Not for nothing. . .

#1

meekfan

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#1
Holly's quote, "If that's how they are going to call it, we have to adjust." is a little disconcerting. It is no secret about the rules changes this year. It should be no surprise that the zebras were going to call a much tighter game. Wouldn't you expect the team would be prepared for them - at least holding the foul calls to less than 20 :(

We just played MT - not UConn or Stanford or Duke for heavens sake. . .
 
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#2
#2
CHW probably didn't think they were going to call em that close,of course,i will need to see it on TV to know how there calling it
 
#3
#3
I guess the other coaches didn't get the message either. In Stanford's game with BC there were 54 fouls called. In Baylor's game with Grambling there were 53 fouls called. Notre Dame's game had 49 fouls called. I guess Tara, Kim and Muffet must be not get it either. Stupid coaches to let players foul like that. If you haven't watched any games this year you have no clue about what is going on. They are calling every little touch. They even called one on Carter in the first game where her hand was 2 inches off the player. You could see daylight between her hand and the player. This is past the point of trying to clean up the game. This is not sustainable in my opinion.
 
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#4
#4
I wonder if the networks could sue for fraud? They were sold a basketball game but ended up broadcasting a free throw shooting contest. No way will they be happy about being forced to eat up 30 more minutes of air time in each game consisting of nothing but free throws.

On the bright side. Megan is quick enough and a good enough free throw shooter that she should really be able to exploit this. She just has such a low basketball IQ and such poor instincts that I am sure she will come out on the losing end of the equation despite having all of the natural advantages. She never really played tight defense and that is the style the NCAA wants everyone to play now so she can revert to her natural inclination on that end of the court without really costing us anything.
 
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#5
#5
that's just mean Voluble2, especially after just 1 game into the season

i do agree with the network part
 
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#6
#6
reminds me of the way teams played defense in the Maravich years/ 60's.. except they didn't have a shot clock to force dumb shots....


bring back six girl ball. lol
 
#7
#7
I guess the other coaches didn't get the message either. In Stanford's game with BC there were 54 fouls called. In Baylor's game with Grambling there were 53 fouls called. Notre Dame's game had 49 fouls called. I guess Tara, Kim and Muffet must be not get it either. Stupid coaches to let players foul like that. If you haven't watched any games this year you have no clue about what is going on. They are calling every little touch. They even called one on Carter in the first game where her hand was 2 inches off the player. You could see daylight between her hand and the player. This is past the point of trying to clean up the game. This is not sustainable in my opinion.
Anyone can cherry pick their statistics to make their point. But it doing so, get the numbers right. There were 44 fouls in the Stanford game, not 54. You also over stated the numbers for the other 2 games you quoted.

Why not include UConn who, in their 3 games had
17, 9, 16 fouls while opponents had 24, 16, 16. Geno said they have been working hard to comply with the new rules and it shows. Others, including Tenn, didn't take the changes seriously.
 
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#8
#8
I wonder if the networks could sue for fraud? They were sold a basketball game but ended up broadcasting a free throw shooting contest. No way will they be happy about being forced to eat up 30 more minutes of air time in each game consisting of nothing but free throws.

On the bright side. Megan is quick enough and a good enough free throw shooter that she should really be able to exploit this. She just has such a low basketball IQ and such poor instincts that I am sure she will come out on the losing end of the equation despite having all of the natural advantages. She never really played tight defense and that is the style the NCAA wants everyone to play now so she can revert to her natural inclination on that end of the court without really costing us anything.
When teams learn not to do the things that are fouls, the numbers will go down, the scoring will go up, and the games will be more interesting than ever.

Agree that Simmons will benefit offensively. So will Russell. She's not strong enough to take the physical play that use to occur. The rest of the team will probably suffer. Tennessee was one of the biggest offenders in using the tactics that are no longer tolerated.
 
#9
#9
Part of the problem was the Tennessee offense versus Middle Tennessee. They were bound by the same fouling rules and we should try to make offensive plays that will get us to the foul line. The first game offensive ratings for each Lady Vol player:points per shot attempt. 0.99 or less F, 0.99 to 1.15 D, 1.16 to 1.30 C, 1.31 to 1.45 B, 1.46 to 1.60 A, over 1.60 A+

Simmons-0.82 F
Graves-2.00 A+
Harrison-1.86 A+
Massengale-1.33 B
Burdick-0.46 F
Carter-2.50 A++++
Jones-0.67 F
Russell-1.22 C
Reynolds-0.00 F
Moore-Did not play.


Defensive Grades Formula Rebounds plus blocks plus steals minus fouls minus turnovers.

Simmons-minus 4 F
Massengale-minus 1 F
Harrison-plus 2 D
Graves-Even D
Burdick-plus 6 B
Carter-plus 1 C
Russell-plus 8 B
Jones-minus 3 F
Reynolds-minus 3 F
Moore-Did Not Play.

Overall Team Offense 1.10 D
Team Defense plus 6 B

Team overall gets a grade of D on offense and a B on defense.
 
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#10
#10
Anyone can cherry pick their statistics to make their point. But it doing so, get the numbers right. There were 44 fouls in the Stanford game, not 54. You also over stated the numbers for the other 2 games you quoted.

Why not include UConn who, in their 3 games had
17, 9, 16 fouls while opponents had 24, 16, 16. Geno said they have been working hard to comply with the new rules and it shows. Others, including Tenn, didn't take the changes seriously.
I think you need to learn what the term cherry picking means. I quoted 3 examples of top teams that I looked at, 4 if you include the Lady Vols and you pick one teams stats. So who is doing the cherry picking. I do thank you for pointing out my "number of fouls" errors. I misspoke. I quoted the number of free throws attempted for each game. I apologize for my error and hope I didn't mislead anyone. Here are the foul totals for those games. Stanford game - 44 fouls, Baylor game - 49 fouls, ND game 44 fouls, and I'll include your beloved UCONN game - 26 fouls. Even if you include wonder boys game stats the average number of fouls called in those 4 games is 41. Do those figures make anyone feel better? They don't make me feel better.
 
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#11
#11
I think you need to learn what the term cherry picking means. I quoted 3 examples of top teams that I looked at, 4 if you include the Lady Vols and you pick one teams stats. So who is doing the cherry picking. I do thank you for pointing out my "number of fouls" errors. I misspoke. I quoted the number of free throws attempted for each game. I apologize for my error and hope I didn't mislead anyone. Here are the foul totals for those games. Stanford game - 44 fouls, Baylor game - 49 fouls, ND game 44 fouls, and I'll include your beloved UCONN game - 26 fouls. Even if you include wonder boys game stats the average number of fouls called in those 4 games is 41. Do those figures make anyone feel better? They don't make me feel better.
I added UConn because you mentioned "top teams" in your example, but didn't include the top team. I thought you did that because it didn't support the point you were trying to make.

But in general, you made an honest mistake and you did make your point - in general lots of fouls.

I do think it's too early to panic. Let's see how it goes. All the coaches want the changes and perhaps they'll be good once the teams adjust.
 
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#12
#12
All the coaches want the changes and perhaps they'll be good once the teams adjust.

I don't think that is the case at all. I think they wanted the game cleaned up so the super geniuses in the NCAA decided that meant touch fouls rather than competent officiating and cleaning up the hard fouls in the paint. I don't think any of them are happy with what has been done to the officiating. Not that they are even allowed to criticize it openly.

Watching the UConn game, it was called completely differently than the others I have seen. This sort of inconsistency is really going to hurt the credibility of the game and the announcers tonight were talking about how no one would want to watch a game officiated in this manner. The subtle hints are already being sent.
 
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#13
#13
I don't think that is the case at all. I think they wanted the game cleaned up so the super geniuses in the NCAA decided that meant touch fouls rather than competent officiating and cleaning up the hard fouls in the paint. I don't think any of them are happy with what has been done to the officiating. Not that they are even allowed to criticize it openly.

Watching the UConn game, it was called completely differently than the others I have seen. This sort of inconsistency is really going to hurt the credibility of the game and the announcers tonight were talking about how no one would want to watch a game officiated in this manner. The subtle hints are already being sent.

I didn't see the Middle game but this one tonight was pathetic with all the fouls. It was hard to get in the flow and it seems to me flies in the face of players executing what used to be defensive fundamentals.
 
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#14
#14
there's rules and then there's Geno rules

some thing in there is not like the other
 
#15
#15
The big center for U Con should have been T'd up last night for screaming foul language at the ref. Then one of her teammates did the same thing a minute later.

Geno rule?
 
#16
#16
I guess the other coaches didn't get the message either. In Stanford's game with BC there were 54 fouls called. In Baylor's game with Grambling there were 53 fouls called. Notre Dame's game had 49 fouls called. I guess Tara, Kim and Muffet must be not get it either. Stupid coaches to let players foul like that. If you haven't watched any games this year you have no clue about what is going on. They are calling every little touch. They even called one on Carter in the first game where her hand was 2 inches off the player. You could see daylight between her hand and the player. This is past the point of trying to clean up the game. This is not sustainable in my opinion.

Perhaps I didn't make my point very clear initially. In the MT game we had 33 fouls called on us - that's a lot of fouls called... I might expect that from a 'less than top tier' team but not from the Vols. It was Holly's comment that really unnerved me - how could she not expect they were going to call all these ticky tack fouls. I watched the UConn rout of Stamford last night and thought there were a lot of fouls called there BUT Genoiuos and Tara apparently have partially figured it out.
 
#17
#17
Conn is great team and good coach. but the attitude including cussing to help intimidate is a negative reflection of the coach.

And they attract the types of players who come with that attitude. Swagger? or something else.
 
#18
#18
Perhaps I didn't make my point very clear initially. In the MT game we had 33 fouls called on us - that's a lot of fouls called... I might expect that from a 'less than top tier' team but not from the Vols. It was Holly's comment that really unnerved me - how could she not expect they were going to call all these ticky tack fouls. I watched the UConn rout of Stamford last night and thought there were a lot of fouls called there BUT Genoiuos and Tara apparently have partially figured it out.
Go back and look at the numbers. A lot of "Top Tier Teams" are having trouble. It's not just Tenn.
Here is an update on the fouls called in last nights games.
UCONN game- 40 fouls I wouldn't say they have it figured out either.
Louisville game - 57 fouls
Notre Dame game - 23 fouls Big Improvement here
Tex AM game - 35 fouls
Nebraska game - 31 fouls
Tenn game - 51 fouls

The number of fouls seem to be coming down some by certain teams. I wonder if they are playing differently or are the games being called differently. I watched both the UCONN game and the TENN game last night. Lots of ticky tack stuff being called but I still saw some players getting thrashed a couple of times with no calls. The fact is we need better officials.
 
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#19
#19
As much as we all hate the foul calling, it could benefit TN if you believe, as I do, that they have more depth than most other teams. If you put our bottom 5 players versus UCONN, Stanford, or Duke's bottom 5, I gotta put my money on TN. Basically, how would Mercedes and Nia at the post fare with Carter, Jones, and Reynolds on the perimeter? Against other team's 6-10 - no Ogwumike, Mosqueda-Lewis, Stewart, Sims, Williams, and the like? I'd say we'd do damn well.

The only big BUT is that we have 10 players versus other teams that have between 11-13 players.
 
#20
#20
interesting observation. we will see however the evolution of foul calling over the year. Remembering how the LVs lost last year to Missouri who had non-athletic players and good passing, such teams like that will benefit from such foul calling.
 
#21
#21
It's a two way street, though. If they can't foul you either, the more athletic team and/or team with the most depth should prevail. This assumes the calls are consistent. If one team CAN foul and the other CAN'T, then obviously the one who CAN has the advantage.
 
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#23
#23
As much as we all hate the foul calling, it could benefit TN if you believe, as I do, that they have more depth than most other teams. If you put our bottom 5 players versus UCONN, Stanford, or Duke's bottom 5, I gotta put my money on TN. Basically, how would Mercedes and Nia at the post fare with Carter, Jones, and Reynolds on the perimeter? Against other team's 6-10 - no Ogwumike, Mosqueda-Lewis, Stewart, Sims, Williams, and the like? I'd say we'd do damn well.

The only big BUT is that we have 10 players versus other teams that have between 11-13 players.
What makes you think the LV bench is better than the other teams you mentioned? Certainly not better than uconn's. The bench played the 2nd half of the Stanford game and they increased the lead.

Besides, as teams get use to the new rules, they will foul less. Players do what they can get away with. If they can't get away with something, they won't do it. We need to give it time. In the end it might make for a better ball game.
 
#24
#24
So, who do I think would win between UCONN's 6-10

Morgan Tuck, Kiah Stokes, Saniya Chong, Tierney Lawlor, Brianna Banks

versus UT's 6-10?

Jasmine Jones, Mercedes Russell, Jordan Reynolds, Andraya Carter, Nia Moore

UT by 20 plus IMO. You disagree? UCONN rarely goes to its bench to begin with. That's kinda the point I'm making. UT has had a deep bench year in and year out partly out of necessity and partly because of talent and parity. I favor our bench over any in the country.
 
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#25
#25
Part of the problem was the Tennessee offense versus Middle Tennessee. They were bound by the same fouling rules and we should try to make offensive plays that will get us to the foul line. The first game offensive ratings for each Lady Vol player:points per shot attempt. 0.99 or less F, 0.99 to 1.15 D, 1.16 to 1.30 C, 1.31 to 1.45 B, 1.46 to 1.60 A, over 1.60 A+

Simmons-0.82 F
Graves-2.00 A+
Harrison-1.86 A+
Massengale-1.33 B
Burdick-0.46 F
Carter-2.50 A++++
Jones-0.67 F
Russell-1.22 C
Reynolds-0.00 F
Moore-Did not play.


Defensive Grades Formula Rebounds plus blocks plus steals minus fouls minus turnovers.

Simmons-minus 4 F
Massengale-minus 1 F
Harrison-plus 2 D
Graves-Even D
Burdick-plus 6 B
Carter-plus 1 C
Russell-plus 8 B
Jones-minus 3 F
Reynolds-minus 3 F
Moore-Did Not Play.

Overall Team Offense 1.10 D
Team Defense plus 6 B

Team overall gets a grade of D on offense and a B on defense.
Nice work Volfan. This would be interesting on a cumulative basis as the year progresses.
 

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