Soccer and US Top Athletes

[milohimself]

Originally Posted by Hayezb

I can agree with that.

Klinsmann is suppose to be changing the way we train and develop our elite youth players. I really hope they give him time to turn things around. He's one of the brightest minds the US has imo.

Originally Posted by utvolpj

too bad there aren't situational subs in soccer. Trying to say a great athlete at one sport translates into success in all others is ridiculous. Yes there are some that could make the transition but not the ones you're considering

I do think more emphasis on identifying and training young talent is severely lacking in the US. Other countries do this much better and their success shows it works.

Re: Both posts, that works for developing a decent national club, and the US has been doing that for quite some time. Hell, it was just a few years back the US hit #4 in FIFA world rankings.

But becoming a sustained power really comes down to the advancement of clubs and their development programs. We still have a long way to go in that regard.

[utvolpj]

Originally Posted by milohimself

First, athleticism is very much third fiddle to field vision and foot-eye coordination. If somebody has the latter two but is a relatively poor athlete, they can still succeed at soccer.

Originally Posted by milohimself

Contrarily, there are guys in top flight leagues who could probably get outpaced by NFL offensive linemen, but it doesn't matter because they keep themselves in good position at all times, and make smart, accurate moves with the ball.

wow I couldn't disagree more. A bad athlete on a soccer field will get killed

[milohimself]

Originally Posted by utvolpj

wow I couldn't disagree more. A bad athlete on a soccer field will get killed

The fastest, slowest, fittest players at every Premier League club | Mail Online

Sandro, a midfielder for Tottenham Hotspur, never went faster than 16.28mph all of the 2010-2011 season.

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Vikings OT Matt Kalil clocked in at 4.99 in the 40 yard dash in the recent NFL draft, or 16.38mph.

Athleticism can definitely be a plus for footballers, but is in no way necessary to be of good quality. Smart positioning and accurate ball movement is a much bigger deal.

[utvolpj]

Originally Posted by milohimself

Smart positioning and accurate ball movement is a much bigger deal.

you are really marginalizing athleticism way too much. Your speed example really shows nothing since an OL could not do it for long enough to matter on the field. They also could not spend 90min working their way into the correct position

[milohimself]

Originally Posted by utvolpj

you are really marginalizing athleticism way too much. Your speed example really shows nothing since an OL could not do it for long enough to matter on the field. They also could not spend 90min working their way into the correct position

No, just presenting a counter to the impression that many Americans seem to have that soccer requires a high level of athleticism, probably because football and basketball require it.

I'm not marginalizing athleticism. There are many great footballers that are also great athletes, but there are also some that most definitely are not.

My point is that the traits I mentioned previously are critical to being a good footballer; they need to be learned very early, and practiced with regularity year-round to get to that point. It's a lot like motorsports in that respect, if you don't start young and dedicate yourself to it, you probably won't get to a high level. That's why Ochocinco and Bolt won't ever be players at any sort of high level.

Athleticism can definitely add quality aspects to somebody's game if they know how to play to begin with, but it never has and never will turn somebody with poor or average fundamentals into a quality player. Contrarily, soccer is littered with guys of moderate fitness and athleticism at best that are quality because they know how to play the game.

Again, the key is starting and committing young. It's extremely rare that you see a guy in the top flight anywhere that picked up the sport with regularity past their early teens.

[n_huffhines]

FWIW, my buddy was all-state in HS soccer, and coaches at a ranked JC now in Iowa. He was an average athlete, but had great smarts and technical ability when he played. He practiced with RSL's squad, and I assumed he couldn't hang because he wasn't athletic enough. He told me that wasn't the issue. He said their touch was on a whole different level (and that's MLS).

There are guys that get by on pure athleticism (Robbie Findley) and there are guys that get by on pure skill (Cuatemoc Blanco), but in most cases you have to be strong in both categories.

[Il Principo]

I think you can get by in soccer by just being really fast or a great athlete (Theo Walcott anyone?) but that's not where the U.S. is lacking. When you watch our national team play, it's not that they're slower or weaker than other teams, in fact it's the opposite if anything. The most glaring flaw to me is the knowledge of what to do with the ball immediately, when you watch the Spanish, Dutch, or Germans their first touch has purpose and when you watch the U.S. our first touch is just to settle the ball, then figure out what to do with it. That seems like a small thing, but it really limits our ball movement and tactics.

[milohimself]

Findley has definitely fallen off since moving to Nottingham Forest. MLS is very average compared to European leagues, maybe at the same level as Austria/Scotland/Poland at best for the most part. Raw athleticism can get you by at lower levels, but any time that sort of player moves up to a better league, production drops steeply.

[milohimself]

Originally Posted by Il Principo

I think you can get by in soccer by just being really fast or a great athlete (Theo Walcott anyone?) but that's not where the U.S. is lacking. When you watch our national team play, it's not that they're slower or weaker than other teams, in fact it's the opposite if anything. The most glaring flaw to me is the knowledge of what to do with the ball immediately, when you watch the Spanish, Dutch, or Germans their first touch has purpose and when you watch the U.S. our first touch is just to settle the ball, then figure out what to do with it. That seems like a small thing, but it really limits our ball movement and tactics.

Theo Walcott also knows how to play.

It still seems that MLS reserves and USLPDL are coming along nicely. American sides are slowly starting to bring in more and more homegrown talent, and every few years there are a couple more guys on MLS sides making the roster. It's a slow process, but we're getting better.

[n_huffhines]

Originally Posted by milohimself

Findley has definitely fallen off since moving to Nottingham Forest. MLS is very average compared to European leagues, maybe at the same level as Austria/Scotland/Poland at best for the most part. Raw athleticism can get you by at lower levels, but any time that sort of player moves up to a better league, production drops steeply.

Findley fell off before leaving the MLS. After the World Cup his confidence was shattered, and his last season at RSL was a disaster. Sad. I'm rooting for the guy.

[volball625]

Definitely do not need to be a great athlete to be a great player. Sergio Busquets is one of the most clumsy, uncoordinated "athletes" I've ever seen. But he's a top three defensive midfielder in the world.

[utvolpj]

says a lot that some would say that some of the top players in the world aren't great athletes. Guess that's why we're so far behind. Well that and the fact some think Lebron would make a great keeper

[volball625]

Originally Posted by utvolpj

says a lot that some would say that some of the top players in the world aren't great athletes. Guess that's why we're so far behind. Well that and the fact some think Lebron would make a great keeper

Do you know who Sergio Busquets is?

[utvolpj]

Originally Posted by volball625

Do you know who Sergio Busquets is?

no but I just watched highlights. If you think that's clumsy and uncoordinated then I'm sorry I even opened the thread. I'll just let you guys discuss

[volball625]

Originally Posted by utvolpj

no but I just watched highlights. If you think that's clumsy and uncoordinated then I'm sorry I even opened the thread.

The classic guy who watches a five minute highlight video acting like he knows more than the guy who has watched over 200 of his games. Move on pj