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Old 01-10-2013, 10:25 AM   #61
DeerPark12
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Good post. Certainly you are observing from a closer seat than I am. What I am hearing is from strictly the hs side of things. Winning cures all and when this staff wins and I think they will, the complaining I am hearing will slow substancially.
I think what kids know about their reasons for departure and the reasons that they then share with their former high school and travel ball coaches are quite often two different stories. Does that hurt relationships between coaches and UT? Sure it does. And maybe the staff can do a better job of communicating with those coaches in the recruiting process what exactly the chance is that they are giving their players.

But, I don't want the staff to be held hostage by kids that aren't doing what is expected of them just for the sake of keeping relationships with mid-state coaches, and I don't think you do, either. And I'm not suggesting that's what you're saying.

Based on talking to people who have been a part of the program, I don't think anyone on the team has been blindsided by any of these roster moves, at least not since the player meetings after last season. Meeting the expectations of the coaching staff on and off the field goes beyond meeting the minimum measurables of times and GPA.

Guys know what is expected of them and every person that has left the program knows exactly why their tenure in the uniform ended. I've heard that at least two players have told their summer ball coaches that they have no idea why they were released. That's just false, but you can't stop a kid from telling people that.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:38 AM   #62
MIH_Baseball
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I may be new to this board, but hope that the UT Baseball program grows to be a successful one.

Along with other things, here are 2 that make a program successful:

1. Coaches go and find the players that can hit and pitch. If they are from Tennessee great, if they are not, even better. The more diversity and bigger the talent pool you pull from the better. The SEC is a big pond and we need big fish.

2. Those players who can hit and pitch will want to go to UT, not because their HS coach like the UT coaches, but because other good players who can hit and pitch are going there. This translates into winning baseball which turns into Hoover, Regionals, Super Regionals, CWS and most importantly ESPN / TV coverage.

Anyone ask Nick Sabin if all the Alabama HS coaches like him? Or more importantly, if he cares?
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:50 AM   #63
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I think what kids know about their reasons for departure and the reasons that they then share with their former high school and travel ball coaches are quite often two different stories. Does that hurt relationships between coaches and UT? Sure it does. And maybe the staff can do a better job of communicating with those coaches in the recruiting process what exactly the chance is that they are giving their players.

But, I don't want the staff to be held hostage by kids that aren't doing what is expected of them just for the sake of keeping relationships with mid-state coaches, and I don't think you do, either. And I'm not suggesting that's what you're saying.

Based on talking to people who have been a part of the program, I don't think anyone on the team has been blindsided by any of these roster moves, at least not since the player meetings after last season. Meeting the expectations of the coaching staff on and off the field goes beyond meeting the minimum measurables of times and GPA.

Guys know what is expected of them and every person that has left the program knows exactly why their tenure in the uniform ended. I've heard that at least two players have told their summer ball coaches that they have no idea why they were released. That's just false, but you can't stop a kid from telling people that.
There is no way to keep exiting kids from saying negative things about a program even if they are false. The key should be to limit Thoses leaving the program. Recruit the right guys or develop the ones that turn out to be less than thought is the key. Harris is the one that bothers me the most. Word is that the staff never saw him pitch at all(also heard they saw one inn). If that's the approach then mistakes are going to happen much more than is acceptable in evaluating.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:28 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by MIH_Baseball View Post
I may be new to this board, but hope that the UT Baseball program grows to be a successful one.

Along with other things, here are 2 that make a program successful:

1. Coaches go and find the players that can hit and pitch. If they are from Tennessee great, if they are not, even better. The more diversity and bigger the talent pool you pull from the better. The SEC is a big pond and we need big fish.

2. Those players who can hit and pitch will want to go to UT, not because their HS coach like the UT coaches, but because other good players who can hit and pitch are going there. This translates into winning baseball which turns into Hoover, Regionals, Super Regionals, CWS and most importantly ESPN / TV coverage.

Anyone ask Nick Sabin if all the Alabama HS coaches like him? Or more importantly, if he cares?

Great entry for post #1. Truer words were never spoken!!

Basically, sign better players and more better players will follow them. If your better players are better than their better players, you will win!
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:44 PM   #65
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Bruin,
I'm not sure I entirely agree with you on the revolving door issue and the importance of limiting attrition.

Look at South Carolina. They generally bring in 20 recruits with every signing class, have somewhere in the mid-40's in fall practices, and don't make their final cuts until a couple days before the season starts. These numbers require them to have about a 50% attrition of new recruits by the end of the freshman year.

South Carolina is at the high end, but the majority of SEC teams also have models that require substantial attrition. I don't know of any consistently successful teams that don't operate on the "bring in a bunch of thoroughbreds and let the true talent reveal itself through internal competition" plan.

Maybe we'll level out some day with the revolving door spinning a little slower, but it will always revolve.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:48 PM   #66
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Bruin,
I'm not sure I entirely agree with you on the revolving door issue and the importance of limiting attrition.

Look at South Carolina. They generally bring in 20 recruits with every signing class, have somewhere in the mid-40's in fall practices, and don't make their final cuts until a couple days before the season starts. These numbers require them to have about a 50% attrition of new recruits by the end of the freshman year.

South Carolina is at the high end, but the majority of SEC teams also have models that require substantial attrition. I don't know of any consistently successful teams that don't operate on the "bring in a bunch of thoroughbreds and let the true talent reveal itself through internal competition" plan.

Maybe we'll level out some day with the revolving door spinning a little slower, but it will always revolve.
I agree it will never end but spinning a little slower is needed. If it doesn't slow the apr is going to get dangerous. It will slow soon IMO.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:50 PM   #67
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Can someone refresh me on the roster rules? Obviously 35 man is set before the season and no one else can play for that year. Do redshirts count against the 35? What about if they aren't on scholarship? Do scholarship guys automatically count against the 35? Whats to stop a walk-on from practicing through the spring and joining the process again next fall? Are they allowed to practice? Does a medical redshirt make a difference? Also- kind of a random question- but if you for instance have 33 guys at the start of a season, can you add eligible guys on campus to fill the other 2 slots after the season starts?

Feel free to answer any of those you feel confident about. Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:55 PM   #68
BruinVol
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Can someone refresh me on the roster rules? Obviously 35 man is set before the season and no one else can play for that year. Do redshirts count against the 35? What about if they aren't on scholarship? Do scholarship guys automatically count against the 35? Whats to stop a walk-on from practicing through the spring and joining the process again next fall? Are they allowed to practice? Does a medical redshirt make a difference? Also- kind of a random question- but if you for instance have 33 guys at the start of a season, can you add eligible guys on campus to fill the other 2 slots after the season starts?

Feel free to answer any of those you feel confident about. Thanks in advance.
RS do count if they practice past opening day

Any kid that started the year on scholarship does count toward the 35 even if they leave.

Medical redshirts don't count towards the 35 if a waiver is given.


You can add kids if your under 35.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:50 PM   #69
ShowmeVols
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Can someone refresh me on the roster rules? Obviously 35 man is set before the season and no one else can play for that year. Do redshirts count against the 35? What about if they aren't on scholarship? Do scholarship guys automatically count against the 35? Whats to stop a walk-on from practicing through the spring and joining the process again next fall? Are they allowed to practice? Does a medical redshirt make a difference? Also- kind of a random question- but if you for instance have 33 guys at the start of a season, can you add eligible guys on campus to fill the other 2 slots after the season starts?

Feel free to answer any of those you feel confident about. Thanks in advance.
The team has to submit the squad list (the NCAA's term for roster) before the beginning of the season.

Only players on the squad list may practice or use the team facilities for workouts.

Everyone who receives athletic money during the school year counts against the 35 man limit.

Players who are required to sit out a year under the transfer rules must appear on the squad list and count against the limit if they want to practice or use team facilities once the season starts.

Potential red shirts being held out of competition with a view to preserving eligibility for future seasons must also appear on the squad list and count against the limit if they want to practice or use team facilities once the season starts.

"Medical redshirt" is an informal term having to do with whether a player can avoid losing a year of eligibility because of a season-ending injury. It doesn't affect the roster count.

A scholarship player still counts whether he plays, gets cut in the fall, or has a season-ending injury during or before the season.

A non-scholarship player counts once he is on the squad list submitted at the beginning of the season, regardless of whether he plays or gets hurt.

It is permissible to add players to the roster once the season starts if there is room under the limit. It happens most often in sports like basketball whose seasons span parts of two semesters and with football teams scrounging for spare kickers.

Does that answer them all?

Last edited by ShowmeVols; 01-10-2013 at 10:55 PM..
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:55 PM   #70
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The team has to submit the squad list (the NCAA's term for roster) before the beginning of the season.

Only players on the squad list may practice or use the team facilities for workouts.

Everyone who receives academic money during the school year counts against the 35 man limit.

Players who are required to sit out a year under the transfer rules must appear on the squad list and count against the limit if they want to practice or use team facilities once the season starts.

Potential red shirts being held out of competition with a view to preserving eligibility for future seasons must also appear on the squad list and count against the limit if they want to practice or use team facilities once the season starts.

"Medical redshirt" is an informal term having to do with whether a player can avoid losing a year of eligibility because of a season-ending injury. It doesn't affect the roster count.

A scholarship player still counts whether he plays, gets cut in the fall, or has a season-ending injury during or before the season.

A non-scholarship player counts once he is on the squad list submitted at the beginning of the season, regardless of whether he plays or gets hurt.

It is permissible to add players to the roster once the season starts if there is room under the limit. It happens most often in sports like basketball whose seasons span parts of two semesters and with football teams scrounging for spare kickers.

Does that answer them all?
Darn good job. One thing you taught me.

A transfer counts against the number even if they don't practice after opening day???
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:59 PM   #71
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Does that answer them all?
Thanks. Great breakdown.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:06 PM   #72
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Darn good job. One thing you taught me.

A transfer counts against the number even if they don't practice after opening day???

It's hard to imagine a scenario in which a transfer wouldn't practice if he has any hope of playing the following year. Even if he's hurt, he'll need to access to the training staff.

Technically, I suppose a transfer could practice in the fall, practice from January until the squad list is submitted, then watch the games from the stands, work out in the school's rec facilities, play in a summer league, and come back eligible. But he'd miss out on all the instruction, team bonding, skill development, and everything else about the season. I don't think it would be a good plan for making the team the following year.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:13 PM   #73
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It's hard to imagine a scenario in which a transfer wouldn't practice if he has any hope of playing the following year. Even if he's hurt, he'll need to access to the training staff.

Technically, I suppose a transfer could practice in the fall, practice from January until the squad list is submitted, then watch the games from the stands, work out in the school's rec facilities, play in a summer league, and come back eligible. But he'd miss out on all the instruction, team bonding, skill development, and everything else about the season. I don't think it would be a good plan for making the team the following year.
Another good post. We could enjoy a good baseball trip together I have a feeling.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:30 PM   #74
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Thanks. I agree.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:14 AM   #75
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I agree it will never end but spinning a little slower is needed. If it doesn't slow the apr is going to get dangerous. It will slow soon IMO.
Because of the way athletic scholarships were allocated the last two years, the program is not expected to have APR issues going forward.
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