A11 offense

#1
LittleDTO

LittleDTO

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#1
Does anyone know if this is banned by the TSSAA? I would like to help a friend of mine develop this at the middle school he coaches.
 
#5
#5
If Tennessee uses NFHS rules, which it does, it is not illegal. Don't expect it in college, under NCAA rules the A-11 offense wouldn't be authorized.
 
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#8
#8
Ehh, I post on a board full of coaches, and the guy who invented the darn thing posts on there too. He's not exactly the most well liked guy on there, and most coaches think his offense is a gimmick, as do I.
 
#9
#9
Interesting quote,

"It was unethical for them to use a loophole in the rules to run this offense," said Mike Webb, the supervisor of football officials for the West Virginia Secondary Schools Activities Commission who is on the NFHS football rules committee. "This takes away the deception."

Actually, they used the rule to increase deception. I do have a question for Mr. Webb, "If you found a loophole in the rules that you used to your advantage, would it be unethical?" It would have been more honest to say, "We don't like A-11, so we are changing the rules to make it illegal."
 
#10
#10
oldsarge said:
Interesting quote,

"It was unethical for them to use a loophole in the rules to run this offense," said Mike Webb, the supervisor of football officials for the West Virginia Secondary Schools Activities Commission who is on the NFHS football rules committee. "This takes away the deception."

Actually, they used the rule to increase deception. I do have a question for Mr. Webb, "If you found a loophole in the rules that you used to your advantage, would it be unethical?" It would have been more honest to say, "We don't like A-11, so we are changing the rules to make it illegal."
Click to expand...

The issue I have with the offense is that it bends the rules to an almost breaking extent. Having 7 or 8 eligible receivers with only 5-7 DB's max is most certainly, questionable to say the least.
 
#11
#11
nickknx865 said:
The issue I have with the offense is that it bends the rules to an almost breaking extent. Having 7 or 8 eligible receivers with only 5-7 DB's max is most certainly, questionable to say the least.
Click to expand...

There is no possible was to have 7 or 8 eligible receivers. Even with the A11 there MUST be 7 on the line of scrimmage at the snap. Of these 7, only 2 will be eligible receivers.

With the A11, the team is "loop holing" the numbering system. With a normal offense, you must have 5 linemen numbered 50-79. The way around this is having the QB line up 7 yards deep. Being 7 yards deep constitutes the play as a scrimmage kick formation, or punt. In scrimmage kick formation, the numbering rules are ignored.
 
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#12
#12
footballref said:
There is no possible was to have 7 or 8 eligible receivers. Even with the A11 there MUST be 7 on the line of scrimmage at the snap. Of these 7, only 2 will be eligible receivers.
Click to expand...

Wrong

From Wikipedia
The scheme offers the appearance of having all 11 players in the field eligible to catch the ball, and any six of the eleven players can interchangeably become eligible on any given play. The offense has sparked great debate within the football coaching community.
Click to expand...

And, a diagrammed version of the A-11
A-11.png
 
#14
#14
dickens821 said:
the A11 is terrible and there is no reason anyone should use it.
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I believe the reason Kurt Bryan first invented it, was because he had an extremely small team, or something to that effect. Anyways, Piedmont HS was 6-1 this year, and 7-4 the year before, so it does work, to a small extent. However, they failed to win the district both years, so it's not the end all of football.
 
#15
#15
nickknx865 said:
Wrong

From Wikipedia


And, a diagrammed version of the A-11
A-11.png
Click to expand...

It is impossible to have 7 or 8 eligible receivers....you MUST have 7 on the line of scrimmage. Of these 7 ONLY the widest guy on each side of the line at the snap is eligible. The others are covered up and ineligible receivers.

Also from your source, Wickipedia:
Only players in the backfield or the ends on the line are eligible to catch a forward pass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_receiver

With that said, you must have 7 players on the line of scrimmage. 5 of these 7 are ineligible to catch a forward pass.
 
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#16
#16
footballref said:
It is impossible to have 7 or 8 at the snap....you MUST have 7 on the line of scrimmage. Of these 7 ONLY the widest guy on each side of the line at the snap in eligible. The others are covered up and ineligible receivers.
Click to expand...

Every guy is eligible to go out for a pass, however, there can only be 6 men that do so. The offense takes advantage of a loophole in the punting rules.
 
#17
#17
nickknx865 said:
Every guy is eligible to go out for a pass, however, there can only be 6 men that do so. The offense takes advantage of a loophole in the punting rules.
Click to expand...

Every guy is not eligible to go out for a pass. What you are saying is that every guy is eligible by number. At the snap, 5 players are not eligible.

With the A11 they can shift and not worry about being ineligible by number.

The A11 takes advantage of the exception to the numbering rule (5 linemen numbered 50-79) when a team is in scrimmage kick (punt formation). The 5 guys typically numbered 50-79 are ineligible by number.
 
#18
#18
yeah, thats right only the 2 end men and the players in the backfield are eligible to go down field. There is also a shift exception in the scrimmage kick formation that does not allow ineligible players to become eligible after a shift.

But the new rule says that it must be a obvious kicking down for the formation to be considered a scrimmage kick formation.

BTW.... long, long, long time reader first time poster.
 
#21
#21
Dawson said:
There is a HUGE reason to use it if my friends team doesnt have the athletes the other schools have.
Click to expand...

Then Wing-T it....I still lmao every time I see the part of the offensives rules about deceiving the defense. That's, exactly, what the Wing-T is based on.

A-11 (was) just a silly gimmick.
 
#22
#22
He basically has 3 athletes every year. One is the QB, one is a WR, and one is a RB. Creating space for these 3 would be great. Im not sure that if he did use it, it would be all the time. Just a few plays that could open up the field.
 
#23
#23
I have designed one of the goofiest offenses anyone would ever see (if I can actually implement it somewhere this year), yet I think the A-11 was an abomination.

Rule changes are made to preserve the essence of the game. Basketball has a shot clock so teams can't get a small lead and then sit on it for three quarters. They also have lane violations so no one with vastly superior size can just stand under the basket and dominate, and there's goaltending on the other end.

Forget "deception". I don't know that I consider myself an expert in the option, but it's easily my strong suit. The idea of taking a single loophole in the rulebook, exploiting it to base an entire offense around, and then complaining about the loophole being closed is both pathetic and laughable.
 
#24
#24
Ohio Vol said:
I have designed one of the goofiest offenses anyone would ever see (if I can actually implement it somewhere this year), yet I think the A-11 was an abomination.

Rule changes are made to preserve the essence of the game. Basketball has a shot clock so teams can't get a small lead and then sit on it for three quarters. They also have lane violations so no one with vastly superior size can just stand under the basket and dominate, and there's goaltending on the other end.

Forget "deception". I don't know that I consider myself an expert in the option, but it's easily my strong suit. The idea of taking a single loophole in the rulebook, exploiting it to base an entire offense around, and then complaining about the loophole being closed is both pathetic and laughable.
Click to expand...

So, did you ever face anyone who used the A-11?

Well, I actually feel bad for all those coaches who shelled out the $200 for the A-11 manual. At least Bryan made money off of that.
 
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