Josh Selby

[johnnybravo]

Originally Posted by bleedingTNorange

I can see that but prince, smith, smith, lofton, maze, and chism(maybe more) all got NBA workouts iirc. It was up to those guys to do something in those workouts and none of them performed or measured out well enough to get the chance.

I get what you're saying though and it works both ways. Good example, players under calipari are now automatically given a higher rating basically. I mean seriously, Daniel orton?

I think if Tyler, JuJuan, Chism, Prince and possibly Lofton wore a uniform with a KY, KS, NC, Duke, UConn, ect of the front then they would have at least been drafted. There is a much better chance of making the league than not being drafted and just working out with a team. It took Watson years to make the league and it is apparent that he can play. Very slim chance to make the league if not drafted....of course there is always an exception to the rule that does make it.

[keckjm]

Originally Posted by johnnybravo

I think if Tyler, JuJuan, Chism, Prince and possibly Lofton wore a uniform with a KY, KS, NC, Duke, UConn, ect of the front then they would have at least been drafted. There is a much better chance of making the league than not being drafted and just working out with a team. It took Watson years to make the league and it is apparent that he can play. Very slim chance to make the league if not drafted....of course there is always an exception to the rule that does make it.

I love the NBA, but the problem is teams in the late first round and all through the second round look for future potential or someone who has a dominate skill. If you're a 6'11" big and can rebound and defend you will get drafted over a Chism who doesn't have a great skill but can do a little of everything. NBA teams have went to drafting "future" foreign player stars in the late 1st round/ 2nd round, and filling the rest with guys who either dropped really low and should have stayed in school a few more years " Josh Shelby" or with proven seniors who have a specific set of skills a team needs i.e. great rebounder, great shooter, etc. Lofton fits this bill better then anyone, but he's simply not athletic enough to play in the NBA, nor has the size to be a 2 guard in the NBA. If Lofton was a great ball handler/ passer, as well as a great shooter, then he'd be in the NBA right now.

[omghulkhands]

Look at it this way for players that don't get a guarenteed roster spot in the draft

There is the D-league, Italy, Greece, Spain, Serbia, China and the list goes on of other places that you can play pro basketball and make a fantastic living, from 80k a year on into the millions. When you land on a euro team and you are making that kind of money and have a comfortable lifestyle you get complacent and lose the motivation to work hard enough to make it to the league. It is just human nature, most of us are that way, props to CJ because he put in the effort to work through and make it.

[cncchris33]

Originally Posted by omghulkhands

Look at it this way for players that don't get a guarenteed roster spot in the draft

There is the D-league, Italy, Greece, Spain, Serbia, China and the list goes on of other places that you can play pro basketball and make a fantastic living, from 80k a year on into the millions. When you land on a euro team and you are making that kind of money and have a comfortable lifestyle you get complacent and lose the motivation to work hard enough to make it to the league. It is just human nature, most of us are that way, props to CJ because he put in the effort to work through and make it.

Not to mention they are making it tax-exempt overseas.

[zansdad]

Originally Posted by cncchris33

Not to mention they are making it tax-exempt overseas.

Almost nothing is tax-exempt . If the US IRS isn't taxing them, then the country they are getting the checks in is.

[keckjm]

Originally Posted by omghulkhands

Look at it this way for players that don't get a guarenteed roster spot in the draft

There is the D-league, Italy, Greece, Spain, Serbia, China and the list goes on of other places that you can play pro basketball and make a fantastic living, from 80k a year on into the millions. When you land on a euro team and you are making that kind of money and have a comfortable lifestyle you get complacent and lose the motivation to work hard enough to make it to the league. It is just human nature, most of us are that way, props to CJ because he put in the effort to work through and make it.

While I agree, the key is Watson had the tools to make it in the NBA. He was known to be a very good ball handler and defender, and then over time he developed a great 3 ball. Once he made it to the D-league he killed it and got his chance with the Warriors. This was a true blessing for him as the Warriors at the time had Don Nelson as their coach. Nelson is a true players coach who loves to play fast, and allows his players to shot when open. Watson then further helped himself by committing only 18 turnovers in 368 mins of play. You might also recall Watson played for the Warriors team that beat the number one seed Mavericks in 08'. My point being, yes, Watson logged the hours in to be great, but he also had a golden opportunity to play under Nelson, and with veteran players like Baron Davis in his prime, Stephen Jackson, and Monta Ellis.

[cncchris33]

Originally Posted by zansdad

Almost nothing is tax-exempt . If the US IRS isn't taxing them, then the country they are getting the checks in is.

http://2xinc.com/index.php/basketbal...basketball-faq

This article seems to disagree. I had always heard that overseas salaries were tax exempt too, along with room and board.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/6781979/nba-lockout-international-options-players

Another article from ESPN.

[BACKDOC]

Originally Posted by Shaun1985

was watching the memphis / cleveland game and seen him. I knew he got drafted but i thought he was playing in the d league. Anyways, it made me think how close we had to having him so i looked him up and forgot how highly ranked he was. Which also reminded me how he was pretty much a bust (as far as how highly ranked he was, regardless of the injury.

Sort of seems like ole bruce just had terrible luck with these highly ranked kids. Imagine if he would of stuck with tennessee then wow.....i'd be mad because college ball seemed like the last thing on that kids mind. Do you think Pearl (minus tobias) just had bad luck with these kinds of kids or was he a bad judgement of talent? I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here or turn this into an argument....was curious what you guys thought.

Also, why does coaches like roy williams or calipari seem to luck up and these kids be just as good as advertized? I'd love to see them hit a dry spell with some of these 5 star kids
Posted via VolNation Mobile

A lot of if's and's and but's

[volbeast33]

Originally Posted by zansdad

Every school exaggerates their players measurables. Harrellson measured an inch taller than Chism. 6'8 1/2" to 6'7 1/2". Not exactly what I would call an NBA body or a difference maker between Jorts and Weezy. Chism actually had a longer wingspan and taller standing reach despite being an inch shorter

DraftExpressProfile: Josh Harrellson, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

DraftExpressProfile: Wayne Chism, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

Actually harrellson 6'9 1/2" in shoes and almost 40 pounds heavier than chism. harrellson has an nba pf body and can even play some center with his girth. He was a second round pick which is pretty much the same thing as an undrafted free agent but earned his spot as a banger inside. chism is an undersized pf without good leaping ability and lacks good speed. That one inch and weight difference is a big deal in the nba.

[zansdad]

Originally Posted by volbeast33

Actually harrellson 6'9 1/2" in shoes and almost 40 pounds heavier than chism. harrellson has an nba pf body and can even play some center with his girth. He was a second round pick which is pretty much the same thing as an undrafted free agent but earned his spot as a banger inside. chism is an undersized pf without good leaping ability and lacks good speed. That one inch and weight difference is a big deal in the nba.

So Harrellson is an inch taller in shoes than without them? I bet the same goes for Chism. As for weight, Chism's listed weight is the same as Dwight Howard's on that site. The long and short of it is Chism played the center position for UT in every game he was in college with the exception of the stretch run his senior year. And during that time I don't remember him getting abused on the post. You can argue all you want but 1" and a few pounds does not make Harrellson's body any more NBA than Chism. Chism is as big or bigger than many PF's in the NBA.

[volbeast33]

Originally Posted by zansdad

So Harrellson is an inch taller in shoes than without them? I bet the same goes for ha. As for weight, Chism's listed weight is the same as Dwight Howard's on that site. The long and short of it is Chism played the center position for UT in every game he was in college with the exception of the stretch run his senior year. And during that time I don't remember him getting abused on the post. You can argue all you want but 1" and a few pounds does not make Harrellson's body any more NBA than Chism. Chism is as big or bigger than many PF's in the NBA.

We can argue what different websites claim but the nba talking heads said that chism was small for a nba pf and had a poor vertical and was too slow to make up for that deficiency. harrellson is not a stud,he is a big bodied rebounder which is why he is on a roster. chism could have possibly made a roster if he had of accepted his try out but he turned it down to start his career over seas. I think the NBA scouts agreed with me.....why do you think he wasn't drafted?

[zansdad]

Originally Posted by cncchris33

Overseas Basketball FAQ

This article seems to disagree. I had always heard that overseas salaries were tax exempt too, along with room and board.

NBA lockout -- international options for players - ESPN

Another article from ESPN.

If they are US citizens they owe taxes in the US unless they meet a couple loop holes. One of which is the team pays the taxes for them in form of a credit. So instead of making 7 million and paying taxes, they make 4 million and the club pays taxes for them(those numbers are just examples). As an American citizen you pay taxes on everything you earn, except what the tax code lets you legally deduct. I doubt "playing basketball" is in the tax code

Also that first link is nothing. You can search for it and get hundreds of hits. Not sure what it is, but since I have never heard of Ryan McBride and his name only brings up that article, and some other random people with the same name, when searched in google, I feel pretty good about wanting more than some unknown dudes word about it.

The ESPN article talks about "after taxes" in the first few paragraph. So there are obviously some tax implications.

[zansdad]

Originally Posted by volbeast33

We can argue what different websites claim but the nba talking heads said that chism was small for a nba pf and had a poor vertical and was too slow to make up for that deficiency. harrellson is not a stud,he is a big bodied rebounder which is why he is on a roster. chism could have possibly made a roster if he had of accepted his try out but he turned it down to start his career over seas. I think the NBA scouts agreed with me.....why do you think he wasn't drafted?

I think Harrellson got drafted because of Calipari's influence. Nothing more. Nothing less. Calipari is in deep with world wide Wes, and his influence runs deep. Chism probably didn't get draft because he was a known commodity and had little to no "upside". But the same goes for Harrellson. I am not arguing Chism should be in the league. What I am arguing that if one or the other should be in the league, it should be Chism. If you were picking up teams in a pickup game, who you taking Chism or Harrellson?

[zansdad]

Originally Posted by cncchris33

Overseas Basketball FAQ

This article seems to disagree. I had always heard that overseas salaries were tax exempt too, along with room and board.

NBA lockout -- international options for players - ESPN

Another article from ESPN.

My own link from an actual tax attorney's website.

General Discussion of Tax Matters for Overseas Basketball Players | Hess Law Group

[keckjm]

Originally Posted by zansdad

I think Harrellson got drafted because of Calipari's influence. Nothing more. Nothing less. Calipari is in deep with world wide Wes, and his influence runs deep. Chism probably didn't get draft because he was a known commodity and had little to no "upside". But the same goes for Harrellson. I am not arguing Chism should be in the league. What I am arguing that if one or the other should be in the league, it should be Chism. If you were picking up teams in a pickup game, who you taking Chism or Harrellson?

I'm not trying to start a argument here, as you're entitled to your own opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. Calipari had zero to do with Harrellson being in the NBA. Like I stated in the above post, NBA is about having a skill set. Harrellson is a rebound/ defender and he's just bigger built then Chism. He also happens to play for a team that have zero back up C as well. Chism plays like a SF, and he isn't athletic enough to play SF in the NBA. As a PF he's undersized and would need to add 15-20 pounds to his frame to bang 82 games in the NBA. That's why Chism isn't in the NBA it's that simple.