Crosby vs. Gretzky

#2
#2
I am no hockey buff, but if the general talent pool in the 80s and 90s is remotely close to the level of play today, then I've got Gretzky by a mile.
 
#3
#3
Wayne, but it might be closer than one would think. Betty White could've potted 20 during the 80's.
 
#5
#5
I'd take Mark Messier over Crosby. Crosby's really good, but we are not currently living through a great era of NHL talent.
 
#6
#6
There's a half dozen guys playing today who would've made runs at 200 points in that era. That's all I'm getting at.

To use your own words, it was still generally a simpleton's game then, slick players could put up ridiculous numbers. It was a sad era for defenses, partly because of the generally accepted scheming, and part because of an influx of great players.
 
#7
#7
Half a dozen guys? I don't believe that at all. Here is how my thinking goes: I'm old enough to have seen Gretzky when he first came in the league, and Lemieux when he came along a few years later, and Lemieux held on and played at a high level for a long time -- well into the modern clogged toilet era of the NHL. And Lemieux was still Lemieux even after the whole league decided they wanted to be the Devils. Therefore I think it's likely Gretzky would still have been Gretzky if he hadn't been a thousand years old by then too.

They played in an offensive era, sure, but there's a reason only two guys ever came close to 200 points. Messier played all the way through that era and his best was a paltry 129 points. Who are the six offensive players in the league now who are half again better than Messier?
 
#9
#9
Messier
Gretzky
Yzerman
Jagr
Lemieux

Off the top of my head, in no particular order, are all guys I'm taking over Sidney Crosby. I'm sure there's more, though perhaps Jagr doesn't count.
 
#10
#10
Holy s hit. I can't belive this is even a discussion. Gretzky is the most dominant athlete in any professional sport, ever.

Gretzky had more assists alone than any other player had/has points combined.
 
#11
#11
Regular season

1.Most goals: 894 in 1,487 games
2.Most goals, including playoffs: 1,016 in 1,487 regular season and 208 playoff games
3.Most goals, one season: 92 in 1981–82, 80-game schedule
4.Most goals, one season, including playoffs: 100 in 1983–84, 87 goals in 74 regular season games and 13 goals in 19 playoff games
5.Most goals, 50 games from start of season: 61 in 1981–82 (October 7, 1981 to January 22, 1982, 80-game schedule) and 1983–84 (October 5, 1983 to January 25, 1984), 80-game schedule
6.Most goals, one period: 4 (Tied with 10 other players) February 18, 1981
7.Most assists: 1,963
8.Most assists, including playoffs: 2,223
9.Most assists, one season: 163 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule
10.Most assists, one season, including playoffs: 174 in 1985–86, 163 assists in 80 regular season games and 11 assists in 10 playoff games
11.Most assists, one game: 7 (tied with Billy "The Kid" Taylor) on three occasions—February 15, 1980; December 11, 1985; February 14, 1986
12.Most assists, one road game: 7 (tied with Billy "The Kid" Taylor) December 11, 1985
13.Most points: 2,857 in 1,487 games (894 goals, 1,963 assists)
14.Most points, including playoffs: 3,239 in 1,487 regular season and 208 playoff games. (1016 goals, 2223 assists)
15.Most points, one season: 215 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule (52 goals, 163 assists)
16.Most points, one season, including playoffs: 255 in 1984–85; 208 points in 80 regular season games and 47 points in 18 playoff games
17.Most overtime assists, career: 15
18.Most goals by a center, career: 894
19.Most goals by a center, one season: 92 in 1981–82, 80-game schedule
20.Most assists by a center, career: 1,963
21.Most assists by a center, one season: 163 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule
22.Most points by a center, career: 2,857
23.Most points by a center, one season: 215 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule
24.Most assists in one game by a player in his first season: 7 on February 15, 1980
25.Highest goals-per-game average, one season: 1.18 in 1983–84, 87 goals in 74 games
26.Highest assists-per-game average, career (300 min.): 1.321 -- 1,963 assists in 1,487 games
27.Highest assists-per-game average, one season: 2.04 in 1985–86, 163 assists in 80 games
28.Highest points-per-game average, one season (among players with 50-or-more points): 2.77 in 1983–84, 205 points in 74 games
29.Most 40-or-more goal seasons: 12 in 20 seasons
30.Most consecutive 40-or-more goal seasons: 12 from 1979–80 to 1990–91
31.Most 50-or-more goal seasons: 9 (tied with Mike Bossy)
32.Most 60-or-more goal seasons: 5 (tied with Mike Bossy)
33.Most consecutive 60-or-more goals seasons: 4 from 1981–82 to 1984–85
34.Most 100-or-more point seasons: 15
35.Most consecutive 100-or-more point seasons: 13 from 1979–80 to 1991–92
36.Most three-or-more goal games, career: 50 -- 37 three-goal (hat trick) games; nine four-goal games; four five-goal games
37.Most three goal games, one season: 10 (done twice) in 1981–82 and 1983–84
38.Longest consecutive assist scoring streak: 23 games in 1990–91, 48 assists
39.Longest consecutive point-scoring streak: 51 Games in 1983–84 (October 5, 1983 to January 28, 1984, 61 goals, 92 assists for 153 points)
40.Longest consecutive point-scoring streak from start of season: 51 in 1983–84; 61 goals, 92 assists for 153 points (October 5, 1983 to January 28, 1984)


Playoffs

1.Most playoff goals, career: 122
2.Most playoff assists, career: 260
3.Most assists, one playoff year: 31 in 1988 (19 games)
4.Most assists in one series (other than final): 14 (tied with Rick Middleton) in 1985 Conference Finals (six games vs. Chicago)
5.Most assists in final series: 10 in 1988 (four games, plus suspended game vs. Boston)
6.Most assists, one playoff game: 6 (tied with Mikko Leinonen) on April 9, 1987
7.Most assists, one playoff period: 3 -- Three assists by one player in one period of a playoff game has been recorded on 70 occasions, five of them by Gretzky
8.Most points, career: 382 -- 122 goals and 260 assists
9.Most points, one playoff year: 47 in 1985 (17 goals and 30 assists in 18 games)
10.Most points in final series: 13 in 1988 three goals and 10 assists (four games plus suspended game vs. Boston, three goals)
11.Most points, one playoff period: 4 (tied with nine other players)
12.Most short-handed goals, one playoff year: 3 (tied with five other players) 1983
13.Most short-handed goals, one playoff game: 2 (tied with eight other players) April 6, 1983
14.Most game-winning goals in playoffs, career: 24 (tied with Brett Hull)
15.Most three-or-more goals games (hat trick): 10 (eight three-goal games, two four-goal games
 
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#13
#13
doozer said:
Messier
Gretzky
Yzerman
Jagr
Lemieux

Off the top of my head, in no particular order, are all guys I'm taking over Sidney Crosby. I'm sure there's more, though perhaps Jagr doesn't count.
Click to expand...

Let me just add Joe Sakic.
 
#14
#14
Volgrad98 said:
Let me just add Joe Sakic.
Click to expand...

Might as well add Lanny McDonald and Valeri Kamensky too.

4th all time in PPG, in an era that's been dominated by defensive hockey. People letting his public persona and nostalgia get in the way of sense.
 
#15
#15
Toujours Pret said:
Might as well add Lanny McDonald and Valeri Kamensky too.

4th all time in PPG, in an era that's been dominated by defensive hockey. People letting his public persona and nostalgia get in the way of sense.
Click to expand...

Disagree. Crosby never had to deal with the two-line pass rule and goalies being able to play the pucks in the corner. Today's game is way more offensive friendly and definitely gives a superstar talent like Crosby more of an advantage to score.
 
#16
#16
Other than a small spike for 2 seasons following the lockout, goals per game have stuck within 1/8 of the lows of the dead era. After a short adjustment period, its a push, lets not pretend that it's 1985 out there.
 
#17
#17
doozer said:
Messier
Gretzky
Yzerman
Jagr
Lemieux

Off the top of my head, in no particular order, are all guys I'm taking over Sidney Crosby. I'm sure there's more, though perhaps Jagr doesn't count.
Click to expand...

I would add Dionne and Richard to that list as well
 
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