How do we fix the problem?

#1

mlindsay

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#1
I like many other poster are growing increasingly tired of the product I am seeing put on the floor game in and game out.

It is hard to find out what truly is the issue but there is certainly issues troubling this team. I am in no way going to make this a trash Holly post. As a person who has coached Rec ball, at the AAU level and been an assistant at the High School level I am very aware of what it takes to build and maintain a successful program. Of course I haven't done it at the Collegiate Level, but basketball is basketball.

Over the years it seems as though some of the UT players and coaches feel entitled. It seems as though they feel like things are suppose to be given to them because they are playing on and for this storied program.

The Lady Vols program has always had standards and to allow those standards to decimate is troubling on all parties involved.

It is not too late to right the ship for all involved but simply waiting until next year (when the #1 recruiting class arrives) isn't going to cut it.

A return to glory (our tradition) needs to happen now.

I am offering some solutions;

1. Play those who show that they are willing to leave it all on the floor.

There are too many times where players are rewarded playing time simply because (we have a short bench) but to send a message you play who's going to give you what you are asking for as a coach. I don't care if it is one of your stars, if they aren't playing like you demand of them they sit. (Geno does it all the time and doesn't care if him sending a message causes him a lost he knows what is best for his team moving forward)

If I can get more out of Nunn or Harris than I can get out of Russell (rebounding and defensively) then they are going to cut into her (Russell) minutes and the same goes for other players. No one should feel that they are entitled anything, they should know that they always have to work hard or they will sit.

2. Take the name off the Jersey's


They need to understand who they are playing for and who they represent. Yes they are representing their families name but for four years they are part of the Lady Vols family and that should be their priority.

3. Decide on how you want them to play


Holly contradicts herself because one minute she says she wants them to get Russell her touches and everything goes through her and then she says she needs Reynolds to push the ball and she wants them to attack.


If we are attacking then Russell isn't getting her touches. Which is why I would like to see Russell and Nunn play about the same amount of minutes to see who provides us with the best chance at that 5 spot.
The reason stated is she (Nunn) doesn't have to touch the ball or have the offense go through her to be successful. She is aggressive on the offensive glass which is where she gets her points. Playing Russell less and rewarding Nunn more would hopefully send a message to Russell that she needs to dominate or sit.


Any other suggestions?
 
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#3
#3
I like #2. It's a honor to have your name on the back of a rich traditional team like the Lady Vols. That being said I think it's time to go without the names and create a Allin One team mindset. I think we have too many players trying to look cute and flashy out there and not being productive doing it. At times its like they are just out there to play and not win. It shouldn't take a visit from Kara Lawson or a Candace Parker to motivate this team. Just have more pride in your school.
 
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#5
#5
I think this exercise is moot because Holly has said many times.... if she knew what was wrong she would fix it.... and i do not think she will look at this forum for answers.... and if so, she won't use them...
 
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#7
#7
I think the answer is not listed in the first post.... yes i am in support of #1 and #3 especially.... but Holly and her staff have to teach the fundamentals... and practice them until they get them right every time.... she has to condition her team better, so that we do not hear in pressers how tired they were as excuse for not rebounding better, or poor things having to play 3 games in a week (as all other teams do)..... and in general EXPECT MORE from them..... I heard, for instance, Holly last night saying publicly she is not going to criticize Nared for getting only 3 rebounds because she has been playing pretty well lately.... This is unacceptable!!! at least to me... with Holly it is fine.
 
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#8
#8
With Nunn getting playing time and therefore getting
conditioning and rust removed from her game she can
be exceptional.
 
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#9
#9
I think the answer is not listed in the first post.... yes i am in support of #1 and #3 especially.... but Holly and her staff have to teach the fundamentals... and practice them until they get them right every time.... she has to condition her team better, so that we do not hear in pressers how tired they were as excuse for not rebounding better, or poor things having to play 3 games in a week (as all other teams do)..... and in general EXPECT MORE from them..... I heard, for instance, Holly last night saying publicly she is not going to criticize Nared for getting only 3 rebounds because she has been playing pretty well lately.... This is unacceptable!!! at least to me... with Holly it is fine.

Exactly, which to me is the underlying problem, as I have stated certain players get a pass while others are pulled when they do something wrong. That should not be the case or course some coaches give their stars special treatment, I believe all my players are created equal (which is what has made UConn successful and has kept them where they are). Geno doesn't care who you are, if you not given what he is asking for you can sit or you can leave. He want what is best for his program
 
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#10
#10
With Nunn getting playing time and therefore getting
conditioning and rust removed from her game she can
be exceptional. This also helps free Diamond for grabbing mid range rebounds instead of getting under
the rim.
 
#11
#11
Time for a better hard-nosed coach (man or woman) with a proven winning record is what's needed. Who that would be is anyone's guess. The powers that be at UT still think Holly is good enough to get the job done. When fans stop showing up for games & in showing their support for this coach the upper powers at UT will move to do something for the betterment of the Lady Vols BB team.....and a new change in assistant coaches wouldn't hurt either.
 
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#12
#12
The solution is easy: fire Holly, and go make the hire we should have made 5 years ago, but didn't because honoring Pat's recommendation was the right thing at the time.

She is a fan and career assistant. Now we know why no one took a chance on her as a HC.
 
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#13
#13
Hire an Athletic Director, and let them straighten it out. At this point in the case of LV basketball, excellence has been replaced with excuse making, team execution is replaced with individual effort or lack thereof, and decisiveness with desperation. You don't close a sword wound with a band aid.

We need coaches who can lead and players who can follow, not clever fan suggestions. And to those who say wait till next year, you said the same thing...LAST year.
 
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#14
#14
Hire an Athletic Director, and let them straighten it out. At this point in the case of LV basketball, excellence has been replaced with excuse making, team execution is replaced with individual effort or lack thereof, and decisiveness with desperation. You don't close a sword wound with a band aid.

We need coaches who can lead and players who can follow, not clever fan suggestions. And to those who say wait till next year, you said the same thing...LAST year.

Bingo
 
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#16
#16
But we recruiting better players and based on rankings we have some of the best players in the country right?

One of the few things I agree with you. We currently have some of the "best" and "highest ranked" players in the country...with more on the way.

I could go on ALL DAY about my opinion on this and why it is the demise of the LV program. The LV program was built on and still tries to compete with the philosophy that if we have the BEST player and BEST athletes we can put them on the floor and have them PLAY HARD and they can beat all the "inferior" players we face. It doesn't work anymore. There are too many good players out there and rankings are way too misleading to actually know who is best.

Until the LVs have a "system", an "offensive scheme", or whatever you care to call it.....then recruit the players that can fill the necessary rolls of that plan....we keep getting what we got.
 
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#17
#17
I like many other poster are growing increasingly tired of the product I am seeing put on the floor game in and game out.

It is hard to find out what truly is the issue but there is certainly issues troubling this team. I am in no way going to make this a trash Holly post. As a person who has coached Rec ball, at the AAU level and been an assistant at the High School level I am very aware of what it takes to build and maintain a successful program. Of course I haven't done it at the Collegiate Level, but basketball is basketball.

Over the years it seems as though some of the UT players and coaches feel entitled. It seems as though they feel like things are suppose to be given to them because they are playing on and for this storied program.

The Lady Vols program has always had standards and to allow those standards to decimate is troubling on all parties involved.

It is not too late to right the ship for all involved but simply waiting until next year (when the #1 recruiting class arrives) isn't going to cut it.

A return to glory (our tradition) needs to happen now.

I am offering some solutions;

1. Play those who show that they are willing to leave it all on the floor.

There are too many times where players are rewarded playing time simply because (we have a short bench) but to send a message you play who's going to give you what you are asking for as a coach. I don't care if it is one of your stars, if they aren't playing like you demand of them they sit. (Geno does it all the time and doesn't care if him sending a message causes him a lost he knows what is best for his team moving forward)

If I can get more out of Nunn or Harris than I can get out of Russell (rebounding and defensively) then they are going to cut into her (Russell) minutes and the same goes for other players. No one should feel that they are entitled anything, they should know that they always have to work hard or they will sit.


2. Take the name off the Jersey's


They need to understand who they are playing for and who they represent. Yes they are representing their families name but for four years they are part of the Lady Vols family and that should be their priority.

3. Decide on how you want them to play


Holly contradicts herself because one minute she says she wants them to get Russell her touches and everything goes through her and then she says she needs Reynolds to push the ball and she wants them to attack.


If we are attacking then Russell isn't getting her touches. Which is why I would like to see Russell and Nunn play about the same amount of minutes to see who provides us with the best chance at that 5 spot.
The reason stated is she (Nunn) doesn't have to touch the ball or have the offense go through her to be successful. She is aggressive on the offensive glass which is where she gets her points. Playing Russell less and rewarding Nunn more would hopefully send a message to Russell that she needs to dominate or sit.


Any other suggestions?


Leaving it on the floor.

Nunn had success last night because Bama was double and triple teaming Mercedes. She took advantage of the gaps and deserves credit for stepping up. But suggesting the Mercedes was slacking vis a vis Nunn is not looking at the bigger picture.

If you want to identify the one factor that costs the LVs this game (other than the Diamond injury) it was Bama's domination of the offensive boards.

As I saw it, the LVs were making an effort to win these balls but Bama was just quicker than they were.

For all the "we have so MUCH TALENT!!!!!!", the reality is that this is not a quick team. Diamond and Meme are the only players who seem to have high degree of natural quickness.

We have some other players who can play fairly quick in bursts but it clearly takes a lot of effort and energy - I put Jordan, Nared (and on the lower end of the curve Alexa) in this camp (and realize that this a relative comparison -- such as when matched against Bama's smaller and naturally quicker players). Nunn is also of this type and if you notice she ran out of steam after a mighty, mighty 3 quarter effort.

Mercedes has slow reflexes which we saw on full display.

Before this game, I had not given any stock to the fatigue excuse but the combination of tough schedule, where players have to play in their proverbial red zone, and a short (and ever shortening bench due to injuries and fouls) is clearly taking a toll. You can see it in Nared's performance drop. Her legs are dead; she picks up fouls because her lateral quickness is gone; her shot is flat and so on. She is a player, in particular, i would give a break to before the tournaments start, despite the short term costs (but only if Diamond is back and ready to go).

Take the names off the jerseys..

Like kicking the team out of the locker room, that disciplinary approach assumes the team just needs a kick in the butt and they will play awesome "BECAUSE THEY HAVE SO MUCH TALENT ANYTHING OTHER THAN DOMINATION MUST BE BECAUSE THEY DON"T WANT IT!!!!" Per above, I don't think that is the case at all. Do you really think taking the "Middleton" or the "Dunbar" off those player's respective uniforms will suddenly make them lock down defenders or make Mercedes, sans her jersey name, start beating people up and down the court on fast breaks, Glory Johnson style? The LVs are running up against the physical limitations of their players.

3. How they should play.

Well, it kind of has to both doesn't it. When teams triple Mercedes, forcing the ball inside is a recipe for disaster. Since the team is sketchy in long ball shooting, attacking the rim because the next best option.

But, this team needs to play smarter (and that is where coaching failings loom large); They keep making mistakes at the end of the quarter when they could hold for the last shot. Instead, they take a shot early in the clock (and usually miss) and as last night, the opponent scores, gaining a little momentum.

Unforced TOs, getting in each others way on set plays and losing players on defensive switches are part of the myriad mistakes we are seeing game in and game out. And those mistakes make it even harder for this team to win games when the pressure is on and fatigue is taking its toll.

Fixing it (Or at least Band-aiding it)

For this season, we have the coach we have and the players we have. Holly and staff need to figure how to get this team ready for the tournament. That might mean upping the minutes for Nunn and Dunbar, her only really chess pieces to move around, and lowering the load on Nared and Russell for the rest of the SEC season.

I am not worried about Diamond; she seems like the kind of player who could 40 minutes 100 miles every game forever. Even Middleton, who may not be the quickest, seems to have an endurance runners' stamina and is probably playing better now than at any other point in the season. I think Meme has more to offer as well.

But when it comes to the tournament - this team needs its Big 3 plus Jordan all playing well or it will be a short and frustrating tourney run.

MTV
 
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#18
#18
Exactly, which to me is the underlying problem, as I have stated certain players get a pass while others are pulled when they do something wrong. That should not be the case or course some coaches give their stars special treatment, I believe all my players are created equal (which is what has made UConn successful and has kept them where they are). Geno doesn't care who you are, if you not given what he is asking for you can sit or you can leave. He want what is best for his program

And also commenting on the style of the coach up north, if player plays 3 good games and is screwing up in the 4th game, he will never say "this player i will not get on her case because she has been doing well lately".... he will point out the problem to the player.... otherwise how will she get better.... I wish Holly did not settle for whatever her players give her, and demanded more of them.... how are they going to get better otherwise....

Back when I was in school, if I had a class where my professor was cajoling me along, being happy with whatever I brought to the class, graded exams on a curve, etc.... do you think i was going to bust my butt studying for that class? Of course not. If allowed to skate by, young people will do just that , take the path of least resistance.
 
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#19
#19
Holly Warlick is not a charismatic coach...never has been, never will be...but in spite of that, I think there are things she could do help this team maximize their abilities as a team going forward in the current season. First thing...she loves to play man to man defense...and the team struggles to guard against dribble penetration by quicker guards on almost every team in the SEC...so...I would play more zone, pack it inside, don't play Russell 15-20 feet from the rim like I saw last night so often, dare teams to beat you from the perimeter where points are more difficult to make, instead of watching them dribbling around our slow of foot defenders who look like they just stepped in freshly poured cement! Russell's rebounds would increase significantly, put her butt under the rim! Play Russell and Nunn together both on the floor more minutes, requiring more zone again, make rebounding a priority again in this situation...stop giving up dribble penetration! Guard the damn baseline...again made easier if you have them playing zone and packed inside. This team in man to man is playing right into the hands of opponents...stop beating yourself! Middleton could play more minutes and perform much better defensively in zone...Middleton, DD, Nared, Nunn, and Russell...and ZONE!!!
 
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#21
#21
Seems to me that the players have lost confidence in the system, whatever that is. And in the absence of confidence, doubt soon takes over.

What, exactly, gives players confidence?
And who is responsible for instilling that confidence?

The answers are there.
 
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#22
#22
I like many other poster are growing increasingly tired of the product I am seeing put on the floor game in and game out.

It is hard to find out what truly is the issue but there is certainly issues troubling this team. I am in no way going to make this a trash Holly post. As a person who has coached Rec ball, at the AAU level and been an assistant at the High School level I am very aware of what it takes to build and maintain a successful program. Of course I haven't done it at the Collegiate Level, but basketball is basketball.

Over the years it seems as though some of the UT players and coaches feel entitled. It seems as though they feel like things are suppose to be given to them because they are playing on and for this storied program.

The Lady Vols program has always had standards and to allow those standards to decimate is troubling on all parties involved.

It is not too late to right the ship for all involved but simply waiting until next year (when the #1 recruiting class arrives) isn't going to cut it.

A return to glory (our tradition) needs to happen now.

I am offering some solutions;

1. Play those who show that they are willing to leave it all on the floor.

There are too many times where players are rewarded playing time simply because (we have a short bench) but to send a message you play who's going to give you what you are asking for as a coach. I don't care if it is one of your stars, if they aren't playing like you demand of them they sit. (Geno does it all the time and doesn't care if him sending a message causes him a lost he knows what is best for his team moving forward)

If I can get more out of Nunn or Harris than I can get out of Russell (rebounding and defensively) then they are going to cut into her (Russell) minutes and the same goes for other players. No one should feel that they are entitled anything, they should know that they always have to work hard or they will sit.

2. Take the name off the Jersey's


They need to understand who they are playing for and who they represent. Yes they are representing their families name but for four years they are part of the Lady Vols family and that should be their priority.

3. Decide on how you want them to play


Holly contradicts herself because one minute she says she wants them to get Russell her touches and everything goes through her and then she says she needs Reynolds to push the ball and she wants them to attack.


If we are attacking then Russell isn't getting her touches. Which is why I would like to see Russell and Nunn play about the same amount of minutes to see who provides us with the best chance at that 5 spot.
The reason stated is she (Nunn) doesn't have to touch the ball or have the offense go through her to be successful. She is aggressive on the offensive glass which is where she gets her points. Playing Russell less and rewarding Nunn more would hopefully send a message to Russell that she needs to dominate or sit.


Any other suggestions?

We cannot leave Holly completely out of the equation. Some of the things you mentioned can only completely change at the direction of the coaching staff. I feel that the players we have, have not been fully developed, or they are ignoring coaching instructions and are going rogue. This team either need an entirely new coaching staff or a change in direction. If either change occurs I am good with it.
 
#23
#23
I think we just do the best we can this season until we get reinforcements. Were weak at point guard and have no bench.
When three players play 69 minutes and their total production is 7 points and 3 rebounds you certainly have personnel problems. We have to play Jackson and Reynolds only perimeter options we have.
I have noticed in some of the wins Holly played Diamond, Mercedes, and Jaime 40 minutes and Reynolds got 35 plus. Middleton, Jackson, and Nunn divided the other minutes mostly going to Middleton.
I can see the light at the end of the tunnel with the six players that will be playing on the roster next season in addition to everyone except Reynolds back.
I think it should be a put up or shut year for Holly as she will have an enormous amount of talent and no one should get tired or worn out from playing to many minutes.
If she loses more than five games next season we should pack her bags if Diamond, Mercedes, and Jaime all come back to join the new roster players. I hope they do want to see if Holly can do anything with what will probably be the a top three talented roster next season.
 
#24
#24
Bitter truth. This program is as ordinary as dishwater. Sixth place in a not very tough conference. I see the same thing in Connecticut's future five years after Gino hangs 'em up unless their A.D. insists on following Gino with another top notch coach regardless of his or her background. Inbreeding has consequences.
 

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