Return To Dominance

#1
mlindsay

mlindsay

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#1
I understand a win is a win and I am thankful that we pulled it out, but I am tired of some of the excuses given for why we aren't blowing teams out like we use to (we have the talent too). This isn't a bash Holly thread because I along with countless others have done that but I really want to know what it will take for us to return to a level where teams are afraid to play us (I'm not counting Baylor or Oklahoma who only plays us when they have top talent) I understand that Holly will never be Pat as Pat has set a standard but their has to be some pride with wearing the uniform and coaching this team. How can we get the best out of these players? As a lifelong Lady Vols fan, I would hate to see our program end up like La Tech, Old Dominion, University of Southern Cal (although Cynthia Cooper is trying to bring them back to prominence). With the talent we have it is no way we shouldn't be a top 4 team this year. Just looking for thoughts/ideas on what everyone expects moving forward and what we can do to return to the Holdsclaw and Parker days
 
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#2
#2
First you have to get rid of Holly. But, you better have another coach already lined up if you do that like a Pokey Chapman. Pokey Chapman would be one coach who could return this program to dominance. She did have a bit of a controversial ending at LSU but I would roll the dice that she learned from that.
 
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#4
#4
Players must make shots but you have to put them in a position to make shots. To many of our shots were contested because we were not moving the ball quick enough. Starting Reynolds and Carter together is a recipe for failure neither are great shooters. You would think she would start a shooter with one of them. Reynolds and Middleton, Carter and Massengale or vice versa. You need a shooter on the floor at all times. We went back to trying to force the ball into the post last night because the outside people were afraid to take a shot. It resulted in 18 turnovers a terrible performance by our team last night.
 
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#5
#5
mlindsay said:
I understand a win is a win and I am thankful that we pulled it out, but I am tired of some of the excuses given for why we aren't blowing teams out like we use to (we have the talent too). This isn't a bash Holly thread because I along with countless others have done that but I really want to know what it will take for us to return to a level where teams are afraid to play us (I'm not counting Baylor or Oklahoma who only plays us when they have top talent) I understand that Holly will never be Pat as Pat has set a standard but their has to be some pride with wearing the uniform and coaching this team. How can we get the best out of these players? As a lifelong Lady Vols fan, I would hate to see our program end up like La Tech, Old Dominion, University of Southern Cal (although Cynthia Cooper is trying to bring them back to prominence). With the talent we have it is no way we shouldn't be a top 4 team this year. Just looking for thoughts/ideas on what everyone expects moving forward and what we can do to return to the Holdsclaw and Parker days
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Hopefully Diamond will be a dominant player like Holdsclaw and Parker. We do not have a dominant player on the roster this season. None are go to players it makes it difficult when no one can score. You need a dependable scorer we don't have one on the perimeter so teams clog up Harrison and take their chances on outside shooters. It almost worked for Wichita State last night.
 
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#6
#6
Volfan2012 said:
Hopefully Diamond will be a dominant player like Holdsclaw and Parker. We do not have a dominant player on the roster this season. None are go to players it makes it difficult when no one can score. You need a dependable scorer we don't have one on the perimeter so teams clog up Harrison and take their chances on outside shooters. It almost worked for Wichita State last night.
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But why will we not pass to an open player on the perimeter but instead force it inside to a post that has two or three defenders on her? I do not believe these girls are selfish. So do they have NO confidence in each other's shooting abilities or are they directed to forego passes outside and go inside no matter what?

After last night.....it was painful to watch.
 
#7
#7
All the players except Harrison are playing offense with fear. Simple. The difference between the All Americans on the team now to when we won championships. The players ran the offense.
#1 You have to have a play maker. Hands down, Have to have that. Harrison has to "receive" the ball to make a play.
All of our greats could take the ball at the top of the key and make something happen. Harrison can't do that. (I think Diamond will bring this) Holdsclaw, Catchings, Parker, I didn't follow Tennessee until 98' so I won't try and bring up players before them, but I know we had some.
#2 Sometimes you just have to let players play offense. Let them go. Point in case
Last year SEC tournament, Jordan Reynolds just played. Had the attitude of I'm going to score and win. This year its more... stand in this spot, dribble over there, then after the clap your hands and turn yourself around... Not going to work

I give Burdick credit last night, at least she kept trying to shoot the 10 footer. But we all know jump shots come from reps .... The players need to be shooting reps.

I'm from Indiana and Catch was talking about her shooting slump and she said she just had to do shooting reps everyday ... and she did. I believe she said she had to make 500 shots before she left for the day. #dedication
So not everything falls on the coach. You need some player accountability.
 
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#8
#8
It looks like today is "fear factor" day. It is a great reality show but perhaps a little over blown in terms of effecting basketball games. During CPS great run, she had teams that had clunker games, got blown out by the likes of Duke, Texas, and UConn, and had many dog fights with Vandy, LSU, Georgia, and various other SEC teams who fortunes have risen and fallen (MSU, Florida). Now, at home, against smaller programs, the LV aura and 15-20K screaming fans did intimidate teams but most teams now come into TBA with a mindset of not letting that happen. Plus, as the women's game has grown more and more players have some experience of playing in front of larger crowds.

My point is that there is no real point to romanticizing "the stare" (which had become very stale and not all that effective in the last 5 years of CPS run). In the great days, teams probably feared having match up with defenders like Semeka Randall and Alex Hornbuckle or Kyra Elzy or having to guard the likes of Parker, Catchings, Gordon.

But, the sky is not falling after Wichita. Really, this team had less than a 48 hour turn around from a mentally and physically demanding game against Rutgers on the road. They ground out a win against a scrappy and well coached Wichita team. It was not a great night for the team but they found a way to win. Lots of top teams have those kind of wins on their resume during the season.

Once again, Stanford will be the bench mark. Before Rutgers I was really pessimistic about the LVs prospects; now, I think they will definitely make a game of it.
 
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#9
#9
volfanIND said:
I give Burdick credit last night, at least she kept trying to shoot the 10 footer. But we all know jump shots come from reps .... The players need to be shooting reps.

I'm from Indiana and Catch was talking about her shooting slump and she said she just had to do shooting reps everyday ... and she did. I believe she said she had to make 500 shots before she left for the day. #dedication
So not everything falls on the coach. You need some player accountability.
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Burdick on offense did last night exactly what she should be doing when she's on the court: if a makeable shot is there, then take it with no hesitation. She looked confident in the shot.

The ugliness of last night's game was largely caused by all of the guards not named Alexa Middleton. WS left Carter and Reynolds wide open, and neither of them attacked the basket. They would look left, then right, then left, then at the basket, then try to throw the ball to Izzy or Bashaara with 4 players blanketing them. Ariel was a turnover machine and wasn't able to make outside shots to open the middle for the two posts. Nared came in and was largely invisible on both ends of the floor.

The guards need to produce. Until they start doing so consistently, teams will just swarm the post and dare them to shoo---I mean, pass into a quadruple team in the post.

God forbid, if not for Cierra Burdick, then Tennessee would have lost this game.
 
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#10
#10
Amb3096 said:
God forbid, if not for Cierra Burdick, then Tennessee would have lost this game.
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First time this year I've seen anybody praise her. But I agree with this statement 100%

All in all, your spot on!

Burdick/Middleton deserve the game ball. Harrison was good enough and nice to see her running the floor once again.
 
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#11
#11
We all got spoiled the last 30 years with the MOTHER OF COLLEGE BASKETBALL COACH PAT, but Holly is not the answer to get us back for competing for final 4s year in and year out, if you wont to settle for sweet 16s then she is the coach for the job.
 
#12
#12
Our guard play is not good. Massengale is talented but she's become a huge disappointment. She does not impact a game like a player with her talent and experience should. She is SOFT in every way--no competitive fire, that is my biggest problem with her. Carter is an excellent athlete--but she is not being used properly. She should be the PG, in my view, and put Massengale at the 2. As I've said before, we've got a problem in that we really have 4 natural point guards and no natural shooting guard.

But the big problem is that we have a weak head coach and staff. Warlick is a nice person but she is way over her head and even the best of circumstances was a stop-gap. Hart should be conducting a serious search for our next coach RIGHT now. There are a LOT of good basketball coaches out there, but you want to find the right one, of course. We have also had a lot of weird issues with injuries, suspensions, the whole Tucker saga. Good grief.
 
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#13
#13
armchair said:
Our guard play is not good. Massengale is talented but she's become a huge disappointment. She does not impact a game like a player with her talent and experience should. She is SOFT in every way--no competitive fire, that is my biggest problem with her. Carter is an excellent athlete--but she is not being used properly. She should be the PG, in my view, and put Massengale at the 2. As I've said before, we've got a problem in that we really have 4 natural point guards and no natural shooting guard.

But the big problem is that we have a weak head coach and staff. Warlick is a nice person but she is way over her head and even the best of circumstances was a stop-gap. Hart should be conducting a serious search for our next coach RIGHT now. There are a LOT of good basketball coaches out there, but you want to find the right one, of course. We have also had a lot of weird issues with injuries, suspensions, the whole Tucker saga. Good grief.
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You definitely need a penetrating guard at the point that can kick it for open outside shots. I don't think Reynolds is that kind of guard and we eat up to much shot clock getting into an offense with her at the point. Holly always says don't quick shoot but you have to take the first open one. If you get to late in the shot clock your going to get a bad shot as fear sets in.
Carter has presently lost her shooting touch but she can still get inside the paint draw the defense and get Middleton and Massengale some open looks. We also probably should think about setting up Dunbar for a few shots per game.
Until we find an outside solution to the sagging man to man the offense will struggle mightily. If we can't hit enough outside shots to make teams play honest defense we'll lose a lot more games.
 
#14
#14
armchair said:
Our guard play is not good. Massengale is talented but she's become a huge disappointment. She does not impact a game like a player with her talent and experience should. She is SOFT in every way--no competitive fire, that is my biggest problem with her. Carter is an excellent athlete--but she is not being used properly. She should be the PG, in my view, and put Massengale at the 2. As I've said before, we've got a problem in that we really have 4 natural point guards and no natural shooting guard.

But the big problem is that we have a weak head coach and staff. Warlick is a nice person but she is way over her head and even the best of circumstances was a stop-gap. Hart should be conducting a serious search for our next coach RIGHT now. There are a LOT of good basketball coaches out there, but you want to find the right one, of course. We have also had a lot of weird issues with injuries, suspensions, the whole Tucker saga. Good grief.
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The biggest problem is that neither of the starting guards are offensive threats. That kills the offense, because it's essentially 2 players (Bashaara, Izzy) trying to score around 5 defenders. Jasmine helps as another scoring option, but her putting the ball on the floor elicits about as much confidence as a 16-year old driving a tractor trailer while texting and eating a cheeseburger.

Maybe Jannah can help, but I'd take Massengale and her deficiencies over Carter at this point...at least until Carter becomes assertive on the offensive side. The offense sputters to a grinding halt when Reynolds/Carter start and play together for prolonged stretches, and Holly needs to wake up and see that.
 
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#15
#15
Smallvol#1 said:
But why will we not pass to an open player on the perimeter but instead force it inside to a post that has two or three defenders on her? I do not believe these girls are selfish. So do they have NO confidence in each other's shooting abilities or are they directed to forego passes outside and go inside no matter what?

After last night.....it was painful to watch.
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That is on Holly she is constantly preaching to the team to get the ball inside. Sometimes that is not possible. You have to loosen teams up with some perimeter shots when they sag in like Wichita State did last night. After we missed a few perimeter shots we got real reluctant to take them and this is when the turnovers started. I think Dunbar could have helped last night maybe Tucker we will never know we do need some shooters.
 
#16
#16
All this talk about personnel is irrelevant as long as Hollyball is in effect. Not even Deshields is going to save this trainwreck....
 
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#18
#18
I think when we get a dominant player like Diamond in the lineup and hopefully Mercedes bigger and stronger in the post. If we still look like we do this year we should fire Holly. If she can't generate and offense with a players like Diamond, Cooper, and Russell we need to let her go. Still a ways to go before next year but I am already fearful that we may see Reynolds start at point over Cooper and Carter at the two over Diamond. If that becomes a fact we need to fire Holly that would be to much to take.
 
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#21
#21
Darth_Vol said:
All this talk about personnel is irrelevant as long as Hollyball is in effect. Not even Deshields is going to save this trainwreck....
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I will go on record now as saying that I think it will be up to DeShields, Cooper, and Russell to save Holly. I look for this season to end before the Sweet Sixteen with a 4th/5th place finish in the SEC. The trend over Holly's tenure will have then been negative (Elite 8, Sweet 16, est. loss before Sweet 16). Combine this will how poor our play has looked over the last couple of years and opposing teams are going to have all the fodder they need to negative recruit against us. Hell, it is already happening.

It will be up to that group to get the momentum back to SOS.
 
#22
#22
Of course having DeShields will help some--but next year Izzy will be gone, and our offense will still sux because teams will focus on DeShields and everybody else will be standing around hoping she can score. Anybody can put excellent players on the floor and pretend to be a good coach. Izzy is good, but beyond her we do not have any great players. But we've got a bunch of pretty good players and good athletes--and good coaches distinguish themselves by taking a group like ours and turning into a good team. Bad coaches do not. You see what we are--not good.

I used to chuck when Parker played for us. When she was in the game, the offense always //seemed// decent because she could score when we needed a score, and she could pass, and Anosike was big and athletic. But whenever Parker went to the bench, our offense immediately reverted to bad because PS, like Warlick, did not have a crisp offensive system like Ct. does. If you can't take the players we have and produce a pretty solid offense, then you shouldn't be coaching because, while we have some deficiencies, about 99 percent of the coaches in American would try their talent for ours.
 
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#23
#23
armchair said:
Of course having DeShields will help some--but next year Izzy will be gone, and our offense will still sux because teams will focus on DeShields and everybody else will be standing around hoping she can score. Anybody can put excellent players on the floor and pretend to be a good coach. Izzy is good, but beyond her we do not have any great players. But we've got a bunch of pretty good players and good athletes--and good coaches distinguish themselves by taking a group like ours and turning into a good team. Bad coaches do not. You see what we are--not good.

I used to chuck when Parker played for us. When she was in the game, the offense always //seemed// decent because she could score when we needed a score, and she could pass, and Anosike was big and athletic. But whenever Parker went to the bench, our offense immediately reverted to bad because PS, like Warlick, did not have a crisp offensive system like Ct. does. If you can't take the players we have and produce a pretty solid offense, then you shouldn't be coaching because, while we have some deficiencies, about 99 percent of the coaches in American would try their talent for ours.
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Have to disagree. I guess I'm seeing this with orange-colored glasses, but from what I've seen there is some talent coming together. Also, Witch State, is better than you think (apparently you watched that game).
Holly will win, not only with this team, but next years will be even better. :yes::yes:

GO VOLS!
 
#24
#24
Tucker if she comes back healthy, her and Deshields should lead us back to the final four. No one can stop Deshields, she's like the next version of Diana Taurasi, without the consistent 3 ball, once she shoots the 3 ball better,it's over, whereas Tucker game was similar to Maya. It should be nice.

Guard play will be the key this season, they will be the difference between league championships cos really the only team with really good guard play is Texas AM. If we had there guards, Final 4.

Guard play,defense and rebounding returns us to dominance.
 
#25
#25
A lot of time we recruit athletes rather than players with high bball IQ, very rare you find both in the women's game, when you do they dominate, and then if they are alpha you win a lot of ball games, we finally have one, possible two to three.
 
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