Golf Channel:Tiger out for '08

[allvol123]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

I don't care if people apply a catch-all term like "athlete" to golfers, although as I said, if you do that, then you're basically saying that anybody who plays a game is an athlete. What I objected to was the IMO laughable assertion that Tiger is "the greatest athlete in the world" because he dominates a sport can be played very, very well by guys who look like they have doughnuts and chocolate milk for breakfast every morning. It sure seems to me like the greatest athlete in the world ought to have to break a sweat once in awhile.

Who would you suggest as the greatest athlete in the world?

[Fine Vol]

One must define athlete to decide who is and is not an athlete.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by allvol123

Who would you suggest as the greatest athlete in the world?

I don't have a quick answer, but here's how I'd go about answering the question. Say your life depends on the outcome of an athletic contest, but you don't know what sport it's going to be. Therefore you need someone who excels at everything -- strength, speed, quickness, hand-eye coordination. Whom do you pick?

I don't know -- Julius Peppers, maybe? Dwight Howard?

(The traditional answer is the current world champion in the decathlon, and that's probably a good place to start, but that's no fun since nobody knows who that is.)

[orange+white=heaven]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

I don't have a quick answer, but here's how I'd go about answering the question. Say your life depends on the outcome of an athletic contest, but you don't know what sport it's going to be. Therefore you need someone who excels at everything -- strength, speed, quickness, hand-eye coordination. Whom do you pick?

I don't know -- Julius Peppers, maybe? Dwight Howard?

(The traditional answer is the current world champion in the decathlon, and that's probably a good place to start, but that's no fun since nobody knows who that is.)

Jesse Owens.

Alive you say?..

[orange+white=heaven]

You know BPV nailed this debate before he ever started..

This just results in an internet slap fight over something we're unlikely to agree upon.

Still, for my money Tiger is the best professional athlete there is right now.

[superdave1984]

Originally Posted by BigPapaVol

I don't like Mickelson, but that's an absurd comment.

The guy is massively talented and, like Tiger, when he reins in his driver, can win anywhere. US Opens at Pinehurst suit his game well, Augusta suits his game, St. Andrews should work well for him. Just doesn't make sense to count out a guy with the length he has and otherworldly short game.

I like Phil. I like his gambling style. And yeah he is known for distance off the tee and his play around the green. However, it was that "otherworldly short game" that cost him a chance at Torrey Pines. How many times did he pitch it up and have it roll back down the hill on that hole?

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by orange+white=heaven

Jesse Owens.

Alive you say?..

Yeah, so no Jim Thorpe either. Too bad. Bo Jackson, before he broke.

"Athlete" is such a deliberately general term that I think you can't really call someone a Great Athlete unless he can (or at least potentially could) do a lot of things well. A generalist, not a specialist. Take Lance Armstrong, for example. Winning seven Tours de France in a row is an order of magnitude beyond anything Tiger's done, and yet cycling is way too specialized to really consider Armstrong to be one of the greatest athletes ever.

[BigPapaVol]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

There was a soccer thread awhile back in which you said that you weren't really interested in the sport because there wasn't enough athleticism in it, but yet a guy is a great athlete because he dominates GOLF?

Tiger's probably a pretty good athlete, but there's no real way to tell how good because he competes in a venue in which athletic skills are pretty clearly beside the point. (Nicklaus? Mickleson? Daly, for God's sake?) Golf is about exactly as athletic as bowling, except that you have to walk farther between shots. Thoroughly dominating a game which is played and loved by millions makes Tiger justly celebrated, famous, and wealthy, but it doesn't make him a great athlete. Not unless "Fat Jack" was somehow a great athlete too.

no, my soccer comment was toward the boring nature of the sport and utter lack of action.

[orange+white=heaven]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

Yeah, so no Jim Thorpe either. Too bad. Bo Jackson, before he broke.

"Athlete" is such a deliberately general term that I think you can't really call someone a Great Athlete unless he can (or at least potentially could) do a lot of things well. A generalist, not a specialist. Take Lance Armstrong, for example. Winning seven Tours de France in a row is an order of magnitude beyond anything Tiger's done, and yet cycling is way too specialized to really consider Armstrong to be one of the greatest athletes ever.

Didn't stop him being named athlete of the year like three years running...

Look, that word athlete is akin to the description of the qualifications for the Heisman. You read the words, and still wind up going...huh... congressional legislation is that way too.

Tiger's dominance of his game outshines any other's dominance of their own. That works for me.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by orange+white=heaven

You know BPV nailed this debate before he ever started..

There are slap fights, but this hasn't been one. There's a legitimately interesting question in here somewhere, IMO.

[crazyguy]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

There are slap fights, but this hasn't been one. There's a legitimately interesting question in here somewhere, IMO.

like why would a man place a beer on his expensive laptop? You might cause some kind of weird electronic reaction and screw up the beer! This would then force you to throw away the laptop, keeping you away from the forum. More beer would then need to be drunk to fill in forum time and then a beer run would need to be undertaken, despite the aforementioned consumption. Big Brother catches you and treats you poorly for this action and you end up spending the night in a cage with a lonely guy named bubba with a penchant for guys in orange boxers. All over a beer on a laptop.

[volfanbill]

I will admit that I can see where Vercin is coming from. I'm a very avid golfer and follow the game very closely to put it lightly. But in my opinion athletes play sports, and golf is nothing but a game.

[superdave1984]

This might be a good time to read this article.
The World's Greatest Athlete? - WSJ.com

The panel weighed individual performance stats, along with their subjective judgments about the relative difficulty of each sport, to give an overall grade to the athletes. (See "How We Did It" for details.) The judges graded athletes on speed, reflexes, stamina, coordination, as well as power, strength and size. The finalists, they said, exhibited a wide range of athletic skill in highly competitive environments.


There were some surprises. Tiger Woods, a dominant figure in professional sports, didn't crack the Top 10. Panelists said they didn't give golfers much weight when assessing overall athletic ability. Michael Phelps, one of the greatest U.S. swimmers of all time, also missed the top tier because, the judges said, swimmers generally don't perform well out of the water. Such endurance athletes as marathoners and Tour de France cyclists also failed to impress. Too one-dimensional, the panel said.

[orange+white=heaven]

AND THE WINNER IS: ROMAN SEBRLE. The Czech decathlete could jump over Shaquille O’Neal. He could throw a 16-pound ball the length of a 53-foot yacht. From a running start, he could leap over a two-lane highway. Mr. Sebrle has ideal size, according to physiologists, and expertise over a range of athletic pursuits, employing the speed of an NFL back and the vertical jump of an National Basketball Association forward. Some judges questioned whether Mr. Sebrle could withstand a tackle by an NFL lineman, but none questioned his talent in the 10 track and field events that make up the decathlon. He has won Olympic gold and silver medals for the Czech Republic and is the current world champion.



Well there you have it. Case closed.

[truefan]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

I don't care if people apply a catch-all term like "athlete" to golfers, although as I said, if you do that, then you're basically saying that anybody who plays a game is an athlete. What I objected to was the IMO laughable assertion that Tiger is "the greatest athlete in the world" because he dominates a sport can be played very, very well by guys who look like they have doughnuts and chocolate milk for breakfast every morning. It sure seems to me like the greatest athlete in the world ought to have to break a sweat once in awhile.

You can't name one single player in the top 20 that is overweight and out of shape. News for you...Mickelson isn't 30 pounds overweight and can throw a baseball 95 MPH from ML mound and also has a nasty slider...supposedly.

Tiger, Vijay, Ernie Els, Sergio, etc....all those guys are in better shape than most anyone who frequents this board.

As far as the post on Nicklaus, he was an all-state LB in Ohio and could have played football for TOSU. Tom Watson was an all-state QB in Kansas City....

See the best players are also great athletes. Almost everyone of my teamates on my collge golf team played other sports in high school or were just really good athletes

Yes, a fatso can get decent at the game. To be one of the best, you have to be a good athlete