Just what is a five star player?

[Coach Jumper]

There is so much talk, exposure and emphasis on "star" athletes, but just how is this determined?... With large AAU orgs there are often tier teams. Gold, Silver, Purple, Blue and White was the standard color-tier for my club. In college they are called stars, 5-star, 4*, 3*,2, 1, and even zero-stars. OK, let’s go with this… The funny thing is a year later a purple would make the jump to gold and a gold might fall to a silver. We see this in collegiate recruiting sites and networks. A once 5* is a year later a 4* and vice versa. Or a no-star jumps straight from nowhere to a 5* slot... How does this happen?

A five star athlete is simply an athlete that possess all six of the needed elements that coaches are looking for. 1- Natural athleticism 2- Good Coachability 3- Great skills 4- Good support system 5- Work ethic 6- An ability to learn…A player with three or four attributes, but severely lacking in two of them might be a 3 star.

Take two athletes:

#1…Has natural athleticism, great skills, a good family support system and is very smart,,, But her work ethic sucks and she back-talks her coaches.

#2...Is a marvelous physical specimen with a good mind, ambition and is honorable towards her coaches,, But limited training and skillset because she was never able to pay 495.00 a summer for AAU coaching and tried to work on her game in gyms around town

Give me the second one every time!

This is why I say “stars are for stargazers”… You can tell me all day long that _____ is a five star playeror ____ is a 3, etc... But if she won't get down the floor, fights with her coaches, Makes frustration turnovers, has a family that puts her on a pedestal, won’t work on her game in her off-time, and/or can’t remember to be at the proper place for running a set-play… She's a zero

By far, the two who have impressed me most in my time in Knoxville are the girl from Holston and the red-haired girl from Oak Ridge… Why, because they had honor. They both gave everything they had at all times, no matter what the circumstance and when they were away from me they represented me with that same work-ethic and ambition. Were they the best?.. No… A different girl was a passing machine, who could duplicate my drills perfectly… Why would I work with the two over the one?.. The two girls show me respect, love and admiration no matter who is watching them or where they are. They will walk across the floor and give me a hug or a high-five and they play for their MS/HS coaches with the same honor and gusto that they had when they were in front of me. The other girl wouldn't even acknowledge me when I walk into her gym. … Honor, is to me, without peer, in qualities I look for. If they have honor, the rest can be acquired. . . The two honor me in every way... Give me a girl with these attributes, and I will beat the socks off of a primadonna athlete...I can teach skills and I can train someone to be better, faster, stronger.

Ron White says it best, “You can’t fix stupid." Speaking of, the one credit I will give Geno is, his girls do give 100% every moment and in any environment. The reason I am down on Geno is, as great a coach as he without question "is", I don't see honor in him. I refuse to give someone in whom I question their integrity, my support and open admiration.

Finally, What I will not teach, per the words of the greatest women’s basketball coach EVER, is, “Passion.” Passion is the fuel that makes the athlete "go"... I won't even try to teach you to love my game...If I need to get somewhere, give me a Kia with a full tank, over a Maserati that’s empty… You make look real pretty in your $200,000 sports car, but I will pass you because I have fuel and you don't.

 

[Benionsopinion]

Well said,Coach J.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Well said,Coach J.

Thank you, Benion. ;o)

 

[Top Gun]

Superstars come along every few years. They carry teams to national titles. Chamique, Candace, Diana, Maya, Breanna. We aren"t in the conversation to get one of these type players anymore.

 

[supersmo18]

Lol arrogance defined

 

[Coach Jumper]

Superstars come along every few years. They carry teams to national titles. Chamique, Candace, Diana, Maya, Breanna. We aren"t in the conversation to get one of these type players anymore.

We have one right now. Diamond DeShields is picked to be a #1 overall pick in the next draft. Talent follows talent!. . . Handle her correctly and others will absolutely follow. . . We have two more that I can immediately see physical limitless potential with. Cooper and Meme Jackson. We have what was one of the top posts in the country. And we just got two defensively minded forwards. Add in an outstanding group of players and what top recruit wouldn't want to play with that kind of talent?

What we don't have (yet) is the coach who can bring the game out of these incredible prospects. Talent follows talent. We have the draw. Now it is up to the UT athletic department and coaching staff to find the missing element.

Find that and we rock a natty next year... Ignore it and start filling out resume's.

 

[supersmo18]

Lol arrogance defined

 

[Coach Jumper]

Lol arrogance defined

Ordinarily I would have simply replied, "Don't be so hard on yourself", or, "Yes, with your picture next to the definition"...

But I won't. . . I will simply say: "Performance, will shut you up!"

 

[Top Gun]

We have one right now. Diamond DeShields is picked to be a #1 overall pick in the next draft. Talent follows talent!. . . Handle her correctly and others will absolutely follow. . . We have two more that I can immediately see physical limitless potential with. Cooper and Meme Jackson. We have what was one of the top posts in the country. And we just got two defensively minded forwards. Add in an outstanding group of players and what top recruit wouldn't want to play with that kind of talent?

What we don't have (yet) is the coach who can bring the game out of these incredible prospects. Talent follows talent. We have the draw. Now it is up to the UT athletic department and coaching staff to find the missing element.

Find that and we rock a natty next year... Ignore it and start filling out resume's.

Don't agree with you on this one Jump. DD is very talented but is not worthy of superstar staus IMO. If she was, the other players around her would have responded and there wouldn't have been so many times where they looked pathetic. Replacing CHW is a no brainer of course.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Don't agree with you on this one Jump. DD is very talented but is not worthy of superstar staus IMO.

You didn't get to see the DD I got to see in Atlanta!.. Before her venture into North Carolina and her past season in UT ... She epitomized great there. A wizard with the ball and a scoring sensation... But she has to be with someone who doesn't worship her. In-fact, she has to be with someone she looks up to. She has to be with a coach, not a fan.

Re Holly... I feel she has finally taken her first step in growth as a HC,,, She is putting her face on it for the first time. This is NOW her staff, Not one left to her. So in this she has given me a reason to take another look at her. Now we'll know if a fly was in the ointment or if the chef dropped a flystrip in the stew.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Got to hit the hay... Long day.
will pick it back up in the AM.

Goodnight Johnboy, MaryEllen, JimBob, Supersmo18... VolNation

 

[chuck0303]

There is so much talk, exposure and emphasis on "star" athletes, but just how is this determined?... With large AAU orgs there are often tier teams. Gold, Silver, Purple, Blue and White was the standard color-tier for my club. In college they are called stars, 5-star, 4*, 3*,2, 1, and even zero-stars. OK, let’s go with this… The funny thing is a year later a purple would make the jump to gold and a gold might fall to a silver. We see this in collegiate recruiting sites and networks. A once 5* is a year later a 4* and vice versa. Or a no-star jumps straight from nowhere to a 5* slot... How does this happen?

A five star athlete is simply an athlete that possess all six of the needed elements that coaches are looking for. 1- Natural athleticism 2- Good Coachability 3- Great skills 4- Good support system 5- Work ethic 6- An ability to learn…A player with three or four attributes, but severely lacking in two of them might be a 3 star.

Take two athletes:

#1…Has natural athleticism, great skills, a good family support system and is very smart,,, But her work ethic sucks and she back-talks her coaches.

#2...Is a marvelous physical specimen with a good mind, ambition and is honorable towards her coaches,, But limited training and skillset because she was never able to pay 495.00 a summer for AAU coaching and tried to work on her game in gyms around town

Give me the second one every time!

This is why I say “stars are for stargazers”… You can tell me all day long that _____ is a five star player. But if she won't get down the floor, fights with her coaches, Makes frustration turnovers, has a family that puts her on a pedestal, won’t work on her game in her off-time, and/or can’t remember to be at the proper place for running a set-play… She is useless to me.

By far, the two who have impressed me most in my time in Knoxville are the girl from Holston and the red-haired girl from Oak Ridge… Why, because they had honor. They both gave everything they had at all times, no matter what the circumstance and when they were away from me they represented me with that same work-ethic and ambition. Were they the best?.. No… The girl from the KISL was a passing machine, who could duplicate my drills perfectly… Why would I work with the two over the one?.. The two girls show me respect, love and admiration no matter who is watching them or where they are. They will walk across the floor and give me a hug or a high-five and they play for their MS/HS coaches with the same honor and gusto that they had when they were in front of me. The one from the KISL won’t even acknowledge me when I walk into her gym. … Honor, is to me, without peer, in qualities I look for. If they have honor, the rest can be acquired. . . The two honor me in every way... Give me a girl with these attributes, and I will beat the socks off of a primadonna athlete...I can teach skills and I can train someone to be better, faster, stronger.

Ron White says it best, “You can’t fix stupid." Speaking of, the one credit I will give Geno is, his girls do give 100% every moment and in any environment. The reason I am down on Geno is, as great a coach as he without question "is", I don't see honor in him. I refuse to give someone in whom I question their integrity, my support and open admiration.

Finally, What I will not teach, per the words of the greatest women’s basketball coach EVER, is, “Passion.” Passion is the fuel that makes the athlete "go"... I won't even try to teach you to love my game...If I need to get somewhere, give me a Kia with a full tank, over a Maserati that’s empty… You make look real pretty in your $200,000 sports car, but I will pass you because I have fuel and you don't.

Correction: It's motivation, not passion, that pushes a person toward a goal. That motivation can stem from a great many things. Sometimes it can be a positive or a negative; more likely a positive, but not always.

As to Geno, I give him credit for being a great coach, teacher, motivator and demanding excellence. No way would I say that he's honorable but I would say he's usually, and more often than not, projects the image of a jerk. Personally, I can't stand the guy but I do give him credit for what he's accomplished.

 

[Chitownvol1129]

There is so much talk, exposure and emphasis on "star" athletes, but just how is this determined?... With large AAU orgs there are often tier teams. Gold, Silver, Purple, Blue and White was the standard color-tier for my club. In college they are called stars, 5-star, 4*, 3*,2, 1, and even zero-stars. OK, let’s go with this… The funny thing is a year later a purple would make the jump to gold and a gold might fall to a silver. We see this in collegiate recruiting sites and networks. A once 5* is a year later a 4* and vice versa. Or a no-star jumps straight from nowhere to a 5* slot... How does this happen?

A five star athlete is simply an athlete that possess all six of the needed elements that coaches are looking for. 1- Natural athleticism 2- Good Coachability 3- Great skills 4- Good support system 5- Work ethic 6- An ability to learn…A player with three or four attributes, but severely lacking in two of them might be a 3 star.

Take two athletes:

#1…Has natural athleticism, great skills, a good family support system and is very smart,,, But her work ethic sucks and she back-talks her coaches.

#2...Is a marvelous physical specimen with a good mind, ambition and is honorable towards her coaches,, But limited training and skillset because she was never able to pay 495.00 a summer for AAU coaching and tried to work on her game in gyms around town

Give me the second one every time!

This is why I say “stars are for stargazers”… You can tell me all day long that _____ is a five star player. But if she won't get down the floor, fights with her coaches, Makes frustration turnovers, has a family that puts her on a pedestal, won’t work on her game in her off-time, and/or can’t remember to be at the proper place for running a set-play… She is useless to me.

By far, the two who have impressed me most in my time in Knoxville are the girl from Holston and the red-haired girl from Oak Ridge… Why, because they had honor. They both gave everything they had at all times, no matter what the circumstance and when they were away from me they represented me with that same work-ethic and ambition. Were they the best?.. No… The girl from the KISL was a passing machine, who could duplicate my drills perfectly… Why would I work with the two over the one?.. The two girls show me respect, love and admiration no matter who is watching them or where they are. They will walk across the floor and give me a hug or a high-five and they play for their MS/HS coaches with the same honor and gusto that they had when they were in front of me. The one from the KISL won’t even acknowledge me when I walk into her gym. … Honor, is to me, without peer, in qualities I look for. If they have honor, the rest can be acquired. . . The two honor me in every way... Give me a girl with these attributes, and I will beat the socks off of a primadonna athlete...I can teach skills and I can train someone to be better, faster, stronger.

Ron White says it best, “You can’t fix stupid." Speaking of, the one credit I will give Geno is, his girls do give 100% every moment and in any environment. The reason I am down on Geno is, as great a coach as he without question "is", I don't see honor in him. I refuse to give someone in whom I question their integrity, my support and open admiration.

Finally, What I will not teach, per the words of the greatest women’s basketball coach EVER, is, “Passion.” Passion is the fuel that makes the athlete "go"... I won't even try to teach you to love my game...If I need to get somewhere, give me a Kia with a full tank, over a Maserati that’s empty… You make look real pretty in your $200,000 sports car, but I will pass you because I have fuel and you don't.

How does a recruiting site, know if a player is coachable, able to learn? Do they have some excess to training and development that would probably be considered illegal? I am going to assume, your favorite coach, or the one you consider the best is Summitt (with 2 t's) but Abby never loved Pat, nor did Pat love her, yet probably her greatest coaching ever, was lead through a player, who didn't see eye to eye with her ever, how do you explain that?

 

[Chitownvol1129]

Lol arrogance defined

those that can do- do, those that can't teach, and obviously critic. I guess an AAU coach is great, but is that really the coach, not the high school coach, not the parent, who is there everyday? Yeah , I guess all the passing skills, dribbling come untaught at the AAU level. I guess being handed talent is hard work. Funny, Holly has to recruit her's, then coach it, then it might play in USA tournaments, but really where is the coaching? Does the writer have the record for results Holly does? 3 elite 8s, a sweet 16? the number 1, and 2 recruits from one year? What is with the need to be alpha to girls, needing them to hug, and love you crap? I seriously doubt Pat ever thought, "damn the mekes better love me and run and hug me, and represent me, and not themselves, or their team.

Diana T in my opinion was the greatest college player ever, please, seriously, tell me she ever, once played for anyone but herself! I guarantee you she walked all over her AAU coaches, much as she does in the WNBA, I guess some sweet loving girls coached right could stop her, as long as they loved and needed to play for their Alpha coach.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Correction: It's motivation, not passion, that pushes a person toward a goal. That motivation can stem from a great many things. Sometimes it can be a positive or a negative; more likely a positive, but not always.

As to Geno, I give him credit for being a great coach, teacher, motivator and demanding excellence. No way would I say that he's honorable but I would say he's usually, and more often than not, projects the image of a jerk. Personally, I can't stand the guy but I do give him credit for what he's accomplished.

Motivation is often not innate and has to be gotten from someone else,, while passion is only from within...Love for something makes me "want" to be near it, understand it and hopefully give me the patience to stay with it when it isn't pretty or fun. . . My landlord is 89, soon to be 90. I am motivated to pay him rent because if I don't I won't have a place to live. ... Passion is why I know that he fought in WW2, owned a butcher store on K-pike for nearly 20 years, Has a son and daughter in Mer'ville... Motivation makes me pay him rent, passion lets me take him to 6 yard sales yesterday, even though I had that drive to PF waiting on me and knowing that Dad and Mom would have half a dozen "Son, will ya's".... As we drove home from yard-saling he beamed. He told me, "I feel better today than I have felt all week...But now, I'm tired." Passion is what gives me memories.

 

[Coach Jumper]

How does a recruiting site, know if a player is coachable, able to learn? Do they have some excess to training and development that would probably be considered illegal? I am going to assume, your favorite coach, or the one you consider the best is Summitt (with 2 t's) but Abby never loved Pat, nor did Pat love her, yet probably her greatest coaching ever, was lead through a player, who didn't see eye to eye with her ever, how do you explain that?

For a potential player, as a coach, from the moment I view them the very first time, I size them up in every way that seeing them "not in person" would allow me to. Does she give up if she isn't fed an open look? Does she pass up an open look to try to feed someone preferred? When she does do something incredible, does she celebrate alone or is she bombarded by teammates? When she does get beat, does it bring out the furrowed brow or the slitting of the eyes? . . . And there is no way I would take a player without meeting them.

When I do get to meet her, I then go into part two of the size-up...Do you look me eye to eye? Do you answer a text in mid-stream of a conversation? Do you come across as the author of your destiny? When you talk about my game, do you get excited about it? Are you respectful to Mom or Dad? Are you self-assured and confident or timid. And so so so so many different other aspects.

Players post highlights on Youtube and other sites. What they can't edit, though, are their teammates responses. By this alone, I can make most spot-on character reads. The brain is able to calculate eons of information in fractions of a second. Part of that is the ability to size someone up for different tasks and responsibilities.... Gandhi and Hitler both were undeniable leaders. And you have to have a leader for any endeavor. But I wouldn't want either of them to lead my team, Gandhi was meek and passive. Hitler was snake-charmingly aggressive... As a underling for each, I would have constantly tested Gandhi and I would have looked for a chance to put one between the eyes of the Groucho-wannabe.

Coachability is in the mental makeup of a player. The history of their quest that got them to where they are. The opinion of those around them. What they say and do. It has nothing to do with how they perform on the floor in skills and competitions.

 

[Coach Jumper]

those that can do- do, those that can't teach, and obviously critic. I guess an AAU coach is great, but is that really the coach, not the high school coach, not the parent, who is there everyday? Yeah , I guess all the passing skills, dribbling come untaught at the AAU level. I guess being handed talent is hard work. Funny, Holly has to recruit her's, then coach it, then it might play in USA tournaments, but really where is the coaching? Does the writer have the record for results Holly does? 3 elite 8s, a sweet 16? the number 1, and 2 recruits from one year? What is with the need to be alpha to girls, needing them to hug, and love you crap? I seriously doubt Pat ever thought, "damn the mekes better love me and run and hug me, and represent me, and not themselves, or their team.

Diana T in my opinion was the greatest college player ever, please, seriously, tell me she ever, once played for anyone but herself! I guarantee you she walked all over her AAU coaches, much as she does in the WNBA, I guess some sweet loving girls coached right could stop her, as long as they loved and needed to play for their Alpha coach.

It isn't about hugs, chi, its about respect. Some girls want to run over and make you feel a warm and goosey. (Even an Alpha wants and needs love) Some will only shyly lift their hand just enough for you to see them do it, but no one else. I'll take both... But to go to games to show your player you still care about her and for her to see you walk in and then boldly look down or away, tells me everything I did for her was not appreciated. Pat was hugged all the time. As is Geno. It is a sign of appreciation.

Love fuels me to go to the gym 2-3-4-5-6-7 days a week and work on my or their game. Love is why the 12u team I posted played 72 games over one summer. 18 different tournaments. Love is what makes me go to Oak Ridge and hit the court for an hour and a half 2-3 times a week whether coaching someone or alone. Love is what keeps me in this game for 35 years. Love is what makes me want to have a heart attack on a hardwood court in my death. Alpha's aren't necessarily loners, chi. We need love too.

And if you think that I am one of those coaches who takes other's teachings and win's because of that, you have not been following my posts.

The Holston's girl's Dad was at every session. Wearing tennis shoes and getting his own workout too. He interjected and I listened. You can't win by hoping everyone else did your job. All the talent in the world with all the best coaching in the world before you got them, does not insure the same success... We have a team down the road that epitomizes those words... Remember the "Dream Team II's under-achieving Olympic?.. A team of the most trained, gifted, dedicated and rated athletes STILL has to be coached physically, psychologically, emotionally and spiritually or they can be beaten by one that IS.

Thanks for the questions, chi.

 

[Volfan2012]

To me a five star player is the ultimate athlete and able to guard her position with great efficiency. She must also have basketball skills meaning she is an effective 45 percent shooter from the field and 75 percent from the line.She has strength and jumping ability. If she doesn't have these skills then she is not a five star.
Four star great athlete who can guard and shoots around 40 percent from the field and 70 percent from the line. Has the ability to improve to a five star if she works on her game.
Three star great athlete with limited basketball skills, but still with the ability to upgrade their game and move into another category.
Two star limited athlete who still may be able to have a skill that make her valuable to a team like shot blocking or rebounding. She does one thing really well, but is limited in other areas of the game and doesn't have the athletic ability to get much better.

 

[Coach Jumper]

To me a five star player is the ultimate athlete and able to guard her position with great efficiency. She must also have basketball skills meaning she is an effective 45 percent shooter from the field and 75 percent from the line.She has strength and jumping ability. If she doesn't have these skills then she is not a five star.
Four star great athlete who can guard and shoots around 40 percent from the field and 70 percent from the line. Has the ability to improve to a five star if she works on her game.
Three star great athlete with limited basketball skills, but still with the ability to upgrade their game and move into another category.
Two star limited athlete who still may be able to have a skill that make her valuable to a team like shot blocking or rebounding. She does one thing really well, but is limited in other areas of the game and doesn't have the athletic ability to get much better.

Per your definition,,, would you take that same 5-star if she Answered a cell-call in front of you, mid-conversation and said to the other end, "Mom, shut up,,, I am talking to a friend right now. Bug me later" click?

It's more than just skills and abilities VF... This is where coaches make their biggest mistakes. They take an athlete just to keep someone else from getting them. And then don't know how to work with them.

That's why there are coaching teams. I am a skills and drills expert. But it's hard for me tell you if a designed play was "per player" run perfectly because even though I can design movement on a play, I'm not good at seeing if it is followed correctly.

As Clint Eastwood, Dirty Harry, once said, "A man's got to know his limitations"... I know mine.

 

[supersmo18]

those that can do- do, those that can't teach, and obviously critic. I guess an AAU coach is great, but is that really the coach, not the high school coach, not the parent, who is there everyday? Yeah , I guess all the passing skills, dribbling come untaught at the AAU level. I guess being handed talent is hard work. Funny, Holly has to recruit her's, then coach it, then it might play in USA tournaments, but really where is the coaching? Does the writer have the record for results Holly does? 3 elite 8s, a sweet 16? the number 1, and 2 recruits from one year? What is with the need to be alpha to girls, needing them to hug, and love you crap? I seriously doubt Pat ever thought, "damn the mekes better love me and run and hug me, and represent me, and not themselves, or their team.

Diana T in my opinion was the greatest college player ever, please, seriously, tell me she ever, once played for anyone but herself! I guarantee you she walked all over her AAU coaches, much as she does in the WNBA, I guess some sweet loving girls coached right could stop her, as long as they loved and needed to play for their Alpha coach.

I was talking about OP.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I was talking about OP.

Excuse my novice-ness in texting, but OP is Original Poster, right?

supe, I don't mind tough criticisms and questions. I try to answer each of them. But posting just to call me arrogant, lets me know that you are not here to do anything but bully... I have no respect or time for this. . . My accessibility on this site is to give those who never coached an insight from one who has. And to show those who doubt that I am knowledgeable in that realm. . . NOT to show I can fight. I save that for the court.

Enjoy your Sunday.

 

[Special Ed]

Why would you want to jump a coach?

 

[Coach Jumper]

Why would you want to jump a coach?

Maybe the other avatar was threatening. I will change it and let the Big Red Machine be the intimidater.
;o)

 

[TGVol]

Ideally everyone should want to have as many 5* players as they can get.
Success of Alabama football, and Kentucky mens basketball makes that perfectly clear.

 

[UCMiami]

I think some of the 'evaluation' issue in terms of 5 star players is the huge grad inflation that has occurred with HoopGurlz specifically but generally across the board in HS evaluation:
In 2011 the Top 100 list had 11 five star recruits in 2016 it has 52 - in five years they have quintupled the number of 5 star athletes and while talent is expanding it certainly isn't expanding at that rate.

In 2011 the grade number of 98 was assigned to 2 players, in 2016 it is assigned to 21 - 10x the number.

In 2011 the grade number of 95 was assigned to the #12 player and lower and the grade of 94 was applied to the 24th ranked player and lower - in 2016 grade 95 first appears at rank #53, and grade 94 appears at rank #73.

That is some serious inflation over the last five years.

In addition the designation of 'Mcdonald's AA is a 24 player designation primarily assigned to a single class, and people have a tendency to equate it to future college AA designations where first team second team and third team AA designation applies to only 15 players that are usually at most only 50% from any single one of four college classes - so a HS AA is 24 players from one class being equated to 7 or 8 players from a single class in college - that means the HS AA is about 3 times more generous than the college one.

All of this tends to lead college fans to be over expectant of the recruits coming into their schools, and often more disappointed with their resultant careers.

Coach - I do think there is one skill that is very important that often gets overlooked in recruiting and that is shooting (not scoring) - great athletes that cannot make jump shots often never learn, and those who cannot make layups are not likely to learn. You can have all the coach ability and desire and passion and motivation but if you do not have the hand eye coordination to shoot or the spacial perception to understand banks and angles, you will never be a good basketball player. You can teach techniques, but not those innate abilities.