Man that doesn't look good

[Hens67]

SERRANO
Tennessee 24–31 8–22 6th (East)
Tennessee 22–30 8–20 6th (East)
Tennessee 31–23 12–18 5th (East)
Tennessee 24-26 11–18 6th (East)
Tennessee: 101–110 (39-78) Total: 390-249-1


RALEIGH
Tennessee 27-29 12-18 5th (East)
Tennessee 26-29 11-19 6th (East)
Tennessee 30-26 12-18 5th (East)
Tennessee 25-29 7-23 6th (East)
Tennessee: 108-113 (42-78) Total: 365-322

 

[HardKnoxVol]

I don't know what any of these numbers mean.

68795843928484940412394871230498127

I can do it too

 

[Vols4us]

OP is comparing Raleigh's tenure to Serrano's with no personal interpretation as to why it occurred. No discussion about the 8 games cancelled/postponed this season due to weather, unable to practice outside, etc. No discussion about the roster left by Delmonico to Raleigh versus the one Raleigh left Serrano. No discussion about the tough early SEC schedule this season. No discussion about the obvious improvement Serrano had last season over Raleigh's best performance.

Will agree the team needs to get it going and stop the horrible defense they are playing. Regardless CDS should be given a 5th season to prove he can do it. The program is clearly better, the results on the field are not this season.

 

[Hens67]

I mean you can spin it however you like
When comparing the records it just doesn't look good

 

[Hens67]

Swept at home by UGA
Committed 10 errors over the weekend
9-11 overall now (1-5) in conference

We committed 6 errors in the weekend series @ FL

We have been outscored 44-25 in 6 sec games

Nobody expected these results so far

 

[Hens67]

He will get another year easily
These stats just blew my mind this am

 

[tnwayback]

Well heck, I'll take your word for it, I just won't look at it then???????what is it??

 

[Volinnooga]

I mean you can spin it however you like
When comparing the records it just doesn't look good

Using OP's analysis, we are no better off with Butch than we were with Dooley.

 

[whobethis16]

Using OP's analysis, we are no better off with Butch than we were with Dooley.

If this year they go 6-6 or 5-7 then it'll be hard to say otherwise. It just really sucks that 4 years in and 2 conference series complete, we're back to being the only team in the conference without a winning record. There's no excuse for that anymore.

 

[knoxville's finest]

We'll lose Chris Betts to the draft, but the next 2 recruiting classes finally have SEC talent.
Not really sure what planet y'all live on, but way in the hell would you be asking for yet another new coach? Have y'all not seen the negative results of changing coaches in football, basketball, and baseball programs?
A few changes should be made for this years team. Hunter Martin should be in the weekend starting rotation. Serrano pitches better from the bullpen. Chris Hall had a great fall camp and great stats at the div 3 level, but has struggled at the plate. Leaving us with no true lead off man and putting Leftridge(true freshman) in the lineup. Hall needs to see playing time during the weekday games. Andrew Lee needs to stay in the DH position. Use the weekday games to find out who is better at 3rd, Rodgers or Langhorne. Same thing with Catcher. Too many K's from Houser and Santiago.

 

[lovavol]

enough of the excuses, OP showed the 2 coaches records for comparison. didn't say fire anyone, or anything else just that they are similar, and it aint good. this isn't a good team, and that's on the coach/AD. so if you don't like facts go live in la la land and stick your head in the sand, that will make it better

 

[vol66]

This is the way I look at it. If josh Dobbs gets hurt before the first game, do people's expectations change?

People that follow baseball thought we were replacing one starting pitcher from last year. Anybody who was following thought Cox and Martin would return and hopefully KS would get his issues fixed or by the end of summer that KS and Marks would battle for the third spot.

Nobody here expected Drake Owenby to be a starter...not even in the midweek...nobody. As good as Marks was in the summer we could only hope it would translate like it has, which is great.

Up until yesterday Martin hadn't looked like he was fully healthy, that could be a big boost and if we can get Cox back to himself we'd be in excellent shape.

None of that explains the poor fielding but I will say, for 2/3rds of last season, the defense was close to putting up a fielding percentage record when they were sitting at .976 (.977 best all time for UT)...that fell off at the end of the season finishing at .971 (.972 would have been 4th and 5th all time at UT)...same coach that's coaching now.

The difference is the players. Maddox committed 5 errors last year, Senzel has 7 already. Senzel didn't get to play much at 2B last year, most of his starts were at DH. Smart had 10 errors last year, Moberg alone has 5 already and Rodgers has 1. And none of the 3 guys including Langhorne are gonna finish close to .300 like Smart did at the plate (I don't think).

None of that may seem like a big deal to some. To some it's just an excuse. It's also reality.

 

[WVU05UT09]

enough of the excuses, OP showed the 2 coaches records for comparison. didn't say fire anyone, or anything else just that they are similar, and it aint good. this isn't a good team, and that's on the coach/AD. so if you don't like facts go live in la la land and stick your head in the sand, that will make it better

We've had one coach of no acclaim fail and another with accomplished credentials nationally. One has failed--the other seemingly is having problems. That makes me think there is a structural issue with Tennessee baseball, i.e. scholarship limits or the league is just too deep to succeed.

 

[BruinVol]

That makes me think there is a structural issue with Tennessee baseball, i.e. scholarship limits or the league is just too deep to succeed.

It's called Vandy and their scholarship "structure".

I posted from the time CDS was hired this was a major uphill battle and mostly it wouldn't reflect upon his coaching skill.

I am not a fan at all of his style of play mainly because of our ball park playing very small but the inability to win recruiting battles against Vandy in state is and will be the biggest problem this program has. And there is nothing ANY coach can do about it unless the NCAA/SEC steps in to stop it.

 

[vol66]

It's called Vandy and their scholarship "structure".

I posted from the time CDS was hired this was a major uphill battle and mostly it wouldn't reflect upon his coaching skill.

I am not a fan at all of his style of play mainly because of our ball park playing very small but the inability to win recruiting battles against Vandy in state is and will be the biggest problem this program has. And there is nothing ANY coach can do about it unless the NCAA/SEC steps in to stop it.

I agree with your stance on Vandy, but I'd like to point out it's not just Vandy.

By the time we hired Serrano, Vanderbilt, Florida and South Carolina were baseball institutions, that's just the eastern side of things of course, LSU and the Mississippi schools are the same. The best of the best in the state were going else where.

It seems to me CDS has repaired the burnt bridges to a degree and he of course has his California connections, but it's a huge up hill battle to overcome the momentum those other programs have been sustaining for at least a decade.

Considering we haven't made a regional under CDS, the recruiting results have been a bit of a surprise to me.

 

[WVU05UT09]

It's called Vandy and their scholarship "structure".

I posted from the time CDS was hired this was a major uphill battle and mostly it wouldn't reflect upon his coaching skill.

I am not a fan at all of his style of play mainly because of our ball park playing very small but the inability to win recruiting battles against Vandy in state is and will be the biggest problem this program has. And there is nothing ANY coach can do about it unless the NCAA/SEC steps in to stop it.

You can PM or reply on here. Care to explain what structure they are operating under and why we can't replicate it?

 

[BruinVol]

I agree with your stance on Vandy, but I'd like to point out it's not just Vandy.

By the time we hired Serrano, Vanderbilt, Florida and South Carolina were baseball institutions, that's just the eastern side of things of course, LSU and the Mississippi schools are the same. The best of the best in the state were going else where.

It seems to me CDS has repaired the burnt bridges to a degree and he of course has his California connections, but it's a huge up hill battle to overcome the momentum those other programs have been sustaining for at least a decade.

Considering we haven't made a regional under CDS, the recruiting results have been a bit of a surprise to me.

66

Nearly all of our high profile recruits are out of state which means we likely are breaking the bank on our 11.7 to get them.

We have to be able to get some lower scholarship guys in state that also can help. Right now that isn't happening at nearly a high enough rate from my view.

Seeing the Farragut vs Maryville hs box score last week is a great example of the problem.

 

[vol66]

66

Nearly all of our high profile recruits are out of state which means we likely are breaking the bank on our 11.7 to get them.

We have to be able to get some lower scholarship guys in state that also can help. Right now that isn't happening at nearly a high enough rate from my view.

Seeing the Farragut vs Maryville hs box score last week is a great example of the problem.

I don't disagree...at all, I think it illustrates both of our points. I think to overcome to a greater degree, we've got to be able to beat some of these teams and we have to do it with whomever we can get and if that means out of state kids for the time being, so be it.

For instance, had we knocked Vandy out of the SEC tourney last year and done enough from there to get to a regional, that would have been big here locally, something to tout in recruiting.

It's not just the financial thing for Vandy, it's the guys they are putting in the bigs, it's the results in the pitching over a very long period of time and you could say the same for several other programs.

 

[508mikey]

If baseball doesnt get better they should drop it and use the money to hire a top notch basketball coach

 

[fryeguy93]

Glad to see the sudden growth of interest in us previously lonely people on the baseball board.

Albeit many are members of the Johnny Majors' Legion of the Miserable Unit- but welcome nonetheless.

 

[DeerPark12]

The Raleigh hire was not just devastating because of his poor coaching and abysmal recruiting that drove our program into the ground.

It was devastating because his four seasons here coincided with a four-year period where SEC baseball went from being a good conference to being without a doubt the best conference. While other teams were winning big and building bigger and better facilities, we had a coach everyone hated that caused fans and donors to avoid the program like the plague.

So Serrano took over a roster that would have struggled to win in the Southern Conference, not to mention the Southeastern, in the best conference in college baseball. Oh, and he has to try and recruit talent to a dead program that plays in the worst stadium in the conference. Most of our peers are playing in facilities that minor league teams would die to play in and we're still having games at a dinosaur.

So despite all that, Serrano won a fair amount of games the last three years by piecing together a lineup and pitching rotation out of players with no business playing at this level and talented underclassmen that he was able to recruit under those circumstances.

So, yes, his three-year record is comparable to Raleigh's. You can use the numbers to spin your opinion of Serrano however you want. But the numbers don't tell the whole story here. His first three seasons, Serrano had to scratch and claw with inferior talent to win games. They took a big step forward last year. Raleigh inherited an SEC roster from Delmonico and ended up squandering the talent and running off guys that were good players, including a guy like Yan Gomes who's a everyday player in MLB. They got worse every year, despite Raleigh stacking the schedule with horrible teams.

All of that said, there is no excuse for how they're playing this year. They have the talent to be competitive in this league right now. They don;t have the talent to win it this year, but they should be in the top half of the league. When I watch them play, I see a team that is tight and pressing because they know they are better than their record. They will either figure it out in their heads or they won't get any better this year.

 

[DeerPark12]

You can PM or reply on here. Care to explain what structure they are operating under and why we can't replicate it?

As a private school, Vanderbilt can award "need-based" scholarships to students that qualify under a certain set of financial and social circumstances. These scholarships are on top of the 11.7 athletic scholarships that the NCAA allows.

What this breeds is a structure where nearly every player on the roster is on a full ride to a quite prestigious academic institution.

How is it legal? Well, that's complicated. But it is and the NCAA has ruled on it several times. Other private schools like Notre Dame and Rice do it as well. But Vandy is the only one that has capitalized on it this well. It has a lot to do with their coach.

Public schools don't have institutional "need-based" scholarships. Many of our in-state players have the lottery scholarship and they can apply for others, but nothing like the setup a private school can have.

 

[StallingsBaldSpot]

As a private school, Vanderbilt can award "need-based" scholarships to students that qualify under a certain set of financial and social circumstances. These scholarships are on top of the 11.7 athletic scholarships that the NCAA allows.

What this breeds is a structure where nearly every player on the roster is on a full ride to a quite prestigious academic institution.

How is it legal? Well, that's complicated. But it is and the NCAA has ruled on it several times. Other private schools like Notre Dame and Rice do it as well. But Vandy is the only one that has capitalized on it this well. It has a lot to do with their coach.

Public schools don't have institutional "need-based" scholarships. Many of our in-state players have the lottery scholarship and they can apply for others, but nothing like the setup a private school can have.

It's legal because it's available to every student. Little Johnny who plays baseball from Oklahoma is eligible for need based aid just as little Sally from New Hampshire who wants to be an English teacher is.

This is not a new Thing. The ivy league schools have been doing this for years. Further, when Opportunity Vanderbilt began, trust me, it was not so the baseball program could succeed. Very few of the powers that be inside Kirkland care about athletics. It's a constant struggle. Which is why I hate it when I see Nick Zeppos basking in the glory of a national championship when I know he doesn't rrally give a damn - a true politician is what he is.

Opportunity Vanderbilt was created to compete with the Ivy's on an academic level. VU tries to limit the debt of each student graduating. The baseball team becoming a national power was just an extra benefit of it.

 

[BruinVol]

It's legal because it's available to every student. Little Johnny who plays baseball from Oklahoma is eligible for need based aid just as little Sally from New Hampshire who wants to be an English teacher is.

This is not a new Thing. The ivy league schools have been doing this for years. Further, when Opportunity Vanderbilt began, trust me, it was not so the baseball program could succeed. Very few of the powers that be inside Kirkland care about athletics. It's a constant struggle. Which is why I hate it when I see Nick Zeppos basking in the glory of a national championship when I know he doesn't rrally give a damn - a true politician is what he is.

Opportunity Vanderbilt was created to compete with the Ivy's on an academic level. VU tries to limit the debt of each student graduating. The baseball team becoming a national power was just an extra benefit of it.

Yea I am sure all students basically pay nothing to go to Vandy

GTFO with that bs

Sure it's available to all students but the amount is the problem

 

[DeerPark12]

It's legal because it's available to every student. Little Johnny who plays baseball from Oklahoma is eligible for need based aid just as little Sally from New Hampshire who wants to be an English teacher is.

This is not a new Thing. The ivy league schools have been doing this for years. Further, when Opportunity Vanderbilt began, trust me, it was not so the baseball program could succeed. Very few of the powers that be inside Kirkland care about athletics. It's a constant struggle. Which is why I hate it when I see Nick Zeppos basking in the glory of a national championship when I know he doesn't rrally give a damn - a true politician is what he is.

Opportunity Vanderbilt was created to compete with the Ivy's on an academic level. VU tries to limit the debt of each student graduating. The baseball team becoming a national power was just an extra benefit of it.

Sure, it wasn't established for baseball or any other equivalency sport to succeed, but the fact that there is no high school GPA or test score component to receiving it means that it definitely benefits athletes over "regular" students. That is does is a credit to those in athletics that found the loophole.

If I wanted to get into Vanderbilt (and then apply for and receive the need-based aid), I would need a 4.0 GPA and a 31-32 on the ACT. A baseball player needs a 3.0 and a 25. Now, that DOES limit the pool from which Corbin can recruit, but let's not pretend that this somehow a level playing field.

And, again, it's been ruled legal, so we have to deal with it because it's not going to change. I'm not complaining about it. But when somebody asks how Vanderbilt is this good in baseball, especially winning recruiting battles, I'm going to answer the question.