Turnover Stats

#1

clkou

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#1
I think it's fine to preach good defense but it's high time they start preaching "valuing possessions". The turnover problem has plagued us every season since the last national championship. It's just out of control and they aren't even "good" turnovers where they are executing an acceptable risk for the reward of an easy bucket.

If it were me, I'd play the last 6 players on this list who all have double digit minutes until committing a turnover for a full game and see what happens. If they all played equal minutes (33.33 for the game), they'd average 13 turnovers for the game based on those stats - still not great, but acceptable and a helluva lot better than the 18 we are averaging now.

We'd have our two premiere post players (Graves and Russell), our star guard (DeShields), our best and pretty much ONLY 3 point shooter (Dunbar), our best defender (Carter), and an experienced player who can give those players a rest if needed (Reynolds). I really wanted to stick with Cooper but she's the second worst turnover offender and doesn't look comfortable out there - not sure if she, her lack of experience, or coaching is to blame, but it is what it is ... If I had to go deeper than 6, I'd probably go with Meme (7th best on the turnover list) or Cooper because they are Freshman and deserve a chance to prove themselves.

Stop emptying the bench and let's allow some players (those who take care of the ball) to get into a rhythm.

Average Minutes until 1 Turnover (the higher the better) ---> Player
4.50 ---> Moore, Nia
6.42 ---> Cooper, Te'a
6.75 ---> Middleton, Alexa
8.78 ---> Jones, Jasmine
9.50 ---> Jackson, Meme
10.80 ---> DeShields, Diamond
11.10 ---> Reynolds, Jordan
14.44 ---> Carter, Andraya
16.71 ---> Graves, Bashaara
20.67 ---> Dunbar, Kortney
32.40 ---> Russell, Mercedes
 
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#2
#2
I think it's fine to preach good defense but it's high time they start preaching "valuing possessions". The turnover problem has plagued us every season since the last national championship. It's just out of control and they aren't even "good" turnovers where they are executing an acceptable risk for the reward of an easy bucket.

If it were me, I'd play the last 6 players on this list who all have double digit minutes until committing a turnover for a full game and see what happens. If they all played equal minutes (33.33 for the game), they'd average 13 turnovers for the game based on those stats - still not great, but acceptable and a helluva lot better than the 18 we are averaging now.


We'd have our two premiere post players (Graves and Russell), our star guard (DeShields), our best and pretty much ONLY 3 point shooter (Dunbar), our best defender (Carter), and an experienced player who can give those players a rest if needed (Reynolds). I really wanted to stick with Cooper but she's the second worst turnover offender and doesn't look comfortable out there - not sure if she, her lack of experience, or coaching is to blame, but it is what it is ... If I had to go deeper than 6, I'd probably go with Meme (7th best on the turnover list) or Cooper because they are Freshman and deserve a chance to prove themselves.

Stop emptying the bench and let's allow some players (those who take care of the ball) to get into a rhythm.

Average Minutes until 1 Turnover (the higher the better) ---> Player
4.50 ---> Moore, Nia
6.42 ---> Cooper, Te'a
6.75 ---> Middleton, Alexa
8.78 ---> Jones, Jasmine
9.50 ---> Jackson, Meme
10.80 ---> DeShields, Diamond
11.10 ---> Reynolds, Jordan
14.44 ---> Carter, Andraya
16.71 ---> Graves, Bashaara
20.67 ---> Dunbar, Kortney
32.40 ---> Russell, Mercedes

Turnovers are a problem, but I sure am glad you aren't the coach if you sit DeShields and Jones on the bench.
 
#3
#3
I think it's fine to preach good defense but it's high time they start preaching "valuing possessions". The turnover problem has plagued us every season since the last national championship. It's just out of control and they aren't even "good" turnovers where they are executing an acceptable risk for the reward of an easy bucket.

If it were me, I'd play the last 6 players on this list who all have double digit minutes until committing a turnover for a full game and see what happens. If they all played equal minutes (33.33 for the game), they'd average 13 turnovers for the game based on those stats - still not great, but acceptable and a helluva lot better than the 18 we are averaging now.

We'd have our two premiere post players (Graves and Russell), our star guard (DeShields), our best and pretty much ONLY 3 point shooter (Dunbar), our best defender (Carter), and an experienced player who can give those players a rest if needed (Reynolds). I really wanted to stick with Cooper but she's the second worst turnover offender and doesn't look comfortable out there - not sure if she, her lack of experience, or coaching is to blame, but it is what it is ... If I had to go deeper than 6, I'd probably go with Meme (7th best on the turnover list) or Cooper because they are Freshman and deserve a chance to prove themselves.

Stop emptying the bench and let's allow some players (those who take care of the ball) to get into a rhythm.

Average Minutes until 1 Turnover (the higher the better) ---> Player
4.50 ---> Moore, Nia
6.42 ---> Cooper, Te'a
6.75 ---> Middleton, Alexa
8.78 ---> Jones, Jasmine
9.50 ---> Jackson, Meme
10.80 ---> DeShields, Diamond
11.10 ---> Reynolds, Jordan
14.44 ---> Carter, Andraya
16.71 ---> Graves, Bashaara
20.67 ---> Dunbar, Kortney
32.40 ---> Russell, Mercedes

Thoughtful post. I have no real serious argument. But I'll point out that this lineup that values possessions includes Carter and Reynolds - last seasons starters at guards and I just don't think those two at guard will get the team any farther than the team went last year. I'm also unsure Dunbar has enough minutes for 20.67 to be representative of what would happen were she to play 30+ minutes a game.

But in general, yeah, the turnovers are a HUGE problem IMO. The LV's are losing 6-8 points a game and giving away 6-8 points a game because of them. That's a big net gain if they can fix the problem.
 
#4
#4
Turnovers aren't an issue with a fast paced, high scoring offense. Problem is, just like last year, we can't score the ball. If we can't score with more efficiency, the turnover number has to come down.
 
#5
#5
Cooper had the same problem in high school where she'd play to fast and quick shoot the ball. Holly has to get her under control though and preach to her driving the basketball is not how you beat a zone. She has a tendency to make a mistake on offense and come down on defense and foul playing over aggressively.
 
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#6
#6
Turnovers are a problem, but I sure am glad you aren't the coach if you sit DeShields and Jones on the bench.

I guess you didn't read my post carefully. I specifically said I would play DeShields and I have her highlighted in blue with the other 5 I would play. But, I make no apologies about sitting Jones. She adds little to the offense except lots of turnovers. Her defense, while above average, does not make up for her deficiencies on offense.
 
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#7
#7
I guess you didn't read my post carefully. I specifically said I would play DeShields and I have her highlighted in blue with the other 5 I would play. But, I make no apologies about sitting Jones. She adds little to the offense except lots of turnovers. Her defense, while above average, does not make up for her deficiencies on offense.

Some have reading comprehension issues. Your post was spot on again.
 
#8
#8
Turnovers aren't an issue with a fast paced, high scoring offense. Problem is, just like last year, we can't score the ball. If we can't score with more efficiency, the turnover number has to come down.

If turnovers are coming on players loosing balls in the midst of a fast break you are right; but too many of the LVs turnovers are coming in half-court sets and are due to trying to pass the ball int players who are well covered, double covered and sometimes triple covered.

I don't understand the mind set -- hmm, should I make the easy pass to the wide open player in the wing? Nah, I can thread this camel through the eye of the needle to Mercedes. EPSN top ten here I come; oops, gotta get back on defense...
 
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#9
#9
The only two players with a positive ATO ratio are Deshields and Carter, 1.6 and 1.2 IIRC. That is a problem. All of our guards should have a positive ATO ratio. UConn is exactly the reverse of our stats. They only had two scrubs last year who had a negative ATO ratio and the other ten players were all positive. I am certain they make that a goal and priority for each player and nothing less would be tolerated. I am also sure they are taught proper technique and the whole offense is crafted to take care of the ball because a turnover is a helluva lot worse than missing a shot. It is the worst thing that can happen on an offensive possession and should be looked at that way.

Our turnovers have nothing to do with us trying to play up tempo. We very rarely get a fast break, certainly no more often than UConn. And almost all of our turnovers happen in the paint as part of our set offense.

We just don't value the ball and are hostile to the very concept of offensive efficiency. The fact that Holly even says the words "quick shoot" illustrates how little she understands what the goal is on offense. She needs to scrub that phrase from her vocabulary altogether. The point of your offense is to get a good shot. It doesn't matter a whit whether it comes early or late in a possession unless you are trying to hold a lead late in the game or have a particular strategic goal such as wanting to foul a particular defensive player out etc...

We make ourselves very easy to defend. Hell, we are so easy to defend that even Albany can do it. We throw the ball away because we browbeat our players into getting it to the posts regardless of whether they are open or not, while doing nothing to help the posts get open. And we let players like Jones continually try to do things they are not capable of doing. That is bad coaching when you put your players in a position to fail. Jasmine might be able to help us in the low post some since she can out leap everyone. But she is a huge liability driving the paint or trying to pass the ball. She has no handle or court awareness. Who looks at our roster and thinks, well I could play DeShields, Nared, Cooper, Reynolds, Carter etc... at the 2 or 3 but I think I will go with the girl who can't dribble?

Either Holly is fine with all of this or she doesn't know how to fix it. We have had the same results long enough that there is really no other explanation.
 
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#10
#10
I think turnovers and poor shooting are the main two reasons why were only winning by a short margin...still winning nevertheless. Like a poster mentioned earlier, if we can cut down on the turnovers that alone should give us 6-8 points more and take away some of the points off turnovers for the other team. I'm attributing this to chemistry issues as of now, I'm hoping we can work them out going forward in the season cause once that's fixed this team will be dangerous. I'm anxious for the Texas game, I just have a strong feeling they will come out on a mission. Only time will tell though, I'm just trying to be optimistic lol
 
#11
#11
Holly is a nice woman.....Get that out of the way.

By insisting they get the ball inside has put the guards at a disadvantage....They have become tentative and unsure of themselves....I cringe when she uses the phrase don't quick shoot the ball...Open guards freeze and don't shoot and try and force it inside, which turns into a turnover at least 30% of the time....Lost scoring opportunities.
 
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#12
#12
We're a poorly coached team, people, and have been for years. We've had the same /fundamental/ problems for years. Why, if we are playing a lot of people, are we not trying to run more?
 
#13
#13
I think it's fine to preach good defense but it's high time they start preaching "valuing possessions". The turnover problem has plagued us every season since the last national championship. It's just out of control and they aren't even "good" turnovers where they are executing an acceptable risk for the Dunbar, Kortney [/color]

Good post. The coaches need to preach 1 point per possession. To get there, players only take shots they can make 50% of the time (30% beyond the arc). And stop doing stupid stuff.
 
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#14
#14
Holly has to get the turnover issue fixed asap! Yeah we may get 30 wins and win the SEC but not win the big games when it counts.
 
#15
#15
Good post. The coaches need to preach 1 point per possession. To get there, players only take shots they can make 50% of the time (30% beyond the arc). And stop doing stupid stuff.

I have read all of the posts on this site, and what it really gets down to is a bad offensive plan and playing an antiquated offense, that worked in years gone by when we had all the good or one great post player. However, what do we expect from Holly, she is playing the same offense she learned from Pat. Other top coaches play to the talent of their players. The question becomes is, does Holly know what that means? She has created an offense which is easy to defend, however, her head is so hard that either she can't or will not change. Our players are either timid, unsure or desperation shooters from the outside. How many times have we seen Graves open from 10 feet out but choose to throw the ball inside. This has been ingrained in their minds from practice to practice. We have conditioned their minds that you MUST throw the ball inside. They seem to obey real well.
 
#16
#16
or 4 games in 9 days, with three to four players coming back from injury, all starting to practice, I meant play games together. :)
 
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