When we hired Tyndall we discussed Tempo

#1
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volholio

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#1
Many here adamantly argued that Tyndall plays up-tempo basketball. I argued that the numbers over his career didn't match up to that assessment.

I took all the numbers from Bruce Pearl's career as the control, since we all know how fast he plays.

Then I took Cuonzo's and Tyndall's.

The numbers showed that Pearl indeed played fast. Our eyes didn't deceive us.

However, Cuonzo usually played a bit faster than Tyndall, but they were pretty equal.

My thesis was and is that if you were hoping that Tyndall would bring fast up tempo basketball with him, history didn't bear that out.

So were are we now only 6 games in the season? Here we go:

1) Pearl: 67.8possessions per game = 105 fastest

2) Cuonzo: 67.3 possessions per game = 131 fastest

3) Tyndall: 64.3 possessions per game = 268 fastest


2015 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings
 
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#3
#3
Maybe i'm not understanding this but doesn't the 268 show that he is easily the fastest? I'm not much of a basketball guy. Or is that the ranking. Words and numbers have given me fits today. :crazy:
 
#4
#4
it is the 2-1-2 zone press falling back into a zone defense that's slowing the offense down right now. It will take a while for these players to be able to just play and not trying to remember where to be on defense. It is a very difficult defense to run and it isn't very common and I would guess there is probably only couple of players on the team that have played this style of defense in their short careers. I believe by the end of the year we will see the tempo we are playing at will speed up drastically.
 
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#5
#5
eskimovol said:
Maybe i'm not understanding this but doesn't the 268 show that he is easily the fastest? I'm not much of a basketball guy. Or is that the ranking. Words and numbers have given me fits today. :crazy:
Click to expand...

The left number is the number of posssessions per game. The right number is rank: the higher the number, the more teams play faster than you. 1= fastest.

:rock:

I'll keep us updated throughout the year.
 
#6
#6
The problem with Martin came with him being a below average offense coach, so unless we were on break we didn't score very well. McRae, Josh, and Stokes is all we really had in the half court most games. Tyndall's system utilizes athletes better. That's why without a true PG/all freshman post we have been in every game. Tyndall's press is very effective. Our problem right now is rebounding. That's why Zo had all those possessions. He had the best rebounding duo in the SEC. We currently have an avg to below avg rebounding team, and thus, give up chances to have more possessions.
 
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#7
#7
Also, as another poster suggested, our defensive philosophy has been forcing people late into the shot clock. That causes the possessions to go down. We aren't pushing it as much as we could on offense but once we do our possession number should rise. I don't believe we will ever see a number greater than 70 because of our defense forcing people into long possessions. I understand it's the best metric to use but possessions per game does not tell the whole story.
 
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#8
#8
All anyone with a brain would need to do is watch a few games. You don't need stats to tell you what's slow and what's fast or what is boring and what is exciting.

Is our current offense executing the way we'd like? No. Is it a more exciting brand than we've seen since Pearl left? Absolutely.

Ultimately exciting vs boring won't mean as much as winning vs losing.
 
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#12
#12
Interesting stats OP, but I could care less how the possessions per game compare to Martin's, I like watching this team play. They can't shoot a lick, but they look like they are having a blast out there. I really hope Tyndall escapes the NCAA noose.
 
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#13
#13
UTjonez said:
it is the 2-1-2 zone press falling back into a zone defense that's slowing the offense down right now. It will take a while for these players to be able to just play and not trying to remember where to be on defense. It is a very difficult defense to run and it isn't very common and I would guess there is probably only couple of players on the team that have played this style of defense in their short careers. I believe by the end of the year we will see the tempo we are playing at will speed up drastically.
Click to expand...

Possibly... I'm a high school assistant coach and we actually run the 2-1-2 zone press and 2-1-2 half court defense. You are correct that it isn't a very common defensive scheme, but it's not that difficult to learn. I was not at all familiar with it myself, but have become a big believer in its effectiveness. We have different schemes for this set and I've not been able to watch the Vols enough to really see how they are playing it. You can play a 2-1-2 in the half court which is similar to a 2-3 zone with the exception being you have better coverage of the high post which often leads to longer possession times, or you can bring a little chaos by aggressively trapping out of it which often leads to some turnovers and makes the opposing offense play at a faster pace unless they are very disciplined. We don't have much size on our team, and often have 5 guards on the floor, so pushing the tempo is important to us.

I did catch some of the K-State game last weekend, and it looked like UT was playing a conservative 2-1-2 which forced K-State into some long possessions. I'm sure Donnie will trap out of it depending on the opponent, so I would look for some higher tempo games as the season rolls on.
 
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#14
#14
Yes he plays slow. Some of you refuse to admit facts and make excuses. I told y'all when he was hired. No his offense is not exciting and its not more fun to watch than Zo's. He has only had teams average 70 points or better 3 times as a head coach. That is the definition of playing slow. His possessions are also always low.

Some just hated Martin so much anything looks better to them. In reality CDT plays slow ball. I don't really care how many he score as long as he wins. I had the same stance with Martin. Some complained about boring ball even though we won. The same people are now making excuses for your even more boring basketball. Its hilarious.
 
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#15
#15
orange parmejohn said:
Interesting stats OP, but I could care less how the possessions per game compare to Martin's, I like watching this team play. They can't shoot a lick, but they look like they are having a blast out there. I really hope Tyndall escapes the NCAA noose.
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I think it's more about some of the players on the team now.
Moore is one of the most exciting guys we've had out there in years.
 
#17
#17
calban said:
Last 4 years, Tyndall has averaged 64.9 p/g.
One of those seasons at Morehead he was running 61.9 p/g. that's Bo ball.
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According to sports-reference.com 3 out of the last 5 yrs CDT has coached......he has avg over 70+ ppg, 1 68 PPG, and the low scoring season that u mentioned but he still managed to win 18 games at Morehead State that yr.
 
#18
#18
All I know is Tydall's style of basketball is WAY more fun to watch than Cuonzo's painful as watching paint drying offense.
 
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#19
#19
volbeast33 said:
According to sports-reference.com 3 out of the last 5 yrs CDT has coached......he has avg over 70+ ppg, 1 68 PPG, and the low scoring season that u mentioned but he still managed to win 18 games at Morehead State that yr.
Click to expand...

I used statsheet.
Throw out the 61.9 season and you would get a higher ppg.
65.6, 67.3,61.9,64.9= last 4
 
#20
#20
some of our tempo is controlled by the tempo of the other team. It is just hard to look at the numbers and have an ah ha moment.
 
#21
#21
ATLVols said:
All I know is Tydall's style of basketball is WAY more fun to watch than Cuonzo's painful as watching paint drying offense.
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Zo would have been great if he had surrounded himself with better offensive minded assistant coaches. Instead, he brought his close friends with him and he paid the price for it. Tyndall brought all his guys here too, but he also went out and obtained an assistant coach that was familiar with SEC ball. Zo also failed to bring energy on the court offensively. He'd always be standing and screaming on defense, but usually he always sat on offense. Zo is a great defensive mind. A great guy, but an average floor coach, especially offensively.
 
#22
#22
Am I the only one who just loves basketball, loves winning and couldn't care less about our tempo or style of play.....just as long as it produces "dubyas"?
 
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#23
#23
keckjm said:
Zo would have been great if he had surrounded himself with better offensive minded assistant coaches. Instead, he brought his close friends with him and he paid the price for it. Tyndall brought all his guys here too, but he also went out and obtained an assistant coach that was familiar with SEC ball. Zo also failed to bring energy on the court offensively. He'd always be standing and screaming on defense, but usually he always sat on offense. Zo is a great defensive mind. A great guy, but an average floor coach, especially offensively.
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Cal is 8-1 and averaging 71ppg, he ditched Kent Williams and hired one of the most respected young assistant coaches in the county, Yanni Hufnagel. I've said it multiple times, but I don't think there's any doubt Cal got a better Zo than we did. He talked at length when he got to Cal about how we was dead set on man 24/7, but that with last years success he would immediately implement that zone at Cal. He also went on to discuss how he was hesitant to let guys push the ball on the break, but that last years squad showed him it can be done within the confines of his system, and that he will give his Cal players that same freedom.
 
#24
#24
IMO, pace of play wasn't the issue with CCM. The guy just wasn't a good fit for East Tennessee, much like Jerry Green. Not sure if that says more about East Tenn, or CCM. Either way, fans weren't buying what they were selling.
 
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#25
#25
bleedingTNorange said:
Cal is 8-1 and averaging 71ppg, he ditched Kent Williams and hired one of the most respected young assistant coaches in the county, Yanni Hufnagel. I've said it multiple times, but I don't think there's any doubt Cal got a better Zo than we did. He talked at length when he got to Cal about how we was dead set on man 24/7, but that with last years success he would immediately implement that zone at Cal. He also went on to discuss how he was hesitant to let guys push the ball on the break, but that last years squad showed him it can be done within the confines of his system, and that he will give his Cal players that same freedom.
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I'll be interested to see if he can recruit scoring posts and pure shooters consistently there. Outside Stokes, Zo's recruiting of post players was terrible. Then, when he finally had two good post prospects committed, we let him leave lol. Just a double shaft. Zo, IMHO, wasn't ready for UT. He was still learning to coach, so, I agree, he will be a better coach at Cal, especially if he drops his dogmatic approach towards man to man. 71 PPG is a good start offensively for him as well. Way better than anything he achieved here.
 
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