So, what is UConn doing to prevent turnovers which we aren't?

[Voluble2]

Are they running different passing or spacing drills? If so, what do these drills consist of? Does their offense have some ingredient that doesn't put them in position to turn the ball over as much? Are their players just naturally better passers and better athletes? Is it height? Is it the fact that they can all hit the open shot at a higher rate than we can so they don't end up making too many passes or dribbling into trouble trying to get better position or trying to find a play maker?

What is it EXACTLY that we need to fix?

 

[supersmo18]

Better athletes and better coaching. I don't think Holly is bad per se, but she is nowhere near the caliber coach of that mobster at UConn, nor is she as good of a recruiter. He can flaunt all the NCs that he's won, but Holly hadn't done enough on her own at this point to prove she's worthy of the elite players wanting to play for her.

 

[orangeluvr]

Are they running different passing or spacing drills? If so, what do these drills consist of? Does their offense have some ingredient that doesn't put them in position to turn the ball over as much? Are their players just naturally better passers and better athletes? Is it height? Is it the fact that they can all hit the open shot at a higher rate than we can so they don't end up making too many passes or dribbling into trouble trying to get better position or trying to find a play maker?

What is it EXACTLY that we need to fix?

Beats the sh!t outta me! :dunno:

 

[Volfan2012]

You take four players away and our turnover situation doesn't look so bad. We had four players commit 327 turnovers. Number one committed a turnover every 7.6 minutes played. Number two committed a turnover every 8.4 minutes. Number three committed a turnover every 10.5 minutes. Number four committed a turnover every 12.3 minutes. A lot of these turnovers were bad decisions. All four of these players try to force a play. A lack of solid decision making were the result of why these four players committed over half our total turnovers for the season.

The rest of the team averaged a turnover every 16.3 minutes played. That results in 12.2 turnovers per game. The above four players averaged 20.2 per 40 minutes played. UConn as a team averaged 11.5 per game.

The only thing I can see is that UConn has five players on the floor that make great decisions with the ball. If they have an open shot they take it and they usually have players that can make shots 50.3 percent as a team. We have a few players that refuse to take the open shot and as a result pass into a turnover. Some of our players can't shoot as well as UConn players that is also a factor as to why they don't shoot. UConn seldom plays more than eight players and he makes sure the eight he chooses are on the same page. I think he looks at shooting percentages when he recruits a player and also their stats as far as assists and rebounds. We just recruit athletes regardless of what stats they put up or what type of floor game they play.
Where do we need to go to get better? I think the coaches need to run the players through a heavy course of basketball IQ what should they do in a particular situation. We also have to let the players that can make shots shoot a lot more than players that can't shoot for a percentage.
If you look at last year's stats we had players with the lowest percentages taking most of the shots. 1259 shots resulted in a .371 shooting percentage. 928 shots resulted in .541 percentage.

So to really sum up our team last year we had several players making decisions with the ball that couldn't handle that decision. We had players taking a majority of shots that couldn't make a high enough percentage to be taking them in the first place. Third opponents shot 36.6 percent against our defense with the better teams getting in the high forties so defense was not very good. Holly claimed they worked on it all pre-season. UConn allowed teams to only shoot 31 percent last season.

Overall in this next season it all comes down to personnel decisions. You must have players on the floor that can make shots plus play defense. You can't go to far into your bench 8 or 9 players maximum. You have to develop you offensive game around players that can make shots at a high percentage and they are the go to players every game. Players that can't play defense can't get minutes period. Turnovers were a problem mainly because our coaches kept letting the same four player commit turnover after turnover without benching them or educating them on what they needed to do with the ball.
So where UConn beats everybody is by being smarter than everybody. The players he lets play can shoot and play defense. If they can't do both they don't play. They also understand their role on the floor talent plus brains is where they have a huge edge over everybody else.

 

[Voluble2]

Better athletes and better coaching. Jo don't think Holly is bad per se, but she is nowhere near the caliber coach of that mobster at UConn, nor is she as good of a recruiter. He can flaunt all the NCs that he's won, but Holly hadn't done enough on her own at this point to prove she's worthy of the elite players wanting to play for her.

What I am after is in what specific way he is better at coaching. How does he teach things differently? What different drills do they do etc... I guess it is unlikely anyone here will know.

If it is just talent then the answer is recruiting similar talent. If not then we had best start doing what he is doing. I doubt it is a secret. There are enough former players, media people, coaches etc... around who know what he does. Maybe he doesn't do anything different at all except pick players who are better at protecting the ball?

 

[Volfan2012]

He doesn't do a lot different than anyone else. They play a match up zone which basically is a man to man which protects your weakest man defense players from getting beat to often. I said we should play a match up zone instead of a straight man to man because we have a couple players that can't guard anybody.
It is basically about his players talent level look at his top five versus our top five last season.

Stewart .497 shooting percentage 67 turnovers 122 assists
Lewis .465 shooting percentage 38 turnovers 72 assists
Dolson .564 shooting percentage 103 turnovers 135 assists
Hartley .470 shooting percentage 83 turnovers 173 assists
Jefferson .575 shooting percentage 66 turnovers 195 = 357 turnovers 697 assists

Simmons .416 shooting percentage 93 turnovers 80 assists
Harrison .577 shooting percentage 96 turnovers 35 assists
Graves .535 shooting percentage 53 turnovers 43 assists
Carter .457 shooting percentage 49 turnovers 81 assists
Burdick .393 shooting percentage 68 turnovers 70 assists
Massengale .383 shooting percentage 47 turnovers 110 assists


406 turnovers 429 assists.

His five starters took 2036 total shots made 1034 for .508 percent.
Our starters took 1699 total shots made 780 .459 percent.



Their starting five and even their bench far more talented. 697 assists to our 429 tells you everything you need to know about their players talent level. .508 shooting to our .459. He recruits great passers and scorers. He insists that the best players take the majority of the shots.Talent is always the answer.

 

[Volfan2012]

To add his starters all play 30 minutes or more a game we spread out the minutes more among nine players.

 

[GameTime]

A large percentage of our turnovers was from the philosophy that we have to get the ball into the paint.....It was an obsession that affected the whole team....At the core of our offensive failures was that one driving thought..."I must get the ball into the paint!" It led to the guards passing the ball into a double covered post player or guards dribbling away seconds trying to get the ball into the paint....Not sound basketball philosophy.

Geno's practices are suppose to be legendary for their difficulty...What the hell he does must be a secret, because no one talks about it.

Geno the coach is a hell of a coach, the man I don't know.

Never during a player interview or a coach interview, have I ever heard a UConn player say we have to get the ball into the paint, but in almost every LadyVOl interview, getting the ball into the paint is the central theme.

 

[Volfan2012]

A large percentage of our turnovers was from the philosophy that we have to get the ball into the paint.....It was an obsession that affected the whole team....At the core of our offensive failures was that one driving thought..."I must get the ball into the paint!" It led to the guards passing the ball into a double covered post player or guards dribbling away seconds trying to get the ball into the paint....Not sound basketball philosophy.

Geno's practices are suppose to be legendary for their difficulty...What the hell he does must be a secret, because no one talks about it.

Geno the coach is a hell of a coach, the man I don't know.

Never during a player interview or a coach interview, have I ever heard a UConn player say we have to get the ball into the paint, but in almost every LadyVOl interview, getting the ball into the paint is the central theme.

Lol that is the first thing Holly says when questioned at halftime. We have to get the ball inside. It is a repeat performance 30 games a season. We then try it two or three times with the post players not moving at all. We turn it over and then start jacking up threes.

 

[orangeluvr]

We need some paint remover.

 

[Rudy123]

Are they running different passing or spacing drills? If so, what do these drills consist of? Does their offense have some ingredient that doesn't put them in position to turn the ball over as much? Are their players just naturally better passers and better athletes? Is it height? Is it the fact that they can all hit the open shot at a higher rate than we can so they don't end up making too many passes or dribbling into trouble trying to get better position or trying to find a play maker?

What is it EXACTLY that we need to fix?

Fix the turn overs. Better passing maybe!

 

[GameTime]

We need some paint remover.

Now that made me laugh.....

I'm on my way to Lowes right now....

 

[armchair]

He doesn't do a lot different than anyone else. They play a match up zone which basically is a man to man which protects your weakest man defense players from getting beat to often. I said we should play a match up zone instead of a straight man to man because we have a couple players that can't guard anybody.
It is basically about his players talent level look at his top five versus our top five last season.

Stewart .497 shooting percentage 67 turnovers 122 assists
Lewis .465 shooting percentage 38 turnovers 72 assists
Dolson .564 shooting percentage 103 turnovers 135 assists
Hartley .470 shooting percentage 83 turnovers 173 assists
Jefferson .575 shooting percentage 66 turnovers 195 = 357 turnovers 697 assists

Simmons .416 shooting percentage 93 turnovers 80 assists
Harrison .577 shooting percentage 96 turnovers 35 assists
Graves .535 shooting percentage 53 turnovers 43 assists
Carter .457 shooting percentage 49 turnovers 81 assists
Burdick .393 shooting percentage 68 turnovers 70 assists
Massengale .383 shooting percentage 47 turnovers 110 assists


406 turnovers 429 assists.

His five starters took 2036 total shots made 1034 for .508 percent.
Our starters took 1699 total shots made 780 .459 percent.



Their starting five and even their bench far more talented. 697 assists to our 429 tells you everything you need to know about their players talent level. .508 shooting to our .459. He recruits great passers and scorers. He insists that the best players take the majority of the shots.Talent is always the answer.

Did everybody see these numbers? UConn twice as many assists as turnovers. UT assists and turnovers practically even. Speaks VOLUMES about the two teams. These stats aren't a one-year thing--they are a 20-year thing. I know because I've been pointing it out for YEARS.

It is not the players Geno recruits, however: IT IS COACHING, and it has been the big difference between the two programs since Geno first started at Ct. I saw the difference 20 years ago, when Ct. didn't have much talent but they passed the ball so much better than UT did. Geno teaches his team to move the basketball--quickly and crisply; to move without the ball, to run plays until someone gets open.

On the other hand, UT's coaches have been CLUELESS about good half-court offense and good passing for 20 years. PS did not know how to teach good ball movement and passing and neither does Warlick. Basically, Summitt's idea of a good offense was to throw it to the best player and hope she can score--and Warlick pretty does the same thing. This, simply put, is why ND has been kicking our butt (they are an excellent passing team too) and why Ct. would if we played them. Our players threw it Harrison or Simmons last year--and if they were not open, two things often would happen. Simmons would shoot it anyway or one of the other players would go into a panic mode and throw the ball away. Will it change this year? I doubt it.

 

[TNRazor]

I despise Geno as much as I do any coach in any sport, college or pro, but the fact is that he recruits top talent and develops it. If you look at sheer recruiting, UT and Uconn are almost neck and neck, but he gets a lot more out of his players than Holly does.

 

[Voluble2]

[/B][/B]

Now that made me laugh.....

I'm on my way to Lowes right now....

This isn't a joke, but my wife is at Lowes right now looking at paint for my daughter's room. If only I had known the solution was so easy...

 

[wbbfan52]

Do the players who played for Geno and are now coaching have similar success as Geno in turnovers?

Could it be that Geno recruits players with less propensity to turn the ball over.

Are we getting as good a players?
Sometimes there is more to talent than just ratings.

I am intrigued how Geno gets top rated posts that we don't get. We get athletic post and he gets post players who seem to play smart and have well rounded games. Now there are exceptions to this but as a rule I think this is true.

There are drills that I am sure most teams run that work on ball handling but I think this goes beyond drills.

I don't think we can just run certain drills to help prevent our turnovers. It has to be a mindset and I don't have that answer.

If we were getting the same talent then we need to fire some coaches because they are not developing. I don't think we are getting the same level of players(my opinion).

I also don't think we do a good job of developing players. Don't know if it's bad enough to fire someone. Someone has to decide if we won't to attempt to get to the next level and that might require a change.

I am struck by the confidence level his players play with. I know there are sometimes players who don't live up to hype but overall they have been doing it.

The success they have enjoyed and they lost one f the best in Delle Donne.

I don't want this to be a tribute to UConn but if we want to talk about being on their level then we must speak of their success.

Looking at the last few Uconn recruiting classes, is there any reason to see a drop in their level of play. If not then we need to get much better.

98
Gabby Williams, G (knee surgery)
POS Rank G #2

98
Sadie Edwards, G
POS Rank G #3

97
Courtney Ekmark, G
POS Rank G #5

97
Kia Nurse, W
POS Rank W #10

98
Breanna Stewart, F
POS Rank F #1

98
Moriah Jefferson, PG
POS Rank PG #1

97
Morgan Tuck, F
POS Rank F #3

98
Katie Lou Samuelson, W
POS Rank W #1

98
Napheesa Collier, W
POS Rank W #2

97
De'Janae Boykin, F
POS Rank F #2

Add these players to the already outstanding juniors:
Stokes
Stewart
Banks

Another strong player coming in who was ranked #47 at her position and was Big East Player of the year. yuch.

“I think Natalie Butler has the potential to be a great player,” Bruno said. “She’s strong at the basket, a great rebounder. She catches anything that’s thrown to her and she finishes extremely well. And she’s a solid interior passer.”

Now we can play what if and look at
Kaela Davis & Delino Deshields & Tucker all playing for us last year and then things could have been different.

We are not the only team trying to get there. Notre Dame, Stanford and others are trying and I am sure they are asking similar questions about what can we do that they are doing.

Right now Geno is the Nick Saban of WBB. He is getting great talent and developing that talent. It is a sad time for this Lady Vol fan.

I think we have some very good talent and we could get to the final 4 with the right contributions from the newcomers and with better coaching.

We can only hope and ask these kind of questions. Hopefully the coaching staff is doing the same and hopefully they can find the answers.

If not we may have to learn to accept the situation. We don't have the right to think we deserve to be the best again. It will be something the coaching staff and Administration will have to work very hard to attain.

We have to have a better inducement than we were the best back when.

I for one do not like giving any props to UConn but it is true right now, they are by far the best program and we need to narrow the gap.

 

[GameTime]

Do the players who played for Geno and are now coaching have similar success as Geno in turnovers?

Could it be that Geno recruits players with less propensity to turn the ball over.

Are we getting as good a players?
Sometimes there is more to talent than just ratings.

I am intrigued how Geno gets top rated posts that we don't get. We get athletic post and he gets post players who seem to play smart and have well rounded games. Now there are exceptions to this but as a rule I think this is true.

There are drills that I am sure most teams run that work on ball handling but I think this goes beyond drills.

I don't think we can just run certain drills to help prevent our turnovers. It has to be a mindset and I don't have that answer.

If we were getting the same talent then we need to fire some coaches because they are not developing. I don't think we are getting the same level of players(my opinion).

I also don't think we do a good job of developing players. Don't know if it's bad enough to fire someone. Someone has to decide if we won't to attempt to get to the next level and that might require a change.

I am struck by the confidence level his players play with. I know there are sometimes players who don't live up to hype but overall they have been doing it.

The success they have enjoyed and they lost one f the best in Delle Donne.

I don't want this to be a tribute to UConn but if we want to talk about being on their level then we must speak of their success.

Looking at the last few Uconn recruiting classes, is there any reason to see a drop in their level of play. If not then we need to get much better.

98
Gabby Williams, G (knee surgery)
POS Rank G #2

98
Sadie Edwards, G
POS Rank G #3

97
Courtney Ekmark, G
POS Rank G #5

97
Kia Nurse, W
POS Rank W #10

98
Breanna Stewart, F
POS Rank F #1

98
Moriah Jefferson, PG
POS Rank PG #1

97
Morgan Tuck, F
POS Rank F #3

98
Katie Lou Samuelson, W
POS Rank W #1

98
Napheesa Collier, W
POS Rank W #2

97
De'Janae Boykin, F
POS Rank F #2

Add these players to the already outstanding juniors:
Stokes
Stewart
Banks

Another strong player coming in who was ranked #47 at her position and was Big East Player of the year. yuch.

“I think Natalie Butler has the potential to be a great player,” Bruno said. “She’s strong at the basket, a great rebounder. She catches anything that’s thrown to her and she finishes extremely well. And she’s a solid interior passer.”

Now we can play what if and look at
Kaela Davis & Delino Deshields & Tucker all playing for us last year and then things could have been different.

We are not the only team trying to get there. Notre Dame, Stanford and others are trying and I am sure they are asking similar questions about what can we do that they are doing.

Right now Geno is the Nick Saban of WBB. He is getting great talent and developing that talent. It is a sad time for this Lady Vol fan.

I think we have some very good talent and we could get to the final 4 with the right contributions from the newcomers and with better coaching.

We can only hope and ask these kind of questions. Hopefully the coaching staff is doing the same and hopefully they can find the answers.

If not we may have to learn to accept the situation. We don't have the right to think we deserve to be the best again. It will be something the coaching staff and Administration will have to work very hard to attain.

We have to have a better inducement than we were the best back when.

I for one do not like giving any props to UConn but it is true right now, they are by far the best program and we need to narrow the gap.

Good post son.....UConn is the best for now, but a new season begins anew and we will see what shakes out this season....

Dolson's big butt in the middle was a big plus for them at both ends of the court.....She will be missed...

Stewart is the current straw that stirs their drink....She appears to be the best player in WCBB....Her length makes up for a lot of mistakes they make...Lewis is a constant 3 point banger and Jefferson is a basket slasher....They will be good, no question about that.

Their soft schedule will be a bonus as well.....They should be fresh and full of confidence come NCAA time.

Since we don't play them, lucky us, our team will learn how good it is when we play the difficult SEC schedule.

What I'm hoping for is the perimeter players for us have the ability and courage to shoot the ball and score....

If they have the fortitude to remember their pedigree, and play like champions, this team will be very good.

 

[shakearag]

Some extremely solid points made in this thread. IMO it's a combination of recruiting the wrong type players and very poor coaching. Any coach that watches Simmons throw up bricks and turn the ball over time after time after time and then states after the game that Simmons is a great player needs her head examined. And pushing the ball just to push results in turnovers. I like to push the ball too but only when it is advantageous to the offense to push. We sometimes push two on three defenders which is asinine. Geno runs a great screen game which is almost nonexistent at Tennessee.

 

[BruisedOrange]

Another piece of the turnover post-mortem: Screen play--we don't always set great screens, but we use them even worse(ly).

Our girls hesitate before most perimeter passes because experience has sadly taught them that, often as not, the defender was not successfully rubbed off on the designed screen. That's something that has to be established in practice, that screens will consistently be set where they're expected, so teammates can take the correct angle to utilize them effectively.

We frequently turn the ball over to (what looks like) an over-playing defense that "knows" where the pass is going. So we fans predictably complain about how "predictable" our half-court offense is. But everyone knows what everyone else's offense is running. It's just a matter of executing in the right place, on time, so all the offensive players can move at full speed and pass the ball confidently.

And of course, it's harder to establish that timing going deep into the bench with players playing multiple positions. Sometimes, getting the best athletes on the courts is not as effective as getting the best prepared athletes on the court. It's ironic, but IMHO our problem with perimeter turnovers is that our half-court O is not predictable enough--to our own players!

 

[Sandvol]

If Pat was still around and at the top of her game with all her faculties we'd still be making it to Final Fours and competing for championships. We don't really know how much Pat's dementia affected her the last few years or when exactly it started occurring. With Pat's mental abilities failing and then the program transitioning to Holly it is amazing it didn't slide more. We need to give Holly time but not forever. I feel by her 5th full season we should be seeing some substantial progress back into the elite.

 

[GameTime]

Holly has done a very good job, not real great, but real good.....She has made mistakes, but every coach does from time to time.....She will get better, hopefully.....Often times, Simmons was the only perimeter player, once Ariel was hurt, that didn't seem to wet her shorts at the thought of shooting the ball....It was almost comical watching our players get rid of the ball like it was something evil....Of course that is said with tongue in cheek, but many of our players suffered from the fear of success syndrome/ or let Simmons shoot it bug.

 

[Momto2]

I saw a short video clip of a UConn practice. It was almost brutal. But Genonsaid: "we don't practice until we get it right. We practice until we can't possible get it Wrong."

That is the answer to the low turn over rate and the high assist rate.

 

[GameTime]

I saw a short video clip of a UConn practice. It was almost brutal. But Genonsaid: "we don't practice until we get it right. We practice until we can't possible get it Wrong."

That is the answer to the low turn over rate and the high assist rate.

Send a copy to Holly, seriously. Perfect practice....U know the saying.

Geno may be a lot of things, but the man knows how to win.

 

[Tenacguy50]

Holly has done a very good job, not real great, but real good.....She has made mistakes, but every coach does from time to time.....She will get better, hopefully.....Often times, Simmons was the only perimeter player, once Ariel was hurt, that didn't seem to wet her shorts at the thought of shooting the ball....It was almost comical watching our players get rid of the ball like it was something evil....Of course that is said with tongue in cheek, but many of our players suffered from the fear of success syndrome/ or let Simmons shoot it bug.

Personally I'm glad Simmons is gone. Good girl I'm sure, but she never, in her 4 years here, saw a shot she didn't like. I suspect the LV will be a better "team" now that she is gone.

 

[Volletterman83]

I saw a short video clip of a UConn practice. It was almost brutal. But Genonsaid: "we don't practice until we get it right. We practice until we can't possible get it Wrong."

That is the answer to the low turn over rate and the high assist rate.

Pat did this ("we will do this as long as it takes to get it right") many years ago. Her practices were also tough. She brought in male practice players in the early 80's and we were instructed to go after it. She was also very focused on fundamentals, i.e. how to set picks/use picks; drop steps sealing the defender, creating passing lanes; teaching post players how to flash and create a broad base to establish position, etc. She was tireless and frequently; no repeatedly would stop practice and confront a player when they did not execute fundamentally. Not sure that is happening today.