Are we really any better at this point?

[volforlife50]

Are we really better at this point than we were in CDS first year? The numbers show, at this point of the season, NO. After comparing the two years here is what I found. Heading into the SC series we were 5-4 in the SEC and 19-10 overall. We went 1-2 at GA. 1-2 at home against, at the time , an undefeated Ky team which had swept SC in a home series. TN swept ALA at home then went to SC. Friday the Vols beat SC and All-American pitcher Michael Roth. Saturday we lost on a walk-off and sunday lost 6-1. The Vols left SC with a 6-6 SEC record. SC went on to finish 2nd in the College World Series.
Nick Williams was the Vols closer at the time, ended the season in a starting role and led the team as a sophomore with 72.2 innings pitched. Freshman pitchers logged 127 innings pitched in 2012. Sophomores logged 145.5 innings pitched.



Things went down hill when Godley was injured and several pitchers being dismissed from the team. As far as the youth excuse, the 2012 team was younger.

I hope this is where the comparison ends and the Vols continue to improve. Bottom line the 2012 team was better at this point in SEC play. Numbers dont lie. Will CDS get it turned around? Pitching was the problem in 2012 and I see little improvement to this point.

Just the facts with a one sentence opinion.

 

[BaseVol4life14]

Good points but I don't see your point about pitching. I'm not sure what numbers you have seen but pitching numbers have improved dramatically. Give this team time, the numbers that matter the most are at years end.

 

[Vols4us]

Good Lawd, OP. We had the #2 team in the nation on the ropes twice on the road and let them slip off the hook. There is a long way to go before the worrying starts. They are significantly better than last season.

 

[ShowmeVols]

Do you remember how CDS had to juggle things last year just to have enough pitchers to be competitive in 2 games each weekend and how we gave up 15, 14, 12, 19 runs on those Sundays when we had flat run out of pitchers? Until he moved Godley to Sundays to match up against the #3's of other teams. Yes we're better at this point.

 

[feathersax]

Pitching & defense immeasurably better! Timely hitting will come in this tough SEC. Full confidence that CDS has Vols on the right track. Going to Knoxville for the weekend series with "vandie". Got my tickets & hotel reservations for Hoover, too. GBO!

 

[captain chaos]

So much better. The quality of players he had his 1st year was awful. Raleigh was one of the worst coaches in vol history. But Todd Raleigh did have a college degree.

 

[Backwards K]

That's a clown question, bro. You obviously have not been paying attention or you have an ax to grind.

 

[DeerPark12]

Are we really better at this point than we were in CDS first year? The numbers show, at this point of the season, NO. After comparing the two years here is what I found. Heading into the SC series we were 5-4 in the SEC and 19-10 overall. We went 1-2 at GA. 1-2 at home against, at the time , an undefeated Ky team which had swept SC in a home series. TN swept ALA at home then went to SC. Friday the Vols beat SC and All-American pitcher Michael Roth. Saturday we lost on a walk-off and sunday lost 6-1. The Vols left SC with a 6-6 SEC record. SC went on to finish 2nd in the College World Series.
Nick Williams was the Vols closer at the time, ended the season in a starting role and led the team as a sophomore with 72.2 innings pitched. Freshman pitchers logged 127 innings pitched in 2012. Sophomores logged 145.5 innings pitched.



Things went down hill when Godley was injured and several pitchers being dismissed from the team. As far as the youth excuse, the 2012 team was younger.

I hope this is where the comparison ends and the Vols continue to improve. Bottom line the 2012 team was better at this point in SEC play. Numbers dont lie. Will CDS get it turned around? Pitching was the problem in 2012 and I see little improvement to this point.

Just the facts with a one sentence opinion.

Looking back through your mostly anti-Serrano posts, I'm not surprised you found a bunch of numbers that made it sound like you have a point.

But if you look at reality or have actually watched the team play even once, you would know there is no comparison between this team and 2012.

 

[ShowmeVols]

And the year-to-date comparisons between 2012 and 2014 will start looking less and less favorable to 2012 as we get into April and May. That team swooned the second half.

 

[Vawlz]

Looking back through your mostly anti-Serrano posts, I'm not surprised you found a bunch of numbers that made it sound like you have a point.

But if you look at reality or have actually watched the team play even once, you would know there is no comparison between this team and 2012.

I cannot believe any rational Vol fan could be anti-Serrano at this point.

We're still 1-2 seasons away from turning the corner in SEC play, but Serrano has done a hell of a job after taking over a totally broken program.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

I cannot believe any rational Vol fan could be anti-Serrano at this point.

We're still 1-2 seasons away from turning the corner in SEC play, but Serrano has done a hell of a job after taking over a totally broken program.

We should expect it at this point.

I can almost guarantee that if the football team ends 5-7 again, which is a possibility given the schedule is once again brutal, some here will really start turning on Jones.

 

[SouthKnoxVOL]

Tennessee won 23 games all of last year.....They have already won 19 this year.

/thread.

 

[vol66]

We won 22 games.

 

[volforlife50]

Good points but I don't see your point about pitching. I'm not sure what numbers you have seen but pitching numbers have improved dramatically. Give this team time, the numbers that matter the most are at years end.

I based my numbers solely on the SC series. I know its a small sample, but the SC series is a good basis to evaluate improvement based on their year to year success. Check the pitcher stats in the SC series for 2012 vs 2014, you might be shocked. As said before I hope this is where the comparisons end. I dont think this years team will have the issues the 2012 team had.

 

[volforlife50]

Looking back through your mostly anti-Serrano posts, I'm not surprised you found a bunch of numbers that made it sound like you have a point.

But if you look at reality or have actually watched the team play even once, you would know there is no comparison between this team and 2012.

Really, Deerpark. Is this the best you have to offer? Your best point is to say I'm "anti-Serrano". Whether you like the numbers or not they are what they are. As I said before I hope the SC series ends the comparisons. I've seen exactly 4 games. I would really like to see you offer some numbers involving SC series to prove me wrong. You know what they say about opinions?

 

[vol66]

Are we really better at this point than we were in CDS first year? The numbers show, at this point of the season, NO. After comparing the two years here is what I found. Heading into the SC series we were 5-4 in the SEC and 19-10 overall. We went 1-2 at GA. 1-2 at home against, at the time , an undefeated Ky team which had swept SC in a home series. TN swept ALA at home then went to SC. Friday the Vols beat SC and All-American pitcher Michael Roth. Saturday we lost on a walk-off and sunday lost 6-1. The Vols left SC with a 6-6 SEC record. SC went on to finish 2nd in the College World Series.
Nick Williams was the Vols closer at the time, ended the season in a starting role and led the team as a sophomore with 72.2 innings pitched. Freshman pitchers logged 127 innings pitched in 2012. Sophomores logged 145.5 innings pitched.



Things went down hill when Godley was injured and several pitchers being dismissed from the team. As far as the youth excuse, the 2012 team was younger.

I hope this is where the comparison ends and the Vols continue to improve. Bottom line the 2012 team was better at this point in SEC play. Numbers dont lie. Will CDS get it turned around? Pitching was the problem in 2012 and I see little improvement to this point.

Just the facts with a one sentence opinion.

This smells like another forum. I'm sure a link to the numbers will be provided.

The 2012 team had 16 Pre-SEC games, they went 10-6.
This years team had 16 Pre-SEC games and went 15-1.

Did the 2012 team have a hitter finish the season at .300 or better? No. Last year there were three (min. 100 AB), we don't know how it will play out this year, but it's certainly on pace to be better even as we've been slumping.

Will Maddox was on that team, he had more at bats than anyone else, he had a team high 33 runs over the course of the season in 2012. He's currently at 22 runs with 27 games to go...he also had the best BA...he's currently 7th.

Two pitchers on that team ended up with an ERA under 4.00 (min. 20 innings), Godley and Steckenrider...Only Nick Williams, Saberhagen and Eric Martin remain from that team. Nick Williams finished 2012 with a 4.33 ERA and it is currently 1.96. The other two haven't pitched for different reasons. Those are the only pitchers left from the 2012 roster to compare. Currently, 3 pitchers (min 20innings) Have under a 2.00 ERA, Williams, Cox and Hunter Martin.

That's a whole lot of arms gone and I'm sure you can tell us how many transferred to D1.

That year's team finished with a team ERA of 4.65.

The current team has a team ERA of 2.83

The only way you're gonna be able to compare this team to that team is the results at the end of the year, but like a lot of folks around here, you want to rush to judgment.

Why don't you just save it up for a few months and unleash your fury then.

 

[volforlife50]

This smells like another forum. I'm sure a link to the numbers will be provided.

The 2012 team had 16 Pre-SEC games, they went 10-6.
This years team had 16 Pre-SEC games and went 15-1.

Did the 2012 team have a hitter finish the season at .300 or better? No. Last year there were three (min. 100 AB), we don't know how it will play out this year, but it's certainly on pace to be better even as we've been slumping.

Will Maddox was on that team, he had more at bats than anyone else, he had a team high 33 runs over the course of the season in 2012. He's currently at 22 runs with 27 games to go...he also had the best BA...he's currently 7th.

Two pitchers on that team ended up with an ERA under 4.00 (min. 20 innings), Godley and Steckenrider...Only Nick Williams, Saberhagen and Eric Martin remain from that team. Nick Williams finished 2012 with a 4.33 ERA and it is currently 1.96. The other two haven't pitched for different reasons. Those are the only pitchers left from the 2012 roster to compare. Currently, 3 pitchers (min 20innings) Have under a 2.00 ERA, Williams, Cox and Hunter Martin.

That's a whole lot of arms gone and I'm sure you can tell us how many transferred to D1.

That year's team finished with a team ERA of 4.65.

The current team has a team ERA of 2.83

The only way you're gonna be able to compare this team to that team is the results at the end of the year, but like a lot of folks around here, you want to rush to judgment.

Why don't you just save it up for a few months and unleash your fury then.

All good points, with the exception that you dont have to take shots at me because you disagree with me. People on here have a way of pounding people who disagree with them. Why have a forum if you cant have open discussion? As for the fury, I'm too old for that. You obviously have emotional ties to the team, me I'm only a fan. I agree that by the end of the season 2014 numbers will be much better. The 2012 team imploded. My whole point is SC is where we need to be. Pitching and defense lost that series. We actually won a game vs SC in 2012 because of pitching and defense. Our pitching stats where much better that series. I understand baseball is a marathon not a sprint but for UT to reach the top we have to improve to the point of beating SC. We have not gained much on the elite teams to this point. As for knowing where the other kids are, I dont, and dont care. Just like you. The pitching staff will improve by recruiting as will the team. All the haters on me missed the part of the statement, "at this point". We failed the SC test hopefully we can pass the Vandy test.

 

[vol66]

All good points, with the exception that you dont have to take shots at me because you disagree with me. People on here have a way of pounding people who disagree with them. Why have a forum if you cant have open discussion? As for the fury, I'm too old for that. You obviously have emotional ties to the team, me I'm only a fan. I agree that by the end of the season 2014 numbers will be much better. The 2012 team imploded. My whole point is SC is where we need to be. Pitching and defense lost that series. We actually won a game vs SC in 2012 because of pitching and defense. Our pitching stats where much better that series. I understand baseball is a marathon not a sprint but for UT to reach the top we have to improve to the point of beating SC. We have not gained much on the elite teams to this point. As for knowing where the other kids are, I dont, and dont care. Just like you. The pitching staff will improve by recruiting as will the team. All the haters on me missed the part of the statement, "at this point". We failed the SC test hopefully we can pass the Vandy test.

How did I "pound you"?

If you don't think we've gained ground, maybe you should listen to Holbrook's post series press conference. Make no mistake, we lost that series.

We haven't gained much in terms of elite pitching compared to the elite teams, I'll give you that. But, in every other area, we've made great strides.

You are also right that I'm very invested...I've watched nearly every game for the last three years...but I'm no homer either...

Making a comparison of two teams that don't share hardly any make up, seems silly at this juncture, wouldn't you agree?

One series does not a season make as you admit.

 

[volforlife50]

How did I "pound you"?

If you don't think we've gained ground, maybe you should listen to Holbrook's post series press conference. Make no mistake, we lost that series.

We haven't gained much in terms of elite pitching compared to the elite teams, I'll give you that. But, in every other area, we've made great strides.

You are also right that I'm very invested...I've watched nearly every game for the last three years...but I'm no homer either...

Making a comparison of two teams that don't share hardly any make up, seems silly at this juncture, wouldn't you agree?

One series does not a season make as you admit.

If the Vols had won the series, heck if we had had even won a game, we would all be on here crowing about how great we are. I'll be at the SC series next year in Knoxville and if we win it I"ll be the first one on here talking about our improvements. Under your pretense of comparing teams we would never be able to compare teams because college teams make-up changes every year. I chose merely to compare pitching while you chose to compare offense, agreed? Holbrooks statement , come on, opposing coaches always praise the other team in post game. You are a homer and thats alright, passion is good.

 

[volforlife50]

How did I "pound you"?

If you don't think we've gained ground, maybe you should listen to Holbrook's post series press conference. Make no mistake, we lost that series.

We haven't gained much in terms of elite pitching compared to the elite teams, I'll give you that. But, in every other area, we've made great strides.

You are also right that I'm very invested...I've watched nearly every game for the last three years...but I'm no homer either...

Making a comparison of two teams that don't share hardly any make up, seems silly at this juncture, wouldn't you agree?

One series does not a season make as you admit.

If the Vols had won the series, heck if we had had even won a game, we would all be on here crowing about how great we are. I'll be at the SC series next year in Knoxville and if we win it I"ll be the first one on here talking about our improvements. Under your pretense of comparing teams we would never be able to compare teams because college teams make-up changes every year. I chose merely to compare pitching while you chose to compare offense, agreed? Holbrooks statement , come on, opposing coaches always praise the other team in post game. You are a homer and thats alright, passion is good. I"ll bet CDS is already thinking to the future needs to make the Vols better.

 

[Burger]

If the Vols had won the series, heck if we had had even won a game, we would all be on here crowing about how great we are. I'll be at the SC series next year in Knoxville and if we win it I"ll be the first one on here talking about our improvements. Under your pretense of comparing teams we would never be able to compare teams because college teams make-up changes every year. I chose merely to compare pitching while you chose to compare offense, agreed? Holbrooks statement , come on, opposing coaches always praise the other team in post game. You are a homer and thats alright, passion is good.

What? Our Era is down almost two full runs from last year. We have more pitchers under 2 than last year.

 

[Backwards K]

50, are you really evaluating this team based on how they did in a 3 game series this year vs how they did in a 3 game series 2 years ago?

 

[volforlife50]

50, are you really evaluating this team based on how they did in a 3 game series this year vs how they did in a 3 game series 2 years ago?

More of an evaluation of our program vs top teir SEC programs. Would you agree that SC program has set the bar for the SEC east? SC and Vandy have been the only teams in the SEC east to win on a yearly basis. So would you say that evaluating our performance against these teams would measure our improvement or lack thereof? I'm sure that every team in the league looks at SC and says "thats where we need to be". My point is against SC there has been no improvement in our pitching, numbers wise it was actually worse. In my opinion the Vandy series will be good to check our progress. FYI: I will never give Vandy any more praise.

 

[vol66]

If the Vols had won the series, heck if we had had even won a game, we would all be on here crowing about how great we are. I'll be at the SC series next year in Knoxville and if we win it I"ll be the first one on here talking about our improvements. Under your pretense of comparing teams we would never be able to compare teams because college teams make-up changes every year. I chose merely to compare pitching while you chose to compare offense, agreed? Holbrooks statement , come on, opposing coaches always praise the other team in post game. You are a homer and thats alright, passion is good. I"ll bet CDS is already thinking to the future needs to make the Vols better.

Listen, I did compare the pitching. Looking back on that roster the only question mark I have is Robbie Kidd. He had a rough summer, I don't know the situation.

Other than him I feel pretty confident, based on the short sample size that guys like Peterson, Lenstrohm, Bettencourt and Owenby are better than Conner Stevens, Carter Watson, Zajac, and Vanderplas.

We lack a bulldog like last years Godley.

I think my real issue is this expectation that a coach should be able to completely rebuild a roster and beat National Championship teams in three years.

If you'll browse around I'd been warning that I was worried about what would happen in the event that we were below .500 after the Vandy series, which means to say, homer that I am, didn't believe that we had the elite pitching to contend with SC, Vandy and LSU (unless THEY had some sort of fall, and they haven't). And, sadly it IS happening.

Comparing last years team and looking for improvement, without even looking at the stats...Taylor Smart is better. Houser is better. Simcox is better. Andy Cox is night and day better. Bettencourt is better. Then there are the freshmen like Senzel, Maggio and Serrano...project out a year or two they will be better.

I would even say that we've had issues with recruiting, but it seems that at least an attempt has been made to right that with CAT coming aboard, we'll have to wait and see.

Maybe you and I disagree on whether there has been improvement, or to what degree. That's fine and debate worthy...but really, your belief is that this team isn't better than what he inherited?

 

[volfan411]

South Carolina is a great example of what stability will do for a program. They had their backs to the wall in both of the first two games and never lost their composure. That is what you get when you have players in your program for four years and by playing in those type of games week in and week out. I do not want to use youth as an excuse but it was obvious that when Serano took over he was going to have to purge the program of players who were not SEC caliber players. Our youth was evident late in both of those games and it showed by the untimely errors and our closers not getting the job done.