coaching discussion (split)

[Amb3096]

I don't believe we're being hurt by negative recruiting. UT has hurt itself with bad basketball. Top prospects want to play with title contenders, and we've not shown ourselves to be a title contender for a long time. That's the issue. The negative recruiting line of thought is bogus, IMO--I don't believe that our recruiting as anything to do with that. As for Staley, she's got a lot going for her--but it's also true that neither she nor South Carolina have ever won anything. They can't hold a candle to UT in terms of program prestige and pedigree.

Recruits want to play for Geno
Recruits want to play for Muffett
Recruits want to play for Tara
Recruits want to play for Kim
Recruits want to play for Dawn

I doubt there is a single recruit in the nation who has dreamed about playing for Holly. And those that have dreamed about playing for Tennessee probably realize that it would be a much different (and less attractive) experience without Pat at the helm.

 

[JustaChicken]

Recruits want to play for Geno
Recruits want to play for Muffett
Recruits want to play for Tara
Recruits want to play for Kim
Recruits want to play for Dawn

I doubt there is a single recruit in the nation who has dreamed about playing for Holly. And those that have dreamed about playing for Tennessee probably realize that it would be a much different (and less attractive) experience without Pat at the helm.

You speak the truth.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Recruits want to play for Geno
Recruits want to play for Muffett
Recruits want to play for Tara
Recruits want to play for Kim
Recruits want to play for Dawn

I doubt there is a single recruit in the nation who has dreamed about playing for Holly. And those that have dreamed about playing for Tennessee probably realize that it would be a much different (and less attractive) experience without Pat at the helm.

how about Jeff Waltz?

 

[Coach Jumper]

Recruits want to play for Geno
Recruits want to play for Muffett
Recruits want to play for Tara
Recruits want to play for Kim
Recruits want to play for Dawn

I doubt there is a single recruit in the nation who has dreamed about playing for Holly. And those that have dreamed about playing for Tennessee probably realize that it would be a much different (and less attractive) experience without Pat at the helm.

I agree with what the earlier poster said about Dawn Staley. Many of the top prospects are African American and Staley, as an African American woman, has a pull once given to Stringer and more recently Pokey Chatman. I would bet money that LSU would have a title if Chatman had stayed the coach. Staley is in that seat now and has stockpiled a lot of talent at SC. She doesn't have a thick resume but it took a few trips to the final four for Pat to get her title.

I don't know if she is or not. But Dawn Staley is an African-American woman who can relate to a lot of black young women. No disrespect intended, but look at the top 100 players ranked by these recruiting services websites. I would say almost every player is black. Dawn also has been successful on every level, a recent Final Four appearance, has led the nation in attendance the last few seasons plus she's an Olympian. She has a lot she can sell to recruits and their parents. So if negative darts are being thrown her way, she can sustain. Holly and staff will just have to endure with some sort of strategic plan to assure recruits and there parents to not believe the lies and attacks and that they will be in good hands if they choose to attend the University of Tennessee.

Are you people thinking about and reading what you are writing? Kids are "coming out" in middle school in this era of non-gender identity. And if race had any true relevance in decisions, then the list of coaches that are above would be four African American coaches and one Caucasian coach.

The only true relevance to that list is the girls who go through those coaching staffs, got/get better.

If a family of an athlete or the athlete herself is basing her decision on where to go to college based on race, gender or sexual orientation of the coaching staff... I'm not sure I would want such a cancer in my organization.

 

[gule]

why all this love for dawn staley?

imho, she's the most overated coach since joanne McCallie.

 

[PineyBluff Vol]

You speak the truth.

Coach Summitt is no longer relevant in today's game. I know I will hear about that. The fact is that these players today have eyes and they can see what type of program a coach is producing, not what a program once produced. They are also human in the fact that they want to play on a team where they will be successful. Yes, winning is a part of being successful.

 

[Amb3096]

Are you people thinking about and reading what you are writing? Kids are "coming out" in middle school in this era of non-gender identity. And if race had any true relevance in decisions, then the list of coaches that are above would be four African American coaches and one Caucasian coach.

The only true relevance to that list is the girls who go through those coaching staffs, got/get better.

If a family of an athlete or the athlete herself is basing her decision on where to go to college based on race, gender or sexual orientation of the coaching staff... I'm not sure I would want such a cancer in my organization.

That's not the point. The point is that those coaches I listed are either the current legends, or the up and coming stars. Holly is neither. You can't sell Tennessee legacy to recruits, because that legacy left with Pat, and Holly has yet to create her own. It's not the same place as it was 10 years ago, and with each passing year that Holly fails to create her own legacy, the more difficult it will be to hitch on Pat's.

Players want to a.) play for a championship level team b.) play for a dynamic coach that will bring out the best in them and perhaps c.) get a free ride to an exceptional academic institution (i.e. Notre Dame, Duke, Stanford, Vandy). Tennessee can offer none of these, and that's why it's not as easy to attract the top talent. All Holly can really sell is what Tennessee once was.

 

[mlindsay]

That's not the point. The point is that those coaches I listed are either the current legends, or the up and coming stars. Holly is neither. You can't sell Tennessee legacy to recruits, because that legacy left with Pat, and Holly has yet to create her own. It's not the same place as it was 10 years ago, and with each passing year that Holly fails to create her own legacy, the more difficult it will be to hitch on Pat's.

Players want to a.) play for a championship level team b.) play for a dynamic coach that will bring out the best in them and perhaps c.) get a free ride to an exceptional academic institution (i.e. Notre Dame, Duke, Stanford, Vandy). Tennessee can offer none of these, and that's why it's not as easy to attract the top talent. All Holly can really sell is what Tennessee once was.

I totally agree! I hope she can turn things around (an hopefully with the addition of Reeves to the staff who has seemed to energize recruits and their parents she might get her chance.) She has made it to 3 elite 8's and each time her coaching abilities showed (people want to blame injuries) but you can coach up a scheme to get your team through a game. Syracuse was a prime example, they killed us from the outside and we never truly had a game plan/made adjustments which seem to be her biggest flaw. I am optimistic that she might get a better class this recruiting season and hopefully she can find a way to put her in game pride aside and let the players play and not handcuff them.

 

[travis929]

That's not the point. The point is that those coaches I listed are either the current legends, or the up and coming stars. Holly is neither. You can't sell Tennessee legacy to recruits, because that legacy left with Pat, and Holly has yet to create her own. It's not the same place as it was 10 years ago, and with each passing year that Holly fails to create her own legacy, the more difficult it will be to hitch on Pat's.

Players want to a.) play for a championship level team b.) play for a dynamic coach that will bring out the best in them and perhaps c.) get a free ride to an exceptional academic institution (i.e. Notre Dame, Duke, Stanford, Vandy). Tennessee can offer none of these, and that's why it's not as easy to attract the top talent. All Holly can really sell is what Tennessee once was.

I disagree. Regardless of what you think of Holly as a coach, Tennessee can offer elite facilities and a program that consistently hosts one of the nation's largest crowds, night in and night out (we've been in the top two every year under Holly). Also nearly every Lady Vols game is televised in some way or another, with many games played on national networks.

Knoxville also hosts the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame, which I would think would offer a player a unique opportunity to engage with history and meet basketball legends over her four years as a Lady Vol.

 

[LadyVol1908]

Holly has gotten injury ridden teams to the game right before the FF for how many years now....I think she can sell that and the fact that a recruit can be the one to get us over that hump and restore UT's return as a national powerhouse. She's not as bad of a coach people try to make her out to be. Did Dawn or Muffet or Walz make it to the EE game last year or no?

 

[mlindsay]

Holly has gotten injury ridden teams to the game right before the FF for how many years now....I think she can sell that and the fact that a recruit can be the one to get us over that hump and restore UT's return as a national powerhouse. She's not as bad of a coach people try to make her out to be. Did Dawn or Muffet or Walz make it to the EE game last year or no?

ND lost to Stanford by 6 who beat us by 14 in the regular season
SC lost to Syracuse by 8 who blew us out by 22
Louisville lost to Depaul by 1 (I will give you that) but Holly had a far easier road (it was laid out for her to play in the title game against UConn and she failed to do it. Waltz hasn't struck out with recruits either and has done far more with far less than Holly has had, stop being a Homer and call a Spade a Spade. We will see if she can get it done this year. But Injuries/suspensions happen ask Bill Beliechick (spell check) you still have to coach players up. His team is 2-0 without their franchise QB and he took a team to the playoffs when his franchise QB was out for the season and his team never lost a beat. He understands how to coach them up/adapt to his teams strengths. Enough of the excuses for Holly. She has to get it done, point blank!

 

[volnationnj]

Holly has gotten injury ridden teams to the game right before the FF for how many years now....I think she can sell that and the fact that a recruit can be the one to get us over that hump and restore UT's return as a national powerhouse. She's not as bad of a coach people try to make her out to be. Did Dawn or Muffet or Walz make it to the EE game last year or no?

It's true that Holly has had to deal with multiple injuries during her tenure. However, last year she had the following ranked players on the team. (as per hoopgurlz)
#1,3,5,6 and 12 (Thats MR,DD,BG,JN and TC) along with a number of players ranked in the 20's and 30's
You can't get much more talented than that, yet how did we do in the regular season ?
I truly wish that Holly finds the switch that can get the LV's back to the final four and beyond. I just haven't seen much evidence to make that case.

 

[Amb3096]

Holly has gotten injury ridden teams to the game right before the FF for how many years now....I think she can sell that and the fact that a recruit can be the one to get us over that hump and restore UT's return as a national powerhouse. She's not as bad of a coach people try to make her out to be. Did Dawn or Muffet or Walz make it to the EE game last year or no?

The difference is that Tennessee is perceived to be on a downward spiral since Holly took over, and Jeff and Dawn took programs that were historically conference cellar dwellers and made the teams relevant again with some wins and filling the arenas. Maybe it's not fair to Holly, but that's the truth. I also thinks it's fair to say that she's not on the coaching level of Geno, Muffett, Jeff, Dawn, Brenda, Kim and a whole slew of coaches. She had everything handed to her: top recruits, facilities, fanbase, you name it. She should be doing much better given the headstart she had. And frankly, she should have proven that by rising to the occasion to get to the FF when the draw opened up, and not choke games away to Syracuse and Louisville.

As for Muffett, her record speaks for itself, even if she did have a bad tournament last year. She's positioned ND as a frontrunner for the top talent out there, and she's getting players to sign that continue to make her teams strong.

I disagree. Regardless of what you think of Holly as a coach, Tennessee can offer elite facilities and a program that consistently hosts one of the nation's largest crowds, night in and night out (we've been in the top two every year under Holly). Also nearly every Lady Vols game is televised in some way or another, with many games played on national networks.

Knoxville also hosts the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame, which I would think would offer a player a unique opportunity to engage with history and meet basketball legends over her four years as a Lady Vol.

First paragraph: I don't agree that large crowds and nice facilities will do the trick...not when other schools can offer the same thing along with a more respected coach.

Second paragraph: Very few players IMO will care about that. Probably less than the ones who care about ESPN up north...

 

[Chris89128]

Here we go again, another tangent in the recruiting thread

 

[volnationnj]

I disagree. Regardless of what you think of Holly as a coach, Tennessee can offer elite facilities and a program that consistently hosts one of the nation's largest crowds, night in and night out (we've been in the top two every year under Holly). Also nearly every Lady Vols game is televised in some way or another, with many games played on national networks.

Knoxville also hosts the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame, which I would think would offer a player a unique opportunity to engage with history and meet basketball legends over her four years as a Lady Vol.

While I agree that Tennessee can offer first rate facilities, crowds, tv exposure, etc. as you mentioned, I think the primary reason these girls choose a particular college is the coach and what that coach can do for their game. Certainly there are other factors (proximity,particular majors, prestige) but they are given basketball scholarships and for the top ranked players I have to go with the coach and the basketball program as the main factor in their decision.

 

[xanamanax]

ND lost to Stanford by 6 who beat us by 14 in the regular season
SC lost to Syracuse by 8 who blew us out by 22
Louisville lost to Depaul by 1 (I will give you that) but Holly had a far easier road (it was laid out for her to play in the title game against UConn and she failed to do it. Waltz hasn't struck out with recruits either and has done far more with far less than Holly has had, stop being a Homer and call a Spade a Spade. We will see if she can get it done this year. But Injuries/suspensions happen ask Bill Beliechick (spell check) you still have to coach players up. His team is 2-0 without their franchise QB and he took a team to the playoffs when his franchise QB was out for the season and his team never lost a beat. He understands how to coach them up/adapt to his teams strengths. Enough of the excuses for Holly. She has to get it done, point blank!

When Brady got hurt and missed the rest of the season, the Pats didn't make the playoffs.

 

[xanamanax]

I totally agree! I hope she can turn things around (an hopefully with the addition of Reeves to the staff who has seemed to energize recruits and their parents she might get her chance.) She has made it to 3 elite 8's and each time her coaching abilities showed (people want to blame injuries) but you can coach up a scheme to get your team through a game. Syracuse was a prime example, they killed us from the outside and we never truly had a game plan/made adjustments which seem to be her biggest flaw. I am optimistic that she might get a better class this recruiting season and hopefully she can find a way to put her in game pride aside and let the players play and not handcuff them.

You want to use the Syracuse game. I can just as easily point to the Ohio State game as an example of Holly coming up with a great game plan and winning a game a lot of people here probably didn't think we'd win.

Holly doesn't yet have the resume that the top coaches have but they've also been HCs a lot longer. Recruits can see that we have had some success here with her, although it's not as much as we fans would like. She's knocking on the door. We'll see if she can break it down.

 

[volnationnj]

When Brady got hurt and missed the rest of the season, the Pats didn't make the playoffs.

That's true but they were 11-5 and still playing at a high level.

 

[mlindsay]

When Brady got hurt and missed the rest of the season, the Pats didn't make the playoffs.

You're right that's the year the Chargers got in because you had to take a team from that lousy division at 8-8 and they lost out to Miami and Baltimore because they (Baltimore and Miami) had better conference records. It still doesn't take away the fact that he was able to coach a team that no one gave a chance and thought to be a Top 10 pick a winning record. He didn't make excuses he just played with what he had. I wish Holly would do the same, show us she has things under control and make the type of adjustments that will still make us successful. Because I already hear the excuses for this season;

1. Te'a is out, Carter retired and we could've still had Jasmine Jones for at least 1 more season if she hadn't had concussion issues.

2. We only have 9 players and it's hard to compete when other teams have 10 to 12 players they can use

3. Our schedule is tougher this year than it was last year

yada, yada, yada! No excuses, get it done!

 

[mlindsay]

You want to use the Syracuse game. I can just as easily point to the Ohio State game as an example of Holly coming up with a great game plan and winning a game a lot of people here probably didn't think we'd win.

Holly doesn't yet have the resume that the top coaches have but they've also been HCs a lot longer. Recruits can see that we have had some success here with her, although it's not as much as we fans would like. She's knocking on the door. We'll see if she can break it down.

She spent 30 years with arguably the best coach (imo she was the best coach) in Women's Basketball history. None of the other coaches had that Luxury and none of them were handed Top 10 programs with Top 10 talent/recruiting classes like Holly, they all had to build what they have, so again what is the excuse? The only coach who inherited a great program is Joanne P. McCallie and she is the worst.

 

[gule]

Holly's legacy? 3 final eight & a sweet 16 in 4 years?


purty damn good to me. could be better but *****ing won't help anything.

 

[Chris89128]

Seriously please start another thread. This has nothing to do with current recruiting. It's all about comparing Warlick to other coaches and criticizing her for the millionth time.

 

[SCGamecock]

Sure other teams have some great players, but what other team is as loaded as South Carolina?

Right now? Probably Baylor, Ohio State and Louisville just to name a few. I think Norte Dame matches up with us as far as overall talent too.

 

[mlindsay]

Right now? Probably Baylor, Ohio State and Louisville just to name a few. I think Norte Dame matches up with us as far as overall talent too.

What I want to see from y'all (SC) is if Coates goes down (not injury but is in foul trouble/foul out) how do you guys respond. I don't think y'all have a legitimate back-up to her since Jatarie left. The easiest would be moving Wilson to the block and Davis at the High Post but would Davis be willing to play the 4 spot. It will be interesting to see.

 

[cwbytruckers]

why all this love for dawn staley?

imho, she's the most overated coach since joanne McCallie.

Staley for some reason always looks constipated. And I don't mean that as a joke. Either constipated or just always pissed off.