they are who we thought they were

[Darth_Vol]

And just like that all the positivity from Monday is gone and we're painfully reminded how great coaching is still the outlier with this team, not the norm....

 

[alexvol]

And just like that all the positivity from Monday is gone and we're painfully reminded how great coaching is still the outlier with this team, not the norm....

Yep .Sad but true and nothing ....absolutely nothing.... is going to change in the near future.

 

[Spook1]

lol:Same old crap...turnovers. Lady Vols had 22 turnovers with 21 of them after the first quarter. DeShields had 9 turnovers. Auburn scored 34 points off turnovers. DeShields needs to be benched now. Auburn scored almost more points off the turnovers of DeShiels than the 20 points she scored. Lady Vols played better when she was benched for three games!!!! When is Warlick going to get off her behind and do something about turnovers?

And just like that all the positivity from Monday is gone and we're painfully reminded how great coaching is still the outlier with this team, not the norm....

 

[Voltopia]

Yep. A team down two guards, one senior and the other of which is a top ranked and highly skilled point guard, which doesn't have enough roster depth to make up for it. Losing Cooper was just a kick in the gut which we've not solved yet. I'm not trying to deflect coaching responsibility for some of the problems, either, but I think what we're seeing this year has as much to do (or maybe more) with recruiting misses as it does coaching misses -- combined with the horrible misfortune of losing those two guards. UT's down to almost nothing in the backcourt, and if Holly subs too far we go off the rails half the time. Her hands are tied at this point, or at least, it feels like they are. She's going to get whatever those first 5-6 players give her, and that's about all Tennessee can muster this year. We'll be lucky to have the gas to even get to the tournament, much less advance. I wasn't too surprised that they looked dead; they left everything they had at home in the Notre Dame game. Some guards should shoot the ball, and some should handle it ... right now we're short on the ones that can handle it, I guess.

I'm not looking to next year as an excuse, but once they reload and get Cooper back, I expect a better team. At substituting, if nothing else. Sigh.

 

[madtownvol]

Okay, win the LVs win, it is all because the players found a way and when they lose it is all about Holly.

Here is what this game showed. It exposed the myth that the LVs have the "talent" to be NC contenders.

Auburn beat us athletically; they were quicker and had more depth. That had to be one of the most tenacious defensive presses I have ever seen. They were relentless through the 2nd and 3rd quarters and never broke down by over committing (and that is good coaching on the part of Auburn). But, a press only works when you can dominant the other team athletically. Diamond and Mercedes were the only players we had who could match up. Jordan was over matched but she looked like Russell Westbrook compared to Middleton. Auburn were the sharks and poor Alexa was the blood soaked prey.

When you look at the stats, rebounding was dead even 30 to 31 (LVs), though I think a junk of the LV rebounds came when the game was effectively over and the shooting % was actually closer than I expected 50 to 46% (LVs). The big stat were the 22 turnovers that Auburn generated.

The LVs had not faced that kind of pressure and lacked the athleticism at their PG to cope with it.

So, yes Holly could have, in theory coached a better game, but her available answers were Middleton and Dunbar. Nothing against those players but in this game, that was like bringing safety scissors to a gun fight.

 

[madtownvol]

Yep. A team down two guards, one senior and the other of which is a top ranked and highly skilled point guard, which doesn't have enough roster depth to make up for it. Losing Cooper was just a kick in the gut which we've not solved yet. I'm not trying to deflect coaching responsibility for some of the problems, either, but I think what we're seeing this year has as much to do (or maybe more) with recruiting misses as it does coaching misses -- combined with the horrible misfortune of losing those two guards. UT's down to almost nothing in the backcourt, and if Holly subs too far we go off the rails half the time. Her hands are tied at this point, or at least, it feels like they are. She's going to get whatever those first 5-6 players give her, and that's about all Tennessee can muster this year. We'll be lucky to have the gas to even get to the tournament, much less advance. I wasn't too surprised that they looked dead; they left everything they had at home in the Notre Dame game. Some guards should shoot the ball, and some should handle it ... right now we're short on the ones that can handle it, I guess.

I'm not looking to next year as an excuse, but once they reload and get Cooper back, I expect a better team. At substituting, if nothing else. Sigh.

Cooper would have really helped; they desperately needed a quicker, more athletic guard to rebuff the Auburn press.

 

[volnationnj]

I don't buy the fatigue excuse. They were tired in the second quarter after blowing out Auburn in the first ? Or tired right after the halftime break ?
True, Holly is shorthanded and Cooper may have helped some. But that is no excuse for the total collapse that occurred in the second and third quarters. What you saw in those 2 quarters was a team that appeared to be without the slightest idea of how a press should be broken.
Bty. There are successful teams whose starters
play 35+ minutes each in important games. Not ideal but it can be done if necessary and the team is properly prepared for it.

 

[Bah Humbug]

Yep. A team down two guards, one senior and the other of which is a top ranked and highly skilled point guard, which doesn't have enough roster depth to make up for it. Losing Cooper was just a kick in the gut which we've not solved yet. I'm not trying to deflect coaching responsibility for some of the problems, either, but I think what we're seeing this year has as much to do (or maybe more) with recruiting misses as it does coaching misses -- combined with the horrible misfortune of losing those two guards. UT's down to almost nothing in the backcourt, and if Holly subs too far we go off the rails half the time. Her hands are tied at this point, or at least, it feels like they are. She's going to get whatever those first 5-6 players give her, and that's about all Tennessee can muster this year. We'll be lucky to have the gas to even get to the tournament, much less advance. I wasn't too surprised that they looked dead; they left everything they had at home in the Notre Dame game. Some guards should shoot the ball, and some should handle it ... right now we're short on the ones that can handle it, I guess.

I'm not looking to next year as an excuse, but once they reload and get Cooper back, I expect a better team. At substituting, if nothing else. Sigh.

You already talking net year. Same Holly. Same Underachieving. Next year you'll be talking the year after that. The problem is CHW, can't you see?

 

[feathersax]

Well, that euphoria disappeared quick as a hiccup! :whistling:

 

[armchair]

Please stop with the 'next year' stuff. We had Cooper last year, by the way--and had a horrible season. Talent, players, need to be coached--coached well, led well. We'll just muddle along as a complete mediocrity until the next AD hires a real coach.

 

[Amb3096]

Okay, win the LVs win, it is all because the players found a way and when they lose it is all about Holly.

Here is what this game showed. It exposed the myth that the LVs have the "talent" to be NC contenders.

Auburn beat us athletically; they were quicker and had more depth. That had to be one of the most tenacious defensive presses I have ever seen. They were relentless through the 2nd and 3rd quarters and never broke down by over committing (and that is good coaching on the part of Auburn). But, a press only works when you can dominant the other team athletically. Diamond and Mercedes were the only players we had who could match up. Jordan was over matched but she looked like Russell Westbrook compared to Middleton. Auburn were the sharks and poor Alexa was the blood soaked prey.

When you look at the stats, rebounding was dead even 30 to 31 (LVs), though I think a junk of the LV rebounds came when the game was effectively over and the shooting % was actually closer than I expected 50 to 46% (LVs). The big stat were the 22 turnovers that Auburn generated.

The LVs had not faced that kind of pressure and lacked the athleticism at their PG to cope with it.

So, yes Holly could have, in theory coached a better game, but her available answers were Middleton and Dunbar. Nothing against those players but in this game, that was like bringing safety scissors to a gun fight.

Auburn's bread and butter is their full court press, but I think you're making them out to be like UConn with those accolades. West Virginia handled their press just fine. So did Kansas State. And Tulane. And Virginia Tech. South Carolina completely shredded it. In all of these losses, the winning team had more turnovers than they normally do and AU got their share of steals, but they didn't let AU turn those extra possessions into points. The fact that the rebounding was even just proves how badly Tennessee played because they are a much bigger team. There was a possession where AU got 3 offensive rebounds, and on two of them Jordan was standing still staring at the ball come out of the cylinder while one of the AU guards sprinted from behind her to grab the ball. No boxing out.

While the matchup exposed some of Tennessee's weakness with ball handling, it didn't have to result in them not boxing out and not playing defense. Much like the other teams that beat AU this year, they could have won in spite of the turnovers if they took care of business on the defensive end. They didn't. They let their turnovers affect the rest of their game, and played porous defense and didn't box out for rebounds.

 

[savannahfan]

Looking back, it seems to me a whole lot of this teams problems started with the coming of DeShields. I know the team was not too good and it was thought she was a savior, but why did she leave her first school? Begins to smack of a certain football player we had this year...

 

[Hoya Saxa]

I've seen a lot of improvement with Russell this season. If she continues to grow her game, she will be a first round WNBA pick.

Diamond is no better than she was in high school. Her athleticism is off the charts, but she doesn't play team-first basketball. Unless her attitude changes, the team (and its chemistry) will continue to flounder with inconsistencies.

 

[Amb3096]

I've seen a lot of improvement with Russell this season. If she continues to grow her game, she will be a first round WNBA pick.

Diamond is no better than she was in high school. Her athleticism is off the charts, but she doesn't play team-first basketball. Unless her attitude changes, the team (and its chemistry) will continue to flounder with inconsistencies.

She doesn't play team first basketball, yet she had 8 assists tonight?

She gets in trouble when she plays too much team first basketball. Sometimes, she just needs to uncomplicate matters and take over the game instead.

 

[Amb3096]

Looking back, it seems to me a whole lot of this teams problems started with the coming of DeShields. I know the team was not too good and it was thought she was a savior, but why did she leave her first school? Begins to smack of a certain football player we had this year...

Aaaaaannnnndddd....on cue, back to blaming Diamond.

The team's problems started because of the sub-par coaching. That's when all the losses to unranked teams started popping up.

 

[teacherdean]

Okay, win the LVs win, it is all because the players found a way and when they lose it is all about Holly.

Here is what this game showed. It exposed the myth that the LVs have the "talent" to be NC contenders.

Auburn beat us athletically; they were quicker and had more depth. That had to be one of the most tenacious defensive presses I have ever seen. They were relentless through the 2nd and 3rd quarters and never broke down by over committing (and that is good coaching on the part of Auburn). But, a press only works when you can dominant the other team athletically. Diamond and Mercedes were the only players we had who could match up. Jordan was over matched but she looked like Russell Westbrook compared to Middleton. Auburn were the sharks and poor Alexa was the blood soaked prey.

When you look at the stats, rebounding was dead even 30 to 31 (LVs), though I think a junk of the LV rebounds came when the game was effectively over and the shooting % was actually closer than I expected 50 to 46% (LVs). The big stat were the 22 turnovers that Auburn generated.

The LVs had not faced that kind of pressure and lacked the athleticism at their PG to cope with it.

So, yes Holly could have, in theory coached a better game, but her available answers were Middleton and Dunbar. Nothing against those players but in this game, that was like bringing safety scissors to a gun fight.

It is so strange how MSU and Auburn have taken less stars and coached them up while we have taken more stars and coached them down. The major issue with this team, besides a short bench, is we seem to lack a sense of urgency when things go South and the ability to play four full quarters of aggressive play. We are very easily distracted and lack the necessary focus to consistently come back from a bad situation. There is far too many players watching the game while they are being out rebound by shorter players. They like the want to characteristics that all great teams have. We may not like it or have a difficult time admitting, but there appears to be a disconnect between the players and coaches. Judging from Holly's pressers, she and her coaches are coaching the players but they just seem not to get it. If that does not change, next year might be better but not by a large degree.

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

I thought Middleton got WAY to many minutes early on. She was in the game the entire time that Auburn made that comeback. Dunn also came in at the same time, so with Middleton looking clueless on offense and not wanting to shoot the ball and Nunn still looking a little shaky, its no wonder Tennessee only managed a few points for the 2nd quarter. Would things have turned out differently if Holly kept the same lineup for the entire half? Credit Auburn though for making adjustments..once that press was on, it was like blood in the water

Great gameplan by Holly with the ND WIN but she dropped the ball with the auburn loss

Middeton was a 5 star mcdonalds all american recruit, but even in the mcdonalds all star game she turned the ball over a bunch. Maybe Holly needs to reevaluate how Middleton is used.

 

[Volfan2012]

It would have helped if Holly would have during the timeouts slowed the game down and used all the players to get the ball across half court. I think we needed to play Auburn in a slower game some teams you just have to play that way. Not being able to beat the press is why we lost 22 turnovers. They were about plus 15 in shots attempted. Very hard to win with those stats.

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

It would have helped if Holly would have during the timeouts slowed the game down and used all the players to get the ball across half court. I think we needed to play Auburn in a slower game some teams you just have to play that way. Not being able to beat the press is why we lost 22 turnovers. They were about plus 15 in shots attempted. Very hard to win with those stats.

Game also reminded me of the 2010 Georgetown game where Tennessee gave up like 30 turnovers to their press..

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

It would have helped if Holly would have during the timeouts slowed the game down and used all the players to get the ball across half court. I think we needed to play Auburn in a slower game some teams you just have to play that way. Not being able to beat the press is why we lost 22 turnovers. They were about plus 15 in shots attempted. Very hard to win with those stats.

Agree with you here. We played right into auburns hand. Auburns press was the most effective ive seen against the lady vols since the georgetown game

 

[lvocd]

No. 1 priority for the coaching staff should be:

Holly should have ZERO input on which players to recruit and which to not to. I say this because after Caldwell left, Pat put Holly in charge of talent evals. It was at that point it suddenly began to feel like many of our players were "recruiting misses" who aren't quite what the program needs to succeed in this era. Too many are too slow with no lateral quickness, or can't jump, or can't make shots, or couldn't guard a lawn chair.

I have heard many a person saying that Holly should leave the decisions about which players we go after to ANYone else on the staff.

 

[madtownvol]

Looking back, it seems to me a whole lot of this teams problems started with the coming of DeShields. I know the team was not too good and it was thought she was a savior, but why did she leave her first school? Begins to smack of a certain football player we had this year...

You might want to both look back more closely and also watch Diamond play. Without her, this team would be in a very bad way.

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

You might want to both look back more closely and also watch Diamond play. Without her, this team would be in a very bad way.

Diamond has kept Tennessee in a lot of games and has won games that Tennessee wouldnt have won if not for her points, so i def agree with you here. Diamond does lose focus and gets down on herself way to quickly and it just goes downhill from there.

 

[alexvol]

I don't buy the fatigue excuse. They were tired in the second quarter after blowing out Auburn in the first ? Or tired right after the halftime break ?
True, Holly is shorthanded and Cooper may have helped some. But that is no excuse for the total collapse that occurred in the second and third quarters. What you saw in those 2 quarters was a team that appeared to be without the slightest idea of how a press should be broken.
Bty. There are successful teams whose starters
play 35+ minutes each in important games. Not ideal but it can be done if necessary and the team is properly prepared for it.

Agree .The top ranked team in the country does not have a problem with a 7 person rotation and the two subs play very little .When Holly substituted at the end of 1st quarter ( we were leading at the time by 17 points ) and Middleton was promptly beaten for a layup,all the momentum was lost and it was down hill for Auburn after that.That was a coaching decision that cost them the game imo.If they are not in shape to play 40 minutes or 35 minutes that is a coaching problem .Shorty up there in the North has his starting 5 play the entire game when it is close .I would point out that this was the same thing that happened in the Notre Dame game ....we jumped out to a lead and Holly substituted and the 2nd and 3rd quarters were all Notre Dame but fortunately they were able to come back.In this case the team threw in the towel about 4/5 minutes into the 3rd quarter.....that also is a coaching problem.This is a terrible road team and that is a coaching problem ......gird your loins because there will be many more just like this one on the road .....and maybe even at home just like the Baylor game .

 

[Voltopia]

Please stop with the 'next year' stuff. We had Cooper last year, by the way--and had a horrible season. Talent, players, need to be coached--coached well, led well. We'll just muddle along as a complete mediocrity until the next AD hires a real coach.

It's not like I'm saying we'll be "back" next year or anything, I'm just saying at least they'll have more to work guards with next year and good grief do we apparently need more guards. They lose Nunn and Reynolds, get Cooper back, and add two more talented players who hopefully have ball handling. Right now we seem to lack anyone who can play point consistently. And yeah, last year wasn't a thrilling success but 22-14 and getting to the Elite Eight is better than this year's team likely can manage. I mean, it ain't like I'm doing a jig about any of this. I didn't say anything about her coaching acumen; I was just saying that at this point UT is backed into a corner with their available guards (and recruiting is a staff responsibility). That's all.