Things Could Get Better

[johnnybravo]

Originally Posted by bleedingTNorange

4th with Maymon iirc. So no Maymon all year 5 or 6 would seem more likely and IMO where we'll finish.

Yeah, I was just trying to prove a point about preseason polls. Finishing second last year is more a contribution of Stokes joining the team instead of CCM coaching ability. Same goes for this year. More than likely we will finsh worse than 4th. Again, that is due to the subtraction of Maymon and not CCM coaching ability.

[bleedingTNorange]

Originally Posted by johnnybravo

Yeah, I was just trying to prove a point about preseason polls. Finishing second last year is more a contribution of Stokes joining the team instead of CCM coaching ability. Same goes for this year. More than likely we will finsh worse than 4th. Again, that is due to the subtraction of Maymon and not CCM coaching ability.

Gotcha.

[OrangeBalls]

Even if I knew that we would have Stokes fall into our lap, I still wouldn't have predicted a 2nd place finish.

If you're going to criticize Martin for when the team isn't playing well then you need to give some credit when the team is playing well. That seems to be beneath some people because they've made their mind up thinking Pearl is coming back. That is as likely to happen as T'eo's girlfriend being real.

[volbeast33]

Originally Posted by OrangeBalls

Even if I knew that we would have Stokes fall into our lap, I still wouldn't have predicted a 2nd place finish.

If you're going to criticize Martin for when the team isn't playing well then you need to give some credit when the team is playing well. That seems to be beneath some people because they've made their mind up thinking Pearl is coming back. That is as likely to happen as T'eo's girlfriend being real.

It's bc you look at the 2nd place finish due to a nice little run and winning the tie breaker. That is not the goal though, anything short of a NCAA tournament birth is not a successful season. Is it understandable......yes first yr coach, new system, unsure talent level. Does he need to be fired last yr or after this season? No Is there reason to be very concerned and worried about our future? Yes

[Chris4Vols22]

Originally Posted by volbeast33

It's bc you look at the 2nd place finish due to a nice little run and winning the tie breaker. That is not the goal though, anything short of a NCAA tournament birth is not a successful season. Is it understandable......yes first yr coach, new system, unsure talent level. Does he need to be fired last yr or after this season? No Is there reason to be very concerned and worried about our future? Yes

I can agree with that.

[OrangeBalls]

Originally Posted by volbeast33

It's bc you look at the 2nd place finish due to a nice little run and winning the tie breaker. That is not the goal though, anything short of a NCAA tournament birth is not a successful season. Is it understandable......yes first yr coach, new system, unsure talent level. Does he need to be fired last yr or after this season? No Is there reason to be very concerned and worried about our future? Yes

And who in the hell is suggesting otherwise? Try and find fault in "winning the tiebreaker" of 2nd place all you want. UT got 2nd place. They finished higher than Vandy with 3 NBA draft picks. You have a hard time giving him any credit for that. Hell, anyone with half a damn brain would've taken 2nd before the season started knowing what we had to replace.

I've not seen one person say they are happy with the way this season has gone and that there isn't some uncertainty for the future. I've expressed that a number of times from year 4 going forward. Next year should be good, but after that, who knows. I also can look at things objectively and know that not having Maymon has had an impact on this year's team. People who aren't taking that into account are clueless.

[volbeast33]

Originally Posted by OrangeBalls

And who in the hell is suggesting otherwise? Try and find fault in "winning the tiebreaker" of 2nd place all you want. UT got 2nd place. They finished higher than Vandy with 3 NBA draft picks. You have a hard time giving him any credit for that. Hell, anyone with half a damn brain would've taken 2nd before the season started knowing what we had to replace.

I've not seen one person say they are happy with the way this season has gone and that there isn't some uncertainty for the future. I've expressed that a number of times from year 4 going forward. Next year should be good, but after that, who knows. I also can look at things objectively and know that not having Maymon has had an impact on this year's team. People who aren't taking that into account are clueless.

You do know Vanderbilt lost to Cleveland state, Indiana state, miss state, and Arkansas....they were not as loaded as you make them sound. We did not finish "above" them. They were in the tournament and we were in the nit.

I thought Martin did a pretty decent job last yr but nothing to run around celebrating about. I do have questions about his coaching style but am more worried about his recruiting and how he is molding the team together.

[OrangeBalls]

Originally Posted by volbeast33

You do know Vanderbilt lost to Cleveland state, Indiana state, miss state, and Arkansas....they were not as loaded as you make them sound. We did not finish "above" them. They were in the tournament and we were in the nit.

I thought Martin did a pretty decent job last yr but nothing to run around celebrating about. I do have questions about his coaching style but am more worried about his recruiting and how he is molding the team together.

They were only 1 of 2 teams to beat Ky. They had 3 players drafted in the NBA. That seems pretty damn loaded to me. They underperformed at times, mainly because they didn't have a breakdown point guard, but they were a good team. Tell me the last time UT had 3 players selected in the NBA draft in the same year.

And based on our SEC record, yes we did finish above them. We were the #2 seed in the SEC tourney and got the bye.

[volbeast33]

Originally Posted by OrangeBalls

They were only 1 of 2 teams to beat Ky. They had 3 players drafted in the NBA. That seems pretty damn loaded to me. They underperformed at times, mainly because they didn't have a breakdown point guard, but they were a good team. Tell me the last time UT had 3 players selected in the NBA draft in the same year.

And based on our SEC record, yes we did finish above them. We were the #2 seed in the SEC tourney and got the bye.

They were a good team but I wouldn't call them loaded......they didn't even make a sweet sixteen. Getting a bye in the sec tourney is great but I would trade it all for a spot in the dance.

[OrangeBalls]

Originally Posted by volbeast33

They were a good team but I wouldn't call them loaded......they didn't even make a sweet sixteen. Getting a bye in the sec tourney is great but I would trade it all for a spot in the dance.

If you have 3 NBA picks, you're usually going to be a pretty loaded team. Again, one of only two teams to knock off Ky who was loaded. Whether you make a sweet sixteen or not is irrelevant. Teams get upset all the time and it appears Stallings has perfected the nosedive the last 4 times his teams have been in the tourney. It's all about matchups in every single game.

I wouldn't trade anything for a spot in the dance other than a SEC title and you can pretty much guarantee you'll make it if you finish first. Our bad showing in the OOC part of the schedule doomed us. We win one more game against Ole Miss and we probably make it in.

[dixiebullfrog]

Originally Posted by OrangeBalls

I'd be willing to bet our record would be different with Maymon and not Stokes. He can handle the ball and he is a point forward. The offense went through him on almost every possession unless someone jacked up a quick shot. He also helped Golden bring the ball up the court. He was the leader of the team. Stokes? Not even close.

"A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the ball handling skills and court vision to bring the ball up the court and to initiate the team's offense." [From Wikipedia]

Maymon is NOT a "point forward". He is a power forward who can dribble and pass the ball better than the average PF. He does not run the offense a good % of the time; he does not create opportunities for others to score. He averaged slightly over one assist/pg; he had a high of three assists twice in 33 games last yr.

And, yes, he was the team leader and helped Stokes play better. However, Maymon is not a point forward. Think Kyle Anderson @ UCLA maybe; in the NBA, think Lebron, Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway. They run/ran the offense frequently, both scoring and facilitating for others.

[OrangeBalls]

Originally Posted by dixiebullfrog

"A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the ball handling skills and court vision to bring the ball up the court and to initiate the team's offense." [From Wikipedia]

Maymon is NOT a "point forward". He is a power forward who can dribble and pass the ball better than the average PF. He does not run the offense a good % of the time; he does not create opportunities for others to score. He averaged slightly over one assist/pg; he had a high of three assists twice in 33 games last yr.

And, yes, he was the team leader and helped Stokes play better. However, Maymon is not a point forward. Think Kyle Anderson @ UCLA maybe; in the NBA, think Lebron, Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway. They run/ran the offense frequently, both scoring and facilitating for others.

Then maybe you need to tell Martin that because that is what he calls him. You got any other pearls of wisdom you want to share? Good Lord.

[dixiebullfrog]

Originally Posted by OrangeBalls

Then maybe you need to tell Martin that because that is what he calls him. You got any other pearls of wisdom you want to share? Good Lord.

Yeah; CCM is wrong. The HC saying it doesn't make it right.

Tell me how Maymon fits any accepted description of "point forward".

He doesn't; GOOD LORD!!!

[OrangeBalls]

Originally Posted by dixiebullfrog

Yeah; CCM is wrong. The HC saying it doesn't make it right.

Tell me how Maymon fits any accepted description of "point forward".

He doesn't; GOOD LORD!!!

From your cut and paste:

"A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the ball handling skills and court vision to bring the ball up the court and to initiate the team's offense." [From Wikipedia]

What part of that did Maymon not do? By definition, he did everything in that description.

And you trying to use assists as some barometer that Maymon doesn't facilitate the offense shows what you know about this offense. Hell, Trae Golden, the primary point guard, only averages 3.6 assists per game in his entire UT career. The primary UT point guard who averages almost 30 minutes a game. Maybe you need to watch more basketball.

Damn, you're clueless.

[dixiebullfrog]

[QUOTE=OrangeBalls;8160552]From your cut and paste:

"A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the ball handling skills and court vision to bring the ball up the court and to initiate the team's offense." [From Wikipedia]

What part of that did Maymon not do? By definition, he did everything in that description.

And you trying to use assists as some barometer that Maymon doesn't facilitate the offense shows what you know about this offense. Hell, Trae Golden, the primary point guard, only averages 3.6 assists per game in his entire UT career. The primary UT point guard who averages almost 30 minutes a game. Maybe you need to watch more basketball.
QUOTE]

Assists are 50% of a point forward's game along with normal scoring. That's where the "point" in point forward comes from. Maymon didn't run the offense on a routine basis; certainly didn't hand out assists. Only thing you've highlighted is that Golden hasn't been much of a PG @ UTK. Lots of threads on VN have stated the same. Personally, Trae is a decent PG that the Vols need to play more consistently.

Google it and read that there are very few point forwards in the NBA, and few true pt forwards in the NCAA. Maymon (last year) is not even close to being considered one. Martin may have been trying to pump up his confidence while the kid is out.

I'm done; with respect, you're the "clueless" one in this conversation. And you NEVER change your mind; I get it.