So... We actually suck defensively?

#1
utfan72408

utfan72408

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#1
From Medcalf's SEC Power Rankings:

8. Tennessee. The Vols were good enough to hang with Ole Miss on Thursday night. But they couldn’t do more than that. They had a great opportunity to beat one of the SEC’s best. They couldn’t finish. Tennessee was outscored 44-31 in the second half of that 62-56 loss. Now they’ve lost five of their last six games. And I just don’t see how Cuonzo Martin’s program rights this ship when he has one of the worst defensive units (117th in adjusted defensive efficiency per Ken Pomeroy) in the SEC.
Click to expand...

Whaaaaaaaaat. We're only allowing like 61-62 points per game, which by my count is good for 4th in the SEC. Our opponents are hitting 40.9% of their shots, which puts us at 7th in that category. Neither of those make us look as bad as Medcalf says we are.

I always thought that one of the things that this board mostly agreed on was that we had a good defensive squad. But Medcalf (whose power rankings I usually agree with) sites our defensive shortcomings as a reason why we won't bounce back. The only advanced stats I somewhat understand are in baseball; I don't know or understand 'adjusted defensive efficiency.'

Not saying this is right or wrong... I just found it interesting. Any thoughts?
 
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#4
#4
This what addressed a few weeks ago, I think we were 11th at that time. Yes we keep teams points low typically, but that's because we limit possessions by slowing the game down. That stat adjusts to tempo...so if all the sec teams played the same tempo thats where our defense would rank by that theory.
 
#5
#5
Anybody subscribe to kenpom's site? He gives you a better breakdown but you have to pay.
 
#6
#6
Damn... I mean I figured that when you adjusted to tempo we'd get worse relatively but I didn't think we were that bad...

So if we can't score and suck at defense, how have we won 11 games? :)

Just seems weird. Haha.
 
#7
#7
If we're in the middle of the conference in FG% given up, but we're around the bottom in points given up per possession, then we must be terrible at defensive rebounding and/or steals.
 
#8
#8
utfan72408 said:
From Medcalf's SEC Power Rankings:



Whaaaaaaaaat. We're only allowing like 61-62 points per game, which by my count is good for 4th in the SEC. Our opponents are hitting 40.9% of their shots, which puts us at 7th in that category. Neither of those make us look as bad as Medcalf says we are.

I always thought that one of the things that this board mostly agreed on was that we had a good defensive squad. But Medcalf (whose power rankings I usually agree with) sites our defensive shortcomings as a reason why we won't bounce back. The only advanced stats I somewhat understand are in baseball; I don't know or understand 'adjusted defensive efficiency.'

Not saying this is right or wrong... I just found it interesting. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Points per possession is just another tool used to rate team efficiency.
It's biggest fallacy is that it doesn't consider the quality of opponents played , so a team that plays a soft schedule can look superior to a team that plays the best teams in the country. See below:

One of greatest assets of a defense like ours is the ability to make another team play to our tempo.
Martin's goal is a defense that can control tempo by holding the opponent to late in the shot clock, forcing the bad shot or turnover.
We're getting better at it.
Don't put too much stock in those that diss our defense when possession stats are the only thing they use.
You may see the value Saturday.
Arkansas likes to play at about 74 poss per game.
Our Vanderbilt game was played at about 58 poss per game.
Arky struggles when the tempo is that sluggish. Example: SC.
Current SEC SOS Rankings
FL 12
TN 38
Bama 40
GA 42
KY 48
Vandy 51
Missouri 57
TaM 70
Arky 84
Ole Miss 120
LSU 123
Miss St 136
Auburn 141
SC 236

Defensive Points /Poss Rankings
Florida
Ole Miss
Kentucky
Alabama
Arkansas
Missouri
LSU
Georgia
Mississippi State
Texas A&M
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Auburn
South Carolina
 
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#9
#9
calban said:
Points per possession is just another tool used to rate team efficiency.
It's biggest fallacy is that it doesn't consider the quality of opponents played , so a team that plays a soft schedule can look superior to a team that plays the best teams in the country. See below:

One of greatest assets of a defense like ours is the ability to make another team play to our tempo.
Martin's goal is a defense that can control tempo by holding the opponent to late in the shot clock, forcing the bad shot or turnover.
We're getting better at it.
Don't put too much stock in those that diss our defense when possession stats are the only thing they use.
You may see the value Saturday.
Arkansas likes to play at about 74 poss per game.
Our Vanderbilt game was played at about 58 poss per game.
Arky struggles when the tempo is that sluggish. Example: SC.
Current SEC SOS Rankings
FL 12
TN 38
Bama 40
GA 42
KY 48
Vandy 51
Missouri 57
TaM 70
Arky 84
Ole Miss 120
LSU 123
Miss St 136
Auburn 141
SC 236

Defensive Points /Poss Rankings
Florida
Ole Miss
Kentucky
Alabama
Arkansas
Missouri
LSU
Georgia
Mississippi State
Texas A&M
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Auburn
South Carolina
Click to expand...

So in other words, we're not as bad as that statistic might suggest. That's what I hoped. Haha. Thanks for the good info and explanation!
 
#10
#10
ukvols said:
If we're in the middle of the conference in FG% given up, but we're around the bottom in points given up per possession, then we must be terrible at defensive rebounding and/or steals.
Click to expand...

Good call. We're fifth to last in steals! FIFTH TO LAST. That's 343 out of 347. Wow. :blink:
 
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#12
#12
utfan72408 said:
So in other words, we're not as bad as that statistic might suggest. That's what I hoped. Haha. Thanks for the good info and explanation!
Click to expand...

No, they are pretty bad. Look at the Memphis and Ole Miss game at home to find out what happens when the tempo is increased. It exposes how bad the defense really is.
 
#13
#13
calban said:
Points per possession is just another tool used to rate team efficiency.
It's biggest fallacy is that it doesn't consider the quality of opponents played , so a team that plays a soft schedule can look superior to a team that plays the best teams in the country. See below:

One of greatest assets of a defense like ours is the ability to make another team play to our tempo.
Martin's goal is a defense that can control tempo by holding the opponent to late in the shot clock, forcing the bad shot or turnover.
We're getting better at it.
Don't put too much stock in those that diss our defense when possession stats are the only thing they use.
You may see the value Saturday.
Arkansas likes to play at about 74 poss per game.
Our Vanderbilt game was played at about 58 poss per game.
Arky struggles when the tempo is that sluggish. Example: SC.
Current SEC SOS Rankings
FL 12
TN 38
Bama 40
GA 42
KY 48
Vandy 51
Missouri 57
TaM 70
Arky 84
Ole Miss 120
LSU 123
Miss St 136
Auburn 141
SC 236

Defensive Points /Poss Rankings
Florida
Ole Miss
Kentucky
Alabama
Arkansas
Missouri
LSU
Georgia
Mississippi State
Texas A&M
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Auburn
South Carolina
Click to expand...
KenPom is schedule adjusted.
 
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#15
#15
utfan72408 said:
Good call. We're fifth to last in steals! FIFTH TO LAST. That's 343 out of 347. Wow. :blink:
Click to expand...

I wished Tennessee would play a little more aggresively in its half court defense. Tennessee never gets any easy baskets or anything off of a secondary break. This makes for boring basketball.
 
#16
#16
utfan72408 said:
Damn... I mean I figured that when you adjusted to tempo we'd get worse relatively but I didn't think we were that bad...

So if we can't score and suck at defense, how have we won 11 games? :)

Just seems weird. Haha.
Click to expand...
I still don't really understand this. It isn't like there's a special teams we can point to or something.

Does pacing make that big of a difference?
 
#17
#17
Lankykong said:
I still don't really understand this. It isn't like there's a special teams we can point to or something.

Does pacing make that big of a difference?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that our defense isn't very good, therefore the opposition has a pretty good chance of scoring each time down the court.

To compensate for this issue, we slow down the tempo on offense, thus running more clock, so that the opposition has fewer possessions, and thus fewer chances to score against our not-very-good defense.

Confused me at first too.
 
#19
#19
#1ArencibiaFan said:
No, they are pretty bad. Look at the Memphis and Ole Miss game at home to find out what happens when the tempo is increased. It exposes how bad the defense really is.
Click to expand...

That's why I don't get why people want this team to run the court. They cannot win that type of game, especially with the personnel that is out. Next year they may be able to run a little bit more, but this team absolutely cannot. They have to slow it down and grind it out, which they're getting pretty good at doing.
 
#20
#20
The low amount of steals correlates a bit with the strategy to try to force teams to hold the ball until late in the shot clock. Instead of aggressively trying to steal the ball, which would risk getting beaten for easy baskets, they're holding their ground.
 
#21
#21
ukvols said:
The low amount of steals correlates a bit with the strategy to try to force teams to hold the ball until late in the shot clock. Instead of aggressively trying to steal the ball, which would risk getting beaten for easy baskets, they're holding their ground.
Click to expand...

Good point!! We are what we are!!!
 
#22
#22
whobethis16 said:
That's why I don't get why people want this team to run the court. They cannot win that type of game, especially with the personnel that is out. Next year they may be able to run a little bit more, but this team absolutely cannot. They have to slow it down and grind it out, which they're getting pretty good at doing.
Click to expand...

I wanted us to push it because we're much more efficient on offense when we do that. We're not great at it, but we draw a lot more fouls and get quite a few more easy looks when we do it. However... most of that is dependent on Golden.
 
#23
#23
papatomany said:
I wanted us to push it because we're much more efficient on offense when we do that. We're not great at it, but we draw a lot more fouls and get quite a few more easy looks when we do it. However... most of that is dependent on Golden.
Click to expand...

They can't win games trying to run, as was evident with the Ole Miss game at TBA. They were more efficient, but that was the worst deficit of the season, so what is the point?
 
#24
#24
Why are we questioning our defense? Have you not noticed that McBrick has recorded about 40 blow-bys this year, Golden is in the thirties on blow-bys, Hall is out of position 50% of the time, McRae still doesn't understand the concept, and we have absolutely no presence at pg?
 
#25
#25
We're 1st in the SEC in Def Rebounding percentage and 1st in 3pt defense - percentage and points.
Middle of the pack in quite a few other categories.
 
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