lot more than Booker leaving.



Eloy wasn't much of a factor. It was Darius who really helped win that title. But it was more because we had a guy like Davis surrounded by guys who complemented him well. We could have won it just as easily in 2011, 2014 and that argument is out that window. But the ball bounced the other way so it's brought up a lot. We have guys like WCS, Poythress, Lamb, Jones, Harrisons, Ulis, etc who have played more than 1 year. Guys that are big time players like the Wall, Knight, Davis were for those teams.



Who was behind Davis? Rivers. Randle? Parker. In front of KAT? Jahlil. Etc etc. Duke had been trying hard to get one and dones. Their 4 year starter was nearly a 5*. Duke gets the same type of players. It's the systems and coaches. I think a lot of credit goes to Coach K for keeping them on campus and then the coaching he does in season. If Cal was better we might never talk about this because he beats Wisc and has a chance at Duke.

:eek:lol: One in four in final fours...yeah I feel so sorry for you guys...now, that's funny. Only UK fan would say that. Ya'll are so spoiled.

GO VOLS!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#13
#13
Duke took one from UK, but otherwise, LittleCat is spot on. Calipari could sell ice to an Eskimo for 2x market value. Best overall recruiter I've ever seen in bball. It's actually equal parts frustrating and insane.

They lost out on more than just Ingram to Duke. There were 8 uncommitted prospects at the McD game, I believe all had UK on their list, all chose to go elsewhere. They're not crumbling but that doesn't happen often.
 
#14
#14
"I think any BasketVol fan could take heart in this news of Calipari's struggles to lasso the type of recruits he's used to getting, especially now that UT's basketball program seems to be on an upward trend. "

Since when? All we've done is make a coaching change. It was a good hire but there certainly hasn't been a trend.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#15
#15
What happens to the UK grad rate with all these one and doners? Has it caught up to them yet ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#16
#16
"I think any BasketVol fan could take heart in this news of Calipari's struggles to lasso the type of recruits he's used to getting, especially now that UT's basketball program seems to be on an upward trend. "

Since when? All we've done is make a coaching change. It was a good hire but there certainly hasn't been a trend.
A top 100 point guard and a possible lock of another one. We are on a trend
 
#17
#17
"I think any BasketVol fan could take heart in this news of Calipari's struggles to lasso the type of recruits he's used to getting, especially now that UT's basketball program seems to be on an upward trend. "

Since when? All we've done is make a coaching change. It was a good hire but there certainly hasn't been a trend.

I would agree here. Kentucky certainly isn't crumbling, and Tennessee isn't necessarily on an upward trend.

UK didn't sign the #1 recruiting class for the first time since Cal arrived and lost one game last year. If that is crumbling, then I'd like a piece.

Tennessee is at its lowest point in 10 or 11 years, and there is a big hole to climb out of for Barnes. Fortunately, basketball programs can be turned around rather quickly with good recruiting and better than average coaching.
 
#20
#20
Duke took one from UK, but otherwise, LittleCat is spot on. Calipari could sell ice to an Eskimo for 2x market value. Best overall recruiter I've ever seen in bball. It's actually equal parts frustrating and insane.

If I was buddies with William Wesley I could get top recruits too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#22
#22
:eek:lol: One in four in final fours...yeah I feel so sorry for you guys...now, that's funny. Only UK fan would say that. Ya'll are so spoiled.

GO VOLS!

UT fans talk every year about how UT is destined to be competing for titles every year. UK does it in basketball. It's what makes the program who they are. National powers at their best.

If I was buddies with William Wesley I could get top recruits too.

If only it were as easy back in the Gilbert/Wooden era :)
 
#23
#23
UT fans talk every year about how UT is destined to be competing for titles every year. UK does it in basketball. It's what makes the program who they are. National powers at their best.



If only it were as easy back in the Gilbert/Wooden era :)

Football.
 
#24
#24
I'm sure folks will disagree but I think Cal should look back at his record and realize his best team overall (not necessarily talent, but chemistry wise and winning a title) was his 2012 group.

Yes Anthony Davis was probably the best player he's gotten since Rose (and probably better period by the end of it), but that team had upper classmen in Liggins and Harrelson that played significant roles and helped keep that group together. I'd honestly rather get a high/mid 4 star or two every now and then with those 1 and dones that I know is going to be a solid role player and not leave me for the draft until his junior/senior years, if at all, just to have some consistency if it were me.

Of course, we're talking about a guy who pushed out a rising junior 5 star in Wiltjer for more freshmen, so who knows how his mind works. Especially after Wiltjer averaged 17/6/2 at Gonzaga afterwards.
 
#25
#25
To be honest Cal recruiting 3-4 year guys to mix in with one and dines worries me more than him just loading up on one and dones
 

VN Store



Back
Top