Are The Lady Vols An Elite Team Or Not

#1

teacherdean

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#1
we can argue this point until the, (excuse me) until the cows come home and you will have varied opinions. We can argue if Holly is a great coach or not, on that matter the jury is still out. The facts are that we are not UCONN and that is a hurdle we have to jump. Now you can be an elite team without being UCONN, however, that should be every WBB team's goal, to beat the best.

Wheather we like or hate Gino, the man can coach, read talent, and recruit. He is a master at making in game and half time changes that are an advantage to his team and a disadvantage to the opposition. There are a few teams with coaches close to him in style and ability (ND, Baylor, Maryland and USC). I do not believe that Holly is one of those individuals, (Only an opinion and options are like aholes)however, she can learn and get better. I believe that she cares more about the Lady Vols than life itself, however, that does not mean she cannot improve as a coach. In fact I really want her to.

Good coaches are difference makers and are rarely out coached. We have to be honest with ourselves and ask, is Holly a difference maker? Yes we had a great record and we have to give Holly her dues, but being a realist, are we honestly a top 3 or 4 team? The least criteria we should have for an elite team is a top 4 team. Now if we want to stretch out what makes up an elite team, maybe we create two categories, elite and super elite, or maybe three with UCONN designated as extra super elite. If that is the case an elite team will be teams that make it to the elite 8 and final 4 teams would be described as super elite.

Regardless, every team's goal should at rock bottom be to reach the final four. As I stated previously, be honest and ask yourself, do we have a coach who is a difference maker, do we have the offensive and defensive schemes to make it to the final four, do we have the talent to beat anyone in the country, can we develop talent, and are our coaching staff good at reading talent, especially talent that enhances a team? Make this analysis without considering if you love or hate the coach. View the team from the big picture point of view.
 
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#2
#2
Now if we want to stretch out what makes up an elite team, maybe we create two categories, elite and super elite, or maybe three with UCONN designated as extra super elite. If that is the case an elite team will be teams that make it to the elite 8 and final 4 teams would be described as super elite.

Based on your criteria, they were elite this year and if not for injuries would have probably been super elite. They will probably be super elite next year
 
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#3
#3
Tennessee is to womens basketball what Notre Dame is to football anymore. No more than a living breathing history book.
 
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#5
#5
I think we would have advanced more in the tourney this season had Harrison not been injured. So, we are an Elite 8 team.
 
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#6
#6
Based on your criteria, they were elite this year and if not for injuries would have probably been super elite. They will probably be super elite next year

I agree with all hands on deck I believe we would have had a better chance to make the final four. With what we played with, we were great. I do not think some people know what it takes to be elite. Injuries can easily take you from the elite class to the okay class. We had 3 starters, and possibly 4, on the injury list but yet, we made it to the elite 8. At this point no one should really be dogging Holly. Can she improve, of course she can. However, if all hands, or most, are on deck there will not be an excuse. If the ladies play well and are coached well, next year should be outstanding.
 
#7
#7
Yes,TD,Lady Vols are still elite,though in a down period. We'll see how things progress over the next years. Notre Dame,which is also elite went nine years without advancing past the sweet sixteen after their 2001 championship. After three national championships in a row,Ucon lost in the sweet sixteen and twice in the elite eight over the next three years. Both these teams have responded by many final four appearances, the last eight in a row for Ucon and the last four in a row for Notre Dame. All elite sports teams endure down periods,such as the Yankees in baseball,the Celtics in pro basketball,the Packers in pro football,and Notre Dame,Tennessee,Texas,and Alabama in college football. Returning to prior glories is harder for some teams than for others,as we see in our football program which is now moving in the right direction. Our Lady Vols have the foundation and over the next few years we will see if they have the leadership. All opinions are just that,and the results are what will count. Go Lady Vols.
 
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#9
#9
Good grief, I'm sick of all you negative nellies.

Sounds like reality setting in more than anything. Pat Summitt was lady vol basketball until someone comes along to fill her shoes, which may never happen.
 
#10
#10
We were 10 minutes away from making the final four in which all of the No. 1 seeds made it. So, yes were are definitely an elite team.

Honestly, about Holly, she has an 86-20 record in three years against the toughest schedule in women's basketball EACH year. Most programs would love to have that from a coach. Her decision to low post Reynolds and Nared late in the Gonzaga game proves she knows something about basketball - more than anyone on these message boards. Even Rick Barnes' resume (the anointed savior of our men's program) doesn't come close to what Holly has accomplished in the last three years. Anyone thinking of getting rid of Holly belongs in a looney bin. JMHO
 
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#11
#11
The team on the floor next year WILL BE elite! We are loaded with players on the bench sitting out a year. That bench could have made elite 8 this year! As long as Holly doesn't F it up next year we will be playing in final 4 and possibly for a championship.
 
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#12
#12
If you are consistently too nervous and timid to play well in big games, can you be elite?
 
#13
#13
The simple answer is, Yes!!!! They are just not the powerhouse UConn and Notre Dame is.
 
#14
#14
Look at Stanford. They won NCs in 1990 & 1992. Were among the super elite teams in the 90s, making the FF in 90, 91, 92, 95, 96, & 97. They didn't make the FF again until 2008. From 2008-2015, they went to six of eight FFs.

No one will dispute that Stanford is an elite team, and Tara an elite coach. However, up until 2008, she went 11 years between Final Fours even with very good recruiting, including three time AA Nicole Powell. There were just other teams that were better than them, Tennessee included.

Has Holly accomplished more than Tara, no. However, she has been the HC for three full seasons. In that time, she has an 86-20 record, two SEC RS Championships, one SEC Tourney Championship, two Elite Eights, and one Sweet 16. She has done all of this without a single player being named an All American. She has improved in wins every season (27, 29, 30), improved in losses (8, 6, 6), all while playing one of the toughest schedules in the country.

Are we on the level of UConn & Notre Dame right now? No. Is any other team? No. It's easy to win when you have the Player of the Year on your team. We on three NC with Chamique, and two with Candace. Baylor won with Griner. UConn won with Bird, Taurasi, Moore, & Stewart. When UConn didn't have a POY, they didn't make the FF. Neither did Baylor. Neither have we.

The majority of posters on here only post to see their words in print, as if it gives their words validation. The minute Holly starts worrying about what message board posters, who probably haven't played or coached a single D1 game in their lives, say about her abilities should be the day she steps down. I don't see that day coming anytime soon.
 
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#16
#16
There is only one MOTHER OF WOMENS COLLEGE BASKETBALL, and she is gone:thud:.We got spoiled by coach Pat, every year you new you were going to the final 4 and those days are gone the talent is on the rise in Women Basketball and not knocking Holly but she just cant get the elite players like Pat in saying that the last few years coach Pat was here U-CONN had caught up to Tennessee as the top program in the country.
 
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#17
#17
There is only one MOTHER OF WOMENS COLLEGE BASKETBALL, and she is gone:thud:.We got spoiled by coach Pat, every year you new you were going to the final 4 and those days are gone the talent is on the rise in Women Basketball and not knocking Holly but she just cant get the elite players like Pat in saying that the last few years coach Pat was here U-CONN had caught up to Tennessee as the top program in the country.

If Diamond isn't elite, no one is.
 
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#18
#18
Two things played a part in not making the final four this season. Number one a lot of these players are inconsistent on offense. They have a game where they make 9 of 10 shots and then turn around and make 1 of 10 next game. The Maryland loss was all about shooting the basketball. Rebounding was even, turnovers were even, we made 21 field goals they made 22. We put up 15 more shots than they did. 15 more but still one field goal less. It wasn't about effort some games Reynolds, Carter, Massengale and Burdick can't throw it in the ocean other nights one or two of them can. Some nights all four can. We actually got the ball inside to Graves a few time she makes 3 of 10. So team that can shoot the basketball wins the game. Maryland 40 percent Tennessee 32 percent. We win easily making 45 percent, win a close game making 40 percent.
Most of these players were highly rated recruits but if you saw their high school stats you would see about the same things you are seeing now we have a lot of players that can't shoot the ball on a given night.
So were probably not an elite team because these teams have players that can make shots and score 9 out of 10 games they play. Most of our players are like every other game or 5 of 10. You have to score points to win basketball games defense want always win. This is something Holly will have to learn.
When she goes out on the recruiting trail she certainly needs athletes that have the ability to play good defense, but she needs players more so that are gifted offensively. That is what we don't have on the roster.
I think Diamond is gifted offensively and Mercedes made 59 percent of her shots as freshmen. I think Cooper can bring it every night. She was a 42 percent three point shooter this season and for her career was around 50 percent from the field. I think we can have an elite team next season because these players have a consistent game of being able to score night after night.
Massengale, Reynolds, Carter, Burdick, and Graves can't do that. To her credit Burdick did get more consistent as a senior.
So Holly talks defense like that is going to win every game. It will not because giving up 58 points, several were at the free throw line late, is great defense. We got 48 on offense that will not win. 62 point scored by South Carolina is good defense by us. We get 46 that want win a game.
To change the direction of Tennessee basketball Holly has to get players that can score with consistency. Next year will be the best team she's had here and potentially the best team Tennessee's had since 2007. This means there is no reason barring injury for next year's team not to be in the title game. I expect Tennessee to be an elite team next season should be pre-season number two or three.
Second reason injuries probably cost us the final four this year. Harrison and Jones are inconsistent players as well, but you have to feel they might have been able to score 8 to 10 points each which would have been enough to beat Maryland.
It would have been nice to get to the final four even if we are now spared the beat down that Maryland is about to receive.
People wonder how Geno wins so much he goes out and recruits offensive players and makes them good defensive players. Every title he has won he's had two or three consistent three point shooters and two dominating post type players.
Coach Summit had that when she won the three titles back in the nineties. She won two in a row in the 2000 decade because she had a consistent three point shooter in Bobick and two dominating post players inside. That is when you are an elite team. When you have players that can consistently score points for you every night. So no we were not an elite team this year.
 
#19
#19
Look at Stanford. They won NCs in 1990 & 1992. Were among the super elite teams in the 90s, making the FF in 90, 91, 92, 95, 96, & 97. They didn't make the FF again until 2008. From 2008-2015, they went to six of eight FFs.

No one will dispute that Stanford is an elite team, and Tara an elite coach. However, up until 2008, she went 11 years between Final Fours even with very good recruiting, including three time AA Nicole Powell. There were just other teams that were better than them, Tennessee included.

Has Holly accomplished more than Tara, no. However, she has been the HC for three full seasons. In that time, she has an 86-20 record, two SEC RS Championships, one SEC Tourney Championship, two Elite Eights, and one Sweet 16. She has done all of this without a single player being named an All American. She has improved in wins every season (27, 29, 30), improved in losses (8, 6, 6), all while playing one of the toughest schedules in the country.

Are we on the level of UConn & Notre Dame right now? No. Is any other team? No. It's easy to win when you have the Player of the Year on your team. We on three NC with Chamique, and two with Candace. Baylor won with Griner. UConn won with Bird, Taurasi, Moore, & Stewart. When UConn didn't have a POY, they didn't make the FF. Neither did Baylor. Neither have we.

The majority of posters on here only post to see their words in print, as if it gives their words validation. The minute Holly starts worrying about what message board posters, who probably haven't played or coached a single D1 game in their lives, say about her abilities should be the day she steps down. I don't see that day coming anytime soon.
Some very valid points. Hope we excel next year with the talent coming back. Time will tell. Injuries surely can decimate a team's ability to win. Optimistic about next year. Go Lady Vols & thanks for a great year!
 
#20
#20
Look at Stanford. They won NCs in 1990 & 1992. Were among the super elite teams in the 90s, making the FF in 90, 91, 92, 95, 96, & 97. They didn't make the FF again until 2008. From 2008-2015, they went to six of eight FFs.

No one will dispute that Stanford is an elite team, and Tara an elite coach. However, up until 2008, she went 11 years between Final Fours even with very good recruiting, including three time AA Nicole Powell. There were just other teams that were better than them, Tennessee included.

Has Holly accomplished more than Tara, no. However, she has been the HC for three full seasons. In that time, she has an 86-20 record, two SEC RS Championships, one SEC Tourney Championship, two Elite Eights, and one Sweet 16. She has done all of this without a single player being named an All American. She has improved in wins every season (27, 29, 30), improved in losses (8, 6, 6), all while playing one of the toughest schedules in the country.

Are we on the level of UConn & Notre Dame right now? No. Is any other team? No. It's easy to win when you have the Player of the Year on your team. We on three NC with Chamique, and two with Candace. Baylor won with Griner. UConn won with Bird, Taurasi, Moore, & Stewart. When UConn didn't have a POY, they didn't make the FF. Neither did Baylor. Neither have we.

The majority of posters on here only post to see their words in print, as if it gives their words validation. The minute Holly starts worrying about what message board posters, who probably haven't played or coached a single D1 game in their lives, say about her abilities should be the day she steps down. I don't see that day coming anytime soon.

Didn't Tamika win POY in 2000 ?
 
#21
#21
East
33 De'Janae Boykin UCONN
5 Taja Cole Louisville
25 Asia Durr Louisville
34 Brianna Fraser Maryland
11 Samantha Fuehring Louisville
15 Kiah Gillespie Maryland
23 Marina Mabrey Notre Dame
10 Beatrice Mompremier Baylor
3 Taylor Murray Kentucky
24 Arike Ogunbowale Notre Dame
32 Ali Patberg Notre Dame
35 Deja Strother Washington

West

31 Kristine Anigwe California
21 Kalani Brown Baylor
24 Napheesa Collier UCONN
2 Te'a Cooper Tennessee
3 Sophie Cunningham Missouri
22 Ashley Hearn UCLA
10 Lashann Higgs Texas
5 Jordan Hosey Texas
1 Kyra Lambert Duke
33 Katie Lou Samuelson UCONN
20 Destinee Walker UNC
15 Stephanie Watts UNC

Here is a look of the top players coming in next year. Tennessee only gets one, Te'a Cooper, Kentucky only gets one Taylor Murray, and Missouri only gets one Sophie Cunningham. That is a total of three for the SEC. The same as UCONN, Louisville, and Notre Dame. If we can't get three like the other top teams then Tennessee will not be an Elite Team
 
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#22
#22
East
33 De'Janae Boykin UCONN
5 Taja Cole Louisville
25 Asia Durr Louisville
34 Brianna Fraser Maryland
11 Samantha Fuehring Louisville
15 Kiah Gillespie Maryland
23 Marina Mabrey Notre Dame
10 Beatrice Mompremier Baylor
3 Taylor Murray Kentucky
24 Arike Ogunbowale Notre Dame
32 Ali Patberg Notre Dame
35 Deja Strother Washington

West

31 Kristine Anigwe California
21 Kalani Brown Baylor
24 Napheesa Collier UCONN
2 Te'a Cooper Tennessee
3 Sophie Cunningham Missouri
22 Ashley Hearn UCLA
10 Lashann Higgs Texas
5 Jordan Hosey Texas
1 Kyra Lambert Duke
33 Katie Lou Samuelson UCONN
20 Destinee Walker UNC
15 Stephanie Watts UNC

Here is a look of the top players coming in next year. Tennessee only gets one, Te'a Cooper, Kentucky only gets one Taylor Murray, and Missouri only gets one Sophie Cunningham. That is a total of three for the SEC. The same as UCONN, Louisville, and Notre Dame. If we can't get three like the other top teams then Tennessee will not be an Elite Team

Last year, Middleton & Nared were on the team. The year before, Russell, DeShields, & Reynolds were. It's cyclical.
 
#24
#24
We are already selling the team out. We do not have a clue what Tennessee will do. Before we become Debbie downer, let's give them a chance. We have the potential to put an outstanding team on the floor. I really think the girls are going to surprise a lot of naysayers. I really hope so.
 
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#25
#25
We are already selling the team out. We do not have a clue what Tennessee will do. Before we become Debbie downer, let's give them a chance. We have the potential to put an outstanding team on the floor. I really think the girls are going to surprise a lot of naysayers. I really hope so.

I agree, we will put an outstanding team on the floor for at least the next two years, but you must keep stocking up.
We could loose Mercedes Russell, and Diamond DeShields after two years, I sure hope not.
 

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