The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of the ND game

[FrozenLVFan]

First, the Good:
--Bashaara Graves. She came to play last night (unlike a couple of others). She played tough. She nearly had a career night. Somehow her stellar performance has nearly gotten lost in all the whining.
--Carter's defense on Loyd. When she was actually on Loyd, Loyd had to settle for bad shots (some of which she unfortunately made). The problem was ND's screens, because all it took was a split second for the switch to happen and Loyd had enough space to drive or shoot.
--Our ball movement on offense. This is 500% better than the start of the season and along with offensive RB's got us 75 shot attempts to ND's 55.
--Middleton gets an A for hustle. She was over her head in last night's game but is a bright spot for the future.

The Bad:
--The fact that we have to rely on a senior for scoring who plays lackadaisical defense and doesn't take care of the ball. She's been playing like this all year and it hurt us last night. Did we not learn anything from the play of Simmons?
--Continued failure to box out.
--Coaching decision not to change to a zone when it became apparent our man defense couldn't switch fast enough to keep up with Loyd.

The Ugly:
--OUR FREAKING INABILITY TO HIT LAYUPS, particularly by our starting center. She was 4-15, and if she had made even 3 of those shots that she missed, we would have won this game. Somehow she needs to find a way to get her head in the game and play tough without fouling. And our coaching staff needs to address the layup problem which is now chronic with most of the team.
--A freshman who's devolved into our worst shooting player, and who now plays so passively that she looks like she doesn't even want to be in the game. WTH is up with all that?

 

[ALLVOL24/7/365]

First, the Good:
--Bashaara Graves. She came to play last night (unlike a couple of others). She played tough. She nearly had a career night. Somehow her stellar performance has nearly gotten lost in all the whining.
--Carter's defense on Loyd. When she was actually on Loyd, Loyd had to settle for bad shots (some of which she unfortunately made). The problem was ND's screens, because all it took was a split second for the switch to happen and Loyd had enough space to drive or shoot.
--Our ball movement on offense. This is 500% better than the start of the season and along with offensive RB's got us 75 shot attempts to ND's 55.
--Middleton gets an A for hustle. She was over her head in last night's game but is a bright spot for the future.

The Bad:
--The fact that we have to rely on a senior for scoring who plays lackadaisical defense and doesn't take care of the ball. She's been playing like this all year and it hurt us last night. Did we not learn anything from the play of Simmons?
--Continued failure to box out.
--Coaching decision not to change to a zone when it became apparent our man defense couldn't switch fast enough to keep up with Loyd.

The Ugly:
--OUR FREAKING INABILITY TO HIT LAYUPS, particularly by our starting center. She was 4-15, and if she had made even 3 of those shots that she missed, we would have won this game. Somehow she needs to find a way to get her head in the game and play tough without fouling. And our coaching staff needs to address the layup problem which is now chronic with most of the team.
--A freshman who's devolved into our worst shooting player, and who now plays so passively that she looks like she doesn't even want to be in the game. WTH is up with all that?

You may get merged OP but nice accessment and post. Lot of issues thier with fundamentals. The basics of the game. Players should not devolve. Boxing out is a cornerstone of CPS when she coached.

 

[shakearag]

That is an excellent synopsis of the game last night. Izzy has played soft around the basket all year. She is afraid of contact and it shows. And Coach Warlick is over her head coaching against Muffy. Notre Dame must have shot 30 layups yet CHW stayed with the ineffective man to man. Sometimes I think she is retarded.

 

[madtownvol]

Graves - she had her best game in a long while. I hope she has turned the corner and will play like this going forward.

Izzy- She has to learn from this game. Had she been more of a force in the paint (and most of all hit some very makeable shots), this game would have looked a lot different. The LVs are not going to go very far if Izzy keeps having subpar games.

Middleton - good hustle, some nice interior passes that should have led to easy scores (see above). I will give Holly credit for playing her. I think this was a "we will need you in the tournament" decision more than one intended to tip the game. I can respect the hope for long term pay-off but I think the LVs would have been more competitive with Reynolds. In fact, Reynolds had just scored 2 straight hoops when she was pulled for Middleton in the 2nd half. At that point, the LVs desperately needed someone who could create their own shot. [I think Carter started taking it to the basket too late in the game as well].

Massengale -- I don't know. I think her net positive outweighed the negatives. Some of her turn overs had as much to do with post players being passive and not fighting for position.

Nared - did look lost and this seemed to be another, we will need you in the future move. Again, Moore was giving the LVs more on the court. There is no reason she can't play along side Izzy in a PF role.

The reality is that the teams actual depth is not that great. If you we count Middleton and Moore (who seems to be used begrudgingly), the team has 9 solid players in the rotation right now. Jasmine Jones would have brought some needed athleticism and speed to the game at ND. I do hope she can get back soon.

 

[Amb3096]

The Ugly:
--A freshman who's devolved into our worst shooting player, and who now plays so passively that she looks like she doesn't even want to be in the game. WTH is up with all that?

I don't know what's happened with Nared. You're right...she looked like she was going through the motions last night (or maybe that's just her general body language). Must be discouraging to be such a highly rated player coming out of HS and not giving Holly any reason to keep her on the court for more than a handful of minutes. :jpshakehead:

 

[Tennman47]

I think team speed is down compared to the other top 5 teams and the way they push tempo.

 

[volfanIND]

I find it so interesting that Izzy just needed to make 3 of those missed layups and it would of been a different ball game. I agree with your assessment. It's frustrating to read other post about how this whole season is a bust because of this game. Nobody would be talking about the missed rebounds, Lloyds 34 points, CHW coaching, and Izzy's shooting if we would of won...
This team is right their knocking at the door, we just need to get over the hump with CHW and we will be fine.
Freshman will have freshman games from time to time. Just from this whole season, Nared hasn't looked 100% comfortable in our sets, jmo.

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

I agree with the op and the points that are made. Even though we lost the game, I feel even more confident now that we can win the sec. I will say that I was surprised holly didn't try a different defense, like she has against several other teams this season.

 

[sameolvol]

Guess you liked the use of that old Clint Eastwood oater title that I posted less than six hours ago on the football forum (RE: earlier signing for fb commits, pg. 2). That's alright. You were being just slightly less creative than was I by utilizing an already coined phrase. As for the LV's: They were outcoached.

 

[FrozenLVFan]

Guess you liked the use of that old Clint Eastwood oater title that I posted less than six hours ago on the football forum (RE: earlier signing for fb commits, pg. 2). That's alright. You were being just slightly less creative than was I by utilizing an already coined phrase. As for the LV's: They were outcoached.

:blink: Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread. :haha_oh:

BTW, I don't read the football forum.

 

[armchair]

Warlick made two mistakes: First, we needed to slow the tempo, which was too fast for us and exactly the type of game that a high-scoring offense like ND's wants. We went up and down the court with them, and did pretty well for a while--but that was not the way to play an excellent offensive team like ND. Second, she inexplicably stayed with a man defense--a man defense that gave up most of ND's incredible 46 points in the paints. You, as coach, have to see the obvious during a game, and make adjustments. We played a little zone--but not nearly enough. I'm not suggesting that a zone would have won the game for us--but we would not have been giving up so many layups--and this is the third time that we've gotten killed playing man defense against them.

Also, our defenders are making a fundamental mistake when playing man defense--and it is shocking (not) that this apparently has not been addressed by the coaches. When you switch on defense--and say, Carter finds herself guarding a big after the big as set a pick for Lloyd, and Graves finds herself guarding Lloyd coming off the pick, if you have a chance to switch back, you should do so. If you don't do so, then our defenders are mismatched against their players--and good teams will take advantage. Lloyd, seeing that she is now being guarded by taller, slower player, will blow by Graves and score. Or the bigger player that Carter switched to will post down low, get the ball and score. That is why, if you get a chance, and often you do, the two players should communicate and switch back. We switch, but we don't switch back when we can. Sometimes you can't--but sometimes you can, and you should or teams like ND see the mismatches and score. Fundamental basketball.

It is unfortunate that we are not getting more out of Nared, who does have this seemingly disinterested style of play. Middleton will be ok--great work ethic and IQ-- but struggle against good teams. As someone said above, without Jones, depth is now a problem for this team, given that our freshman are not nearly ready to contribute in games like this, and Moore isn't ready for prime time either. Learn and improve--that's all we can do.

 

[madtownvol]

Warlick made two mistakes: First, we needed to slow the tempo, which was too fast for us and exactly the type of game that a high-scoring offense like ND's wants. We went up and down the court with them, and did pretty well for a while--but that was not the way to play an excellent offensive team like ND. Second, she inexplicably stayed with a man defense--a man defense that gave up most of ND's incredible 46 points in the paints. You, as coach, have to see the obvious during a game, and make adjustments. We played a little zone--but not nearly enough. I'm not suggesting that a zone would have won the game for us--but we would not have been giving up so many layups--and this is the third time that we've gotten killed playing man defense against them.

Also, our defenders are making a fundamental mistake when playing man defense--and it is shocking (not) that this apparently has not been addressed by the coaches. When you switch on defense--and say, Carter finds herself guarding a big after the big as set a pick for Lloyd, and Graves finds herself guarding Lloyd coming off the pick, if you have a chance to switch back, you should do so. If you don't do so, then our defenders are mismatched against their players--and good teams will take advantage. Lloyd, seeing that she is now being guarded by taller, slower player, will blow by Graves and score. Or the bigger player that Carter switched to will post down low, get the ball and score. That is why, if you get a chance, and often you do, the two players should communicate and switch back. We switch, but we don't switch back when we can. Sometimes you can't--but sometimes you can, and you should or teams like ND see the mismatches and score. Fundamental basketball.

You are absolutely right on the tempo. The LVs fell into ND's tempo. Offensively, they did okay but they could not control the faster and generally more athletic ND players in a run and gun game. But one reason they got into that tempo was missing shots which allowed ND to get out on fast breaks. As one announcer said, sometimes a missed shot can be as bad as a turnover.

Zone versus man to man. I don't know. It was a little bit of pick your poison. ND was shooting very well from behind the arc and Lloyd was killing us in one-on-one isolation. But, the zone opened up the interior and as I have said before Izzy was not providing the post presence.

Per switching, ND was in full attack mode, going to the rim once they got the mismatch. In many cases, they did not give the LVs time to think about switching back. No doubt, ND had a good game plan and very good execution.

Honestly for this game, there were no easy coaching solutions. Making shots, not making turnovers at critical junctures, and boxing out down the stretch are execution issues not X's and O's.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

You are absolutely right on the tempo. The LVs fell into ND's tempo. Offensively, they did okay but they could not control the faster and generally more athletic ND players in a run and gun game. But one reason they got into that tempo was missing shots which allowed ND to get out on fast breaks. As one announcer said, sometimes a missed shot can be as bad as a turnover.

Zone versus man to man. I don't know. It was a little bit of pick your poison. ND was shooting very well from behind the arc and Lloyd was killing us in one-on-one isolation. But, the zone opened up the interior and as I have said before Izzy was not providing the post presence.

Per switching, ND was in full attack mode, going to the rim once they got the mismatch. In many cases, they did not give the LVs time to think about switching back. No doubt, ND had a good game plan and very good execution.

Honestly for this game, there were no easy coaching solutions. Making shots, not making turnovers at critical junctures, and boxing out down the stretch are execution issues not X's and O's.

ND tore our man defense to sherds. Backdoor cuts and the inability to prevent the mismatch on the switching at the top of the paint permitted at least 15 uncontested shots for ND. No team can give up those easy shots and win against good teams. Despite the defensive problems, the LVs could still have won the game if they could make half of their layups.

 

[Sandvol]

It wasn't really our defense that led to the loss though. Yes, we gave up too many back doors but we did adjust to it. It was our inability to finish at the rim that was inexplicable. Like some one showed we had 74 shots to their 55. We should have won.

 

[gule]

new starting 5?

dunbar, graves, moore, middleton, burdick.

dunbar to shoot, graves to rebound/D, Moore to hit a damn layup, middleton pg, burdick to throw no look passes and make hulk faces into the camera.....

 

[Darth_Vol]

It wasn't really our defense that led to the loss though. Yes, we gave up too many back doors but we did adjust to it.

Adjusted to what? They had 88 points and shot extremely well both halves. This loss was absolutely on the defense, which was greatly overrated during the win streak and finally exposed against a good offense.

It was our inability to finish at the rim that was inexplicable. Like some one showed we had 74 shots to their 55. We should have won.

How is it inexplicable? Look at Harrison's shooting percentage. This game wasn't out of the norm for her, she's been missing easy shots all year. Nevertheless, this game was actually one of the better offensive showings from the team. And 77 points should be more than enough to win. Again, this one was on the D....

 

[Sandvol]

Adjusted to what? They had 88 points and shot extremely well both halves. This loss was absolutely on the defense, which was greatly overrated during the win streak and finally exposed against a good offense.




How is it inexplicable? Look at Harrison's shooting percentage. This game wasn't out of the norm for her, she's been missing easy shots all year. Nevertheless, this game was actually one of the better offensive showings from the team. And 77 points should be more than enough to win. Again, this one was on the D....

You should really think about getting a life. We adjusted to it by stopping the back doors. ND still scored other ways but the flurry of back doors stopped. It is inexplicable for Harrison for not just this game but the season in general. She didn't seem to have that problem last year. And, you'd think she would have improved from last year to this. So, it is inexplicable.

 

[Sandvol]

new starting 5?

dunbar, graves, moore, middleton, burdick.

dunbar to shoot, graves to rebound/D, Moore to hit a damn layup, middleton pg, burdick to throw no look passes and make hulk faces into the camera.....

I do wish Holly would try to get Dunbar some more minutes at the 4. I think she has real promise there.

 

[RedDirtRoadVol]

Dunbar = a taller version of Sydney Smallbone

 

[madtownvol]

Dunbar = a taller version of Sydney Smallbone

Yes, there are some disconcerting similarities but I think (hope, really) that Dunbar has a better athletic upside.

 

[Darth_Vol]

You should really think about getting a life. We adjusted to it by stopping the back doors. ND still scored other ways but the flurry of back doors stopped.

And you should watch the game again, if you're saying the game wasn't lost on the defensive end.

It is inexplicable for Harrison for not just this game but the season in general. She didn't seem to have that problem last year. And, you'd think she would have improved from last year to this. So, it is inexplicable.

Yes, typically players improve. With good coaching....

 

[floydius]

Adjusted to what? They had 88 points and shot extremely well both halves. This loss was absolutely on the defense, which was greatly overrated during the win streak and finally exposed against a good offense.




How is it inexplicable? Look at Harrison's shooting percentage. This game wasn't out of the norm for her, she's been missing easy shots all year. Nevertheless, this game was actually one of the better offensive showings from the team. And 77 points should be more than enough to win. Again, this one was on the D....

ND shot 58.2% from the floor and their team FG % for the season is 50.3%. For the season, the Vols' opponents' FG % have been averaging 36.1%.

 

[linkster]

The key to the game was rebounding. Tenn gambled the whole game by sending 3 or even 4 players to the offensive boards. In the first half it paid off. I'm not sure but I think the LV's had 9 offensive rebounds and scored a lot of points on second chance baskets. In the second half Tenn continued to send 3 players but didn't get the rebounds, and that led to N Dame scoring a lot in transition. That's how they opened up their large second half lead that carried them to the end.

It's questionable if a zone would have helped Tenn. N Dame has 4 excellent perimeter shooters in Loyd, Allen, Mabrey and Cable and know how to get them shots against a zone. Mabrey burned Tenn twice early in the game, which forced Tenn to guard her and opened it up for Loyd to score.

If I would have changed anything Tenn did it would have been to take more 3 point shots in the first half. That may have opened up the paint for Harrison, who was doubled and tripled every time she got the ball in the paint. By the time the Tenn guards started shooting 3's (and making several) it was too late.

 

[Sandvol]

And you should watch the game again, if you're saying the game wasn't lost on the defensive end.



Yes, typically players improve. With good coaching....

So the fact that we had 77 shots at the basket to Notre Dame's 55 and we still lost was due to poor defense?

 

[Smallvol#1]

So the fact that we had 77 shots at the basket to Notre Dame's 55 and we still lost was due to poor defense?

There you go; being logical again. You really think missing numerous wide open lay ups could possibly have any effect on the outcome of a game? We obviously should have shot 110 to their 55; or held them to 23 shots.
(I put in the blue font just in case. I don't think you needed it)