Erin Andrews, Women and Sports

#1

MikeHamiltonFan

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#1
It has been interesting to watch as media like Deadspin that are not prone to introspection or repentance have flogged themselves over their participation in the Erin Andrews crime.

Erin Andrews for those who do not know is a girl who was born in Maine, who grew up with a dad who was a reporter. After graduating from UF where she served on the dance team, she worked for Turner Sports covering the Braves and other small broadcasts until she started working for ESPN. Erin has lived in Atlanta for much of her career and she loves SEC football. Erin also was the victim of a crime. Various reports speculate that she was videotaped secretly while getting ready in her hotel room by an ESPN cameraman, or by a person who worked in the hotel where she was staying. The bottom line is that Erin has never so much as posed for a swimsuit calendar, and now she is forced to hire lawyers to try to remove a 5 minute video of her naked from the internet.

What does this have to do with sports and what does it have to do with the Vols? If you remember there was a minor scandal when other schools fans claimed that Bruce Pearl assaulted Andrews during the halftime of the Tennessee Memphis basketball game. She asked him something to the effect of "how are they stopping your offense" and he replied by saying "they are grabbing us" and he kind of bear hugged her for less than a second. It was not a big deal, but you felt pretty sure that Bruce would not have demonstrated in the same manner on Lee Corso.

Later Erin Andrews had another incident where she was covering the USC game on the sidelines last season and their all conference safety Rey Maualuga did a suggestive dance from behind her for which he later apologized.

She also gave Pat White a kiss on his cheek and a hug while working covering WVU and that was a minor story.

Andrews will return to work for ESPN this fall and will certainly be present when Kiffin faces Meyer in Gainesville.

Now to my thoughts about this. This crime and its coverage come at a time when I have my first child, a little girl. For years as a single guy I heard people say "what if that was your daughter" and I thought in most cases, "that could never be my daughter." When someone like Britney Spears, or Paris Hilton is dismissed or treated in a sexist manner, you know that in large measure they are a product of the system they exploited. Britney Spears is and has been from her post Mickey Mouse club start, a kind of high class prostitute like Madonna. She sells herself as a sex object and many Americans are happy to bid. This is not an opening to moralize about America and modesty etc. rather I am saying that Britney Spears is nothing like my daughter and when people lust after her, it is something she invites and is getting paid for (her dad and Joe Simpson are amongst the people I despise most, pimping their daughters).

Erin Andrews is nothing like Britney Spears. I could see my daughter growing up to be like her. She does not dress suggestively, she does not sell calendars, she is just a woman who loves sports and who thought it would be a great job to cover sports. One of the reasons this crime has promoted such an outcry is because of the atmosphere created by the coverage and by the comments on her work especially in the media, especially amongst people who love college football. The nerd in many of us who watched college sports was extremely attracted to a reporter who wore tasteful sweaters in various SEC colors and who asked good questions, but who was still good looking. When men who go to church, who are fathers, husbands, brothers etc to women they would never tolerate disrespect towards are on the internet sometimes they say extremely disrespectful things. That type of snark is something many have engaged in, and it caused the most sorrow after this happened. I heard it described like laughing at the fat guy eating alot but feeling horrible when he dies of a heart attack. Erin is not like the fat guy, she did nothing wrong, but the lighthearted lustful joking was like the fat guy, and a pervert secretly taping her nude is like a fatal heart attack, it exposes the whole for the gross nature of leering at someone who is not trying to turn you on.
Part of the question we have to ask is regarding the type of affirmative action that occurs with pretty women in sports. Can you imagine a sideline reporter with acne? What about one who weighed 240? Because we all know that a large part of the reason beautiful women are on the sidelines is because they are more attractive for us to watch, for players to interact with etc, we think it is appropriate for there to be a little acknowledgment of that from time to time. We consider it good natured fun when people make posts linking to Erin Andrews eating a hotdog. If it was a tape of her doing the act people are joking about in the above post, many of those who laughed about the hotdog would feel shame and guilt and would not look at it at all.
The Erin Andrews affair tells lots of us that we should do better. We should not joke in ways that degrade innocence. We can call a whore a whore but we should not project lust and evil on someone who is innocent. Beautiful women are one of the great gifts God has given the world, and in the South, and at football schools, you can see lots of beauty on display. It is fine to respect and admire that without being trashy or dirty. Whether it is signature pictures of models put up by old men who are lonely, or comments about how someone has a busted nose by guys who are fat and have enough back hair to knit a sweater, our sports boards do not need it. "Hottest vol basketball player" can quickly devolve in a horrible direction and for the many of us with wives and daughters we should be saying no. I appreciate that the problem I described above while a huge problem on many Vol sport sites paid and free, does not seem to plague Vol nation. The comment however will apply in that most people on this site are on the others as well from time to time and know just what I am talking about.
I love TN football, I love TN basketball, I love the SEC and I plan on taking my family, wife and daughter to games. I have already experienced enough leering at my wife (who was dressed modestly) to bring the redneck out in me, but I avoided fighting and headed to the seats. The culture has gotten worse and more blatant in its lust and its lechery and I hope TN athletic events will be places where I can take my family without worrying about it.
If those of us who profess to care about the golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" can live it out in a meaningful way, I think the wholesome fun of being at a game and cheering for your team or having a nice tailgate will be a delight I look forward to, instead of an opportunity to feel sick at the hoots and whistles directed towards women who are not strippers or prostitutes but students and daughters and fellow fans.
 
#2
#2
I have two young daughters and it certainly does change your perspective on how people treat women.
 
#3
#3
A thoughtful piece, but I think you are missing the point. Separate out exploitation of sex appeal versus commission of a crime and invasion of privacy.

To say that Erin Andrews' career is not based on sex appeal AT ALL is just plain wrong. She absolutely has taken advantage of her beauty to some degree. Certainly not as much as Britney Spears relies on sex appeal. But at least some.

This is versus the point that someone video'd her without her consent and its all over the place, which is a crime and an invasion of her privacy. People exploiting the product of that -- the tape -- is just plain wrong.

But let's not pretend that Erin Andrews' success has not to some degree or another been a product of her taking advantage of her attractiveness.
 
#4
#4
A thoughtful piece, but I think you are missing the point. Separate out exploitation of sex appeal versus commission of a crime and invasion of privacy.

To say that Erin Andrews' career is not based on sex appeal AT ALL is just plain wrong. She absolutely has taken advantage of her beauty to some degree. Certainly not as much as Britney Spears relies on sex appeal. But at least some.

This is versus the point that someone video'd her without her consent and its all over the place, which is a crime and an invasion of her privacy. People exploiting the product of that -- the tape -- is just plain wrong.

But let's not pretend that Erin Andrews' success has not to some degree or another been a product of her taking advantage of her attractiveness.

Law,
I addressed that in saying that there is a type of affirmative action present in sports reporting. It is a difference though between sex appeal and attractiveness. Being pretty and in good shape is not the same thing as wearing fishnet stockings. Ali Landry in the Doritos commercial is exploiting sex appeal, Danica Patrick in her calendars etc is also. Erin Andrews could not do anything differently. When she started her career people suggested she get a nose job, but she refused. She worked her way up from working as a glorified intern with the Tampa last place hockey team to ESPN sideline reporter by doing lots of research and learning a ton about every sport she covered.

Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas both discussed absolutely hating affirmative action because it made people question their ability. People would say, "There is no way he gets into the Ivy League if he was white" etc. Looking at some of the VERY unattractive sports women on ESPN, I do not think that Andrews got her job because of her looks. I think her looks made her a star. I do not know if that is clear. Basically the audience responded. Prior to any nude video scandal, Erin Andrews still brought tons of web traffic and guys at deadspin.com and lots of other web sites knew that.

Layla Kiffin is a busy mom right now. She also is a very beautiful woman. She also grew up around football so much that I am quite certain that her understanding of both the college and pro game is better than most women in America, better even than most women who want to work in sports journalism. If she became a commentator, I can guarantee that she would be criticized as only having her job because she is so good looking or because of her family.

TV journalists are all kidding themselves if they think that looks and their backgrounds do not matter. If not for the fake ebonics, Stuart Scott never gets famous. All of the anchors on ESPN male and female cake on the makeup. None of the famous commentators are fat. Think about how many fat people we have in America? But Rick Majerus is pretty much it on TV.

Because someone is attractive and because they want to be on television does not mean that they are putting themselves out there as fair game for sexual comments. The invasion of her privacy is what should make the previous comments about her eating a hot dog or the sweater she is wearing etc seem as inappropriate as they were.
 
#6
#6
We should not joke in ways that degrade innocence. We can call a whore a whore but we should not project lust and evil on someone who is innocent.

But this is just the old Madonna-whore complex all over again. Women are either "good girls" to be idealized, or they're worthless sluts who can be treated like garbage. It doesn't leave a lot of room in the middle for the normal, healthy sexuality of most women. I don't think anybody knows much about the personal life of Erin Andrews, but she's a 30ish single woman who went to a public university, lives in Atlanta, and hangs around jocks for a living. She's not "innocent."

What happened to Erin Andres was vile. And she doesn't need to be turned into some kind of a pristine Sunday school teacher-type in order to make it so.
 
#8
#8
But this is just the old Madonna-whore complex all over again. Women are either "good girls" to be idealized, or they're worthless sluts who can be treated like garbage. It doesn't leave a lot of room in the middle for the normal, healthy sexuality of most women. I don't think anybody knows much about the personal life of Erin Andrews, but she's a 30ish single woman who went to a public university, lives in Atlanta, and hangs around jocks for a living. She's not "innocent."

What happened to Erin Andres was vile. And she doesn't need to be turned into some kind of a pristine Sunday school teacher-type in order to make it so.

Okay I mainly wanted to respond because I have to ask if you have seen the movie "Druids". As someone who loves history and loves the time period when the Gauls fought the Romans, I thought I would enjoy it. It was probably the worst movie I have ever seen. Acting, cinematography, writing, direction...

Look at innocence versus whore on a continuum from one side to the other, and Erin Andrews has to fall on "innocent." Someone in the spotlight like that who has never even had mild pictures show up that were taken from her facebook or sent by an angry ex boyfriend to TMZ? Come on! Many of the girls today who fall into the middle which you describe as healthy do not think of themselves as being slutty because they have had sex with less than 20 guys etc. Newsflash to them, they are slutty. I picked up a girl for a date at UT when I was in school and refused to leave with her because she was wearing a leather mini skirt, fishnets and a somewhat see through top. She wanted to go to Fiction and dance and then back to her place, and yes I should have known better than to ask someone out just based on looks, but YUCK.

Erin Andrews seems to protect her sexuality from all onlookers by being modest and demure. Another example like this is Elizabeth Hasselbeck. Good looking women realize the power they have over men and often end up acting trashy as they exert it. The classiest never need to, they use their intellect and then act surprised when guys treat them differently because of their beauty. On a 1 to 10 for a skank meter from a Mother Theresa to a Lindsey Lohan, Andrews is much closer to a 1 or 2 than anything else. Carrie Prejean the darling for some reason of lots of so called conservatives is much closer to a 10 than a 1 even if she didnt want the photographer to publish the topless shots she posed for.

I submit that men do know what to do with healthy sexuality. As Usher (who has his own problems with tapes and being a perv) sings, men want "a lady in the streets and a freak in the bed" There is nothing better than being married to someone gorgeous whose beauty when naked is something that only you share with her. It is much more special than poor Hank Baskett who married a girl who has been with Hugh Hefner and who anyone can see naked now.
 
#9
#9
The Erin Andrews affair tells lots of us that we should do better. We should not joke in ways that degrade innocence. We can call a whore a whore but we should not project lust and evil on someone who is innocent.

[/SOAPBOX]

...I'm sorry, but no matter how thoughtful this entire post was, it's just looking down from your high horse. So people can't want Erin Andrews because she's a good girl? Seriously?

I understand that you have a daughter and you fear for her, and for that I commend you.
But your family has exactly 0% to do with all of this.
 
#10
#10
Okay I mainly wanted to respond because I have to ask if you have seen the movie "Druids". As someone who loves history and loves the time period when the Gauls fought the Romans, I thought I would enjoy it. It was probably the worst movie I have ever seen. Acting, cinematography, writing, direction...

Look at innocence versus whore on a continuum from one side to the other, and Erin Andrews has to fall on "innocent." Someone in the spotlight like that who has never even had mild pictures show up that were taken from her facebook or sent by an angry ex boyfriend to TMZ? Come on! Many of the girls today who fall into the middle which you describe as healthy do not think of themselves as being slutty because they have had sex with less than 20 guys etc. Newsflash to them, they are slutty. I picked up a girl for a date at UT when I was in school and refused to leave with her because she was wearing a leather mini skirt, fishnets and a somewhat see through top. She wanted to go to Fiction and dance and then back to her place, and yes I should have known better than to ask someone out just based on looks, but YUCK.

I have not seen "Druids." I have two young kids; I don't really get to see movies anymore.

I hate to tell you this, but women get to have sex too. Your average 30-year-old professional woman in 2009 has been sexually active since high school. She probably had a few boyfriends in college, as well as a few hookups too. After college, she's had maybe one boyfriend a year. If you're counting numbers obsessively, then yeah, by the time she's 30 it wouldn't be unusual for her to have been with about 20 guys. This is how the vast majority of normal women behave in the modern world. And it's not just slutty college girls who are screwing around; the highest rates of teen pregnancy in the country are across the Bible Belt. Everybody's doing it. You are holding women to a standard of behavior that is practically extinct.

The reason your argument disturbs me is that it seems to imply that what happened to Andrews was wrong mostly because you think she's "innocent" -- and that therefore, presumably, if she'd posed for Maxim or been known to have a few boyfriends, it wouldn't be as big a deal. Which is just wrong, IMO -- Andrews doesn't have to be pristine to have been violated.
 
#12
#12
Law,
I addressed that in saying that there is a type of affirmative action present in sports reporting. It is a difference though between sex appeal and attractiveness. Being pretty and in good shape is not the same thing as wearing fishnet stockings. Ali Landry in the Doritos commercial is exploiting sex appeal, Danica Patrick in her calendars etc is also. Erin Andrews could not do anything differently. When she started her career people suggested she get a nose job, but she refused. She worked her way up from working as a glorified intern with the Tampa last place hockey team to ESPN sideline reporter by doing lots of research and learning a ton about every sport she covered.

Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas both discussed absolutely hating affirmative action because it made people question their ability. People would say, "There is no way he gets into the Ivy League if he was white" etc. Looking at some of the VERY unattractive sports women on ESPN, I do not think that Andrews got her job because of her looks. I think her looks made her a star. I do not know if that is clear. Basically the audience responded. Prior to any nude video scandal, Erin Andrews still brought tons of web traffic and guys at deadspin.com and lots of other web sites knew that.

Layla Kiffin is a busy mom right now. She also is a very beautiful woman. She also grew up around football so much that I am quite certain that her understanding of both the college and pro game is better than most women in America, better even than most women who want to work in sports journalism. If she became a commentator, I can guarantee that she would be criticized as only having her job because she is so good looking or because of her family.

TV journalists are all kidding themselves if they think that looks and their backgrounds do not matter. If not for the fake ebonics, Stuart Scott never gets famous. All of the anchors on ESPN male and female cake on the makeup. None of the famous commentators are fat. Think about how many fat people we have in America? But Rick Majerus is pretty much it on TV.

Because someone is attractive and because they want to be on television does not mean that they are putting themselves out there as fair game for sexual comments. The invasion of her privacy is what should make the previous comments about her eating a hot dog or the sweater she is wearing etc seem as inappropriate as they were.



I guess I don't see as much of a difference as you do between what Danica Patrick might do for a calendar versus what Erin Andrews does on ESPN on the sidelines of a game. You seem to concede that some significant portion of Andrews' success is due to the fact that she is attractive. She might not be as in-your-face about it as Patrick or others, but in the big picture I don't see as much of a difference between the two, and I don't see Andrews on tv reporting only by audio, know what I mean?

Now, I agree that she does not "deserve" to be photographed nude and have that all over the internet. She did not invite that by her conduct.

But at the same time, I do not think she should be all that surprised by it and I don't think people should be so self-righteous as to say that Andrews was not a sex object prior to this. She was. She got paid a bunch for it. So let's not pretend that she suddenly went from matriarch-type to sex kitten.
 
#14
#14
A) She's as sport savvy and smart as anyone at ESPN. I think her looks have nothing to do with where she's at, just with how many people know her and oggle her.

B) However, she should probably be a little more vigilant(a little less naive) about her privacy, especially away from her own home. This could have been easily avoided with a bra and panties, and that's not to say that taping her was the right thing to do and it serves her right for walking around naked, but it wouldn't hurt her to be more careful.
 
#15
#15
I guess I don't see as much of a difference as you do between what Danica Patrick might do for a calendar versus what Erin Andrews does on ESPN on the sidelines of a game. You seem to concede that some significant portion of Andrews' success is due to the fact that she is attractive. She might not be as in-your-face about it as Patrick or others, but in the big picture I don't see as much of a difference between the two, and I don't see Andrews on tv reporting only by audio, know what I mean?

Before this season, I would have definitely said there was a difference, because Danica definitely used it to get where she was, because if she hadn't she would probably be that girl that went to Europe to race and failed miserably, as she wouldn't have gotten past Atlantics, whereas Andrews is no worse than most the people, men or women, in her field.
 
#16
#16
A) She's as sport savvy and smart as anyone at ESPN. I think her looks have nothing to do with where she's at, just with how many people know her and oggle her.

B) However, she should probably be a little more vigilant(a little less naive) about her privacy, especially away from her own home. This could have been easily avoided with a bra and panties, and that's not to say that taping her was the right thing to do and it serves her right for walking around naked, but it wouldn't hurt her to be more careful.

She should probably shower in a swimsuit, too. You know, because you never know who's spying on you.

I really don't see how it's "naive" of somebody to not expect to be watched in a hotel room with a locked door and drawn curtains. The only way to be more vigilant is to literally never be naked.
 
#17
#17
at least we don't have to worry about this happening to dana jacobson. sorry, i just could not help myself.
 
#20
#20
She looked amazing in that video, she should go around naked all the time.

The nude stills dont do it justice, you got to see the video. All I can say is wow.
 
#21
#21
B) However, she should probably be a little more vigilant(a little less naive) about her privacy, especially away from her own home. This could have been easily avoided with a bra and panties, and that's not to say that taping her was the right thing to do and it serves her right for walking around naked, but it wouldn't hurt her to be more careful.

:fool::fool::fool:
 
#23
#23
You read that completely out of context.
Then I must be completely misunderstanding your post. It read as if you think that she might share some culpability even though she was in the privacy of a locked hotel room.
 

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