Offensive film breakdown: spring game, big difference from 2017

#26
#26
I talk to my nephew Brandon and said the Offense is explosive, but Pruitt is not playing the radio. Pruitt run a very tight ship.

They scheme and concepts look great.

Need to recruit more explosive WRs though.
Brandon is a 3rd down conversion machine. Need one more like him.

Need Jennings and Callaway to live up to their billing
 
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#27
#27
Hope Helton's 'O' is more productive in the red zone, we left waaaay to many points on the field last season. Power formations should produce more TD.
 
#28
#28
So, there is no reason to find anything to be encouraged about and should look at every single aspect of our program through glass half empty with murky bilge water? Overly optimistic posts are entertaining, but some refuse to even consider letting a positive post go without bashing it into oblivion. We should all just consider next year's team 0-12 and find something better to do that watch the VOLS play football!

CBJ himself couldn't go 0-12 next season with this team...but I'm sure he would get close.
 
#29
#29
It's an OrangeDefense Sunshine Pump thread, not a detailed discussion of our offensive scheme.

From a scheme perspective, I would think we kept our looks very basic and very vanilla so WV would have limited film to look at. That's one reason why I don't like drawing too many conclusions....

there is an incomplete pass shown as one of the "success" stories, and in another he is talking about the QB missing an open TE. hardly blind sunshine pumping. also points out the problems with the offensive line and pass blocking
 
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#30
#30
OD, I didn't see in your op, but do you think these new schemes will help us beat Smart and the dawgs? I kid...

On a serious note, that was an interesting, informative read. Thanks for sharing.
 
#31
#31
It's an OrangeDefense Sunshine Pump thread, not a detailed discussion of our offensive scheme.

From a scheme perspective, I would think we kept our looks very basic and very vanilla so WV would have limited film to look at. That's one reason why I don't like drawing too many conclusions....

Yep. We didn't even see a single screen play. And you know with how our OL pass blocks that we're gonna be using those to take advantage of overzealous pass rushes.
 
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#32
#32
Hope Helton's 'O' is more productive in the red zone, we left waaaay to many points on the field last season. Power formations should produce more TD.

Complete speculation here:

Pruitt has a HS coaching background and has talked about that many times, especially in regards to "getting the best 11 on the field."

We've seen Bama have some success at times over the past few seasons using DL on offense in short yardage situations and how we have at least 3 DL who've practiced some on the OL during Spring Camp.


I'm halfway expecting us to have a special short yardage package with a DL or two like Emerson or Crosby to come in and help give a push when we really need a yard.
 
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#33
#33
Complete speculation here:

Pruitt has a HS coaching background and has talked about that many times, especially in regards to "getting the best 11 on the field."

We've seen Bama have some success at times over the past few seasons using DL on offense in short yardage situations and how we have at least 3 DL who've practiced some on the OL during Spring Camp.


I'm halfway expecting us to have a special short yardage package with a DL or two like Emerson or Crosby to come in and help give a push when we really need a yard.
Not trying to step on toes, I was asking this in the practice threads when they went to practice o line.
 
#34
#34
I would rejoice in the fact that someone took something positive away from this phase of the preparation, but I wouldn't extrapolate any of the results to the season to come. UT now has interesting schemes.
 
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#35
#35
Not trying to step on toes, I was asking this in the practice threads when they went to practice o line.

We still don't know if any of those guys will stick on the OL or not, I guess.

It will be interesting to see if it happens or not!
 
#36
#36
A couple of things I would like to add here.

#1 if you wanna learn about manipulating defense just watch a Kyle Shanahan coached offense.

#2 (and the most important note) zone blocking isn't a problem in goal line situations... There are plenty of things you can do to adjust the scheme, IE track block, split adjustment, area block, man/lock block.

#3 whenever you have an H back the defense has to decide how to count you (as a back or TE) usually keyed on ability or tendency.

#4 Lastly, remember whenever we motion someone out or someone in... We are doing it for a reason... To watch how the D adjusts and that will tell us what to do... Either get a numbers advantage in the run game or pass game... You get something you also have to give something.

Sorry about the lack of grammar control 😄
 
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#37
#37
A couple of things I would like to add here.

#1 if you wanna learn about manipulating defense just watch a Kyle Shanahan coached offense.

#2 (and the most important note) zone blocking isn't a problem in goal line situations... There are plenty of things you can do to adjust the scheme, IE track block, split adjustment, area block, man/lock block.

#3 whenever you have an H back the defense has to decide how to count you (as a back or TE) usually keyed on ability or tendency.

#4 Lastly, remember whenever we motion someone out or someone in... We are doing it for a reason... To watch how the D adjusts and that will tell us what to do... Either get a numbers advantage in the run game or pass game... You get something you also have to give something.

Sorry about the lack of grammar control 😄

Good post. I have read your posts for a long while, and you have a good understanding of scheme. I played ball thru junior and senior high, and have a good understanding of the game..but I played only defense and I like reading about how and why on the specifics of offense. There is a guy whose stuff gets linked here that breaks down much of our film. He did during the B utch era anyway..sure hope he continues. I want to say it was at blogspot?? Anyway, post more about scheme as the season goes on. I want to learn about Heltons offense..so excited after the garbage offense we have had
 
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#38
#38
Good post. I have read your posts for a long while, and you have a good understanding of scheme. I played ball thru junior and senior high, and have a good understanding of the game..but I played only defense and I like reading about how and why on the specifics of offense. There is a guy whose stuff gets linked here that breaks down much of our film. He did during the B utch era anyway..sure hope he continues. I want to say it was at blogspot?? Anyway, post more about scheme as the season goes on. I want to learn about Heltons offense..so excited after the garbage offense we have had
Thanks buddy will do!
 
#39
#39
Thanks OD - Great stuff. Pope’s a good football player!
You’re welcome, and I believe that Pope will be a leader in that locker room, because he looks like he has got everything down and is ready to go. I believe this offense has learned this playbook already. :clapping:
 
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#40
#40
It mentions that Palmer had a good spring. I thought he did pretty well too. Could have done better but I'm not sure why he has gotten a lot of hate this spring game.
 
#41
#41
Reading the article I think there are a few things that are overblown/just flat wrong.

For instance the first part talking about personnel groupings. A chart is shown of an admittedly ad-hoc breakdown of personnel groupings from the spring game. This chart on its own only proves one thing.. this offense thus far hasn't changed nearly as much as people think/hope.According to the chart we lined up 70 times in 11 personnel and 21 in the others combined (10,12, 21). So you split that between the 2 squads and its like 35 to 10 11 personnel to everything else. So 75-80% of the time we were lined up in single back 3 wide. Now this chart actually does not mean anything without context or comparison.

How did we line up last season on a per snap basis/per game basis? From pure memory us lining up about 80% of the time in 11/12 is a solid number.. which matches this spring games numbers.

The second misleading thing in the article is that we are using the tight ends differently this year. I saw us many times lining up Tight ends both as H-backs, inline and flexed out. The rest was someone picking 1 or 2 of hundreds of plays the offense ran last year and comparing them to some plays run in the spring game with no real contextual link.

In short if the article has focused on positive things seen in the spring game instead of purposely focusing on comparing this team to last years team it would have done a lot better being valid. Or maybe if the writer had taken time to actually research what they are talking about. I mean there is plenty of ammo in game film and statistics sites that can be used to show the flaws of last years team and contrast against what it looks like is changing here. This article just does a terrible job of showing that.

That's the scary thing. the premise of the article is sound. It does look like there are changes in the offense and defense from the spring game. Then it completely fails to actually show those changes to the point of actually misrepresenting info. That's a slippery slope.

I also noticed the formations being very similar. Although its quite different in what the TE/Hback is being asked to do. To me the previous O we had the TE/Hback always block behind the line. Looks like in the new O they have them getting down field to hit the LB. I honestly never understood our previous O concept of the TE/Hback always catching the edge guy. Main reason we never really pressed the ball down the field. No sunshine being pumped by me either. I think we are a 6/6 team at best this year.
 
#42
#42
Disagree that JG held the ball too long in the O&W game outside of 2-3 plays out of 30 or so drop backs. Especially in the second half, when he was letting the ball go consistently in sync the last step of drops. He had one bad one in particular, right before “the half” during the 2 or 4 minute hurry up offense....McElroy pointed it out. But outside of that and maybe another play or two, he was decisive and quick to get the ball out of his hand.

In the entire game Guarantano had 2 drop backs that from snap to throw were longer than 2.5 seconds. One was 3.2 and one was 3.5. He lived mainly in the 2.2 to 2.5 second area on drop backs. If you are getting sacked in that amount of time you have an o-line problem not a QB decision problem. Not only was he quicker but he was also more consistent at finding the open receiver. Finding the open receiver consistently in a quicker manner to me shows great improvement in his decision making.
 
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#43
#43
I also noticed the formations being very similar. Although its quite different in what the TE/Hback is being asked to do. To me the previous O we had the TE/Hback always block behind the line. Looks like in the new O they have them getting down field to hit the LB. I honestly never understood our previous O concept of the TE/Hback always catching the edge guy. Main reason we never really pressed the ball down the field. No sunshine being pumped by me either. I think we are a 6/6 team at best this year.

Butch's offense has always been more about stretching the field horizontally than vertically. His TEs were just another means of accomplishing that, hence all the drag routes and flats
 
#44
#44
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#45
#45
Reading the article I think there are a few things that are overblown/just flat wrong.

For instance the first part talking about personnel groupings. A chart is shown of an admittedly ad-hoc breakdown of personnel groupings from the spring game. This chart on its own only proves one thing.. this offense thus far hasn't changed nearly as much as people think/hope.According to the chart we lined up 70 times in 11 personnel and 21 in the others combined (10,12, 21). So you split that between the 2 squads and its like 35 to 10 11 personnel to everything else. So 75-80% of the time we were lined up in single back 3 wide. Now this chart actually does not mean anything without context or comparison.

How did we line up last season on a per snap basis/per game basis? From pure memory us lining up about 80% of the time in 11/12 is a solid number.. which matches this spring games numbers.

The second misleading thing in the article is that we are using the tight ends differently this year. I saw us many times lining up Tight ends both as H-backs, inline and flexed out. The rest was someone picking 1 or 2 of hundreds of plays the offense ran last year and comparing them to some plays run in the spring game with no real contextual link.

In short if the article has focused on positive things seen in the spring game instead of purposely focusing on comparing this team to last years team it would have done a lot better being valid. Or maybe if the writer had taken time to actually research what they are talking about. I mean there is plenty of ammo in game film and statistics sites that can be used to show the flaws of last years team and contrast against what it looks like is changing here. This article just does a terrible job of showing that.

That's the scary thing. the premise of the article is sound. It does look like there are changes in the offense and defense from the spring game. Then it completely fails to actually show those changes to the point of actually misrepresenting info. That's a slippery slope.

Lordy,Lordy!!!!!

This is as "complicated" as the topic itself.
Both make since to my humble amount of understanding. I have given you both a "up thumb", but have no idea as to your summation of our team. From what I can glean from you efforts you both are expecting, but are not sure what, changes are coming.
Am I right or in the dark as usual?
 
#46
#46
I am "unlearnt"..
Tell me what a twelve man team is...

Forget this I'm now "learnt". Went back, 12 seems to refer to a formation not the number of players. Right???

One way of describing offenses is by counting the number of running backs and tight ends. So if you have one RB and one TE on the field, you're in an 11 (1 and 1) package. Two RBs, like a fullback and tail back, and one TE, and you're in a 21 (2 and 1). And so on. It is possible to have none of either, a 00, with five receivers.

Notice that by listing the number of RBs and TEs, you're also indirectly saying how many WRs there are. Because the total of those three position groups will (almost) always = 5. Accounting for (almost always) five linemen and one QB.

So with just two numerals, you capture all the normal variants of personnel on the field for any offense.

And that's why coaches and analysts like to use that shorthand...it's VERY short, for conveying so much info.


p.s. The one thing this shorthand does not describe is the actual formation. It can't tell you where those tight ends line up, whether the backs are in an I formation, or anything else about spacing. Just gives numbers. That's why it's called "package" or "personnel," but not "formation."
 
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#47
#47
I will draw encouragement when our OL imposes their will on opponents and doesn't let teams like Umass and Ap State whip their a-s. I will not draw encouragement from a glorified scrimmage in which the coach said players quit.

Things like injuries, improvements in conditioning, and better execution are the items where I would draw encouragement or discouragement from in the Spring..

Umass and Ap St jumped our formations based on film study. We did what they expected over and over. They jumped the play and still got beat.

When the HC takes pride in everybody knowing what we are about to do, that's an issue.

Butch "Checkers" Jones is gone. Play calling has been compared to a chess match not compared to checkers.

How many time did you know what was coming? It's hard to block a guy that is shooting the gap based off film study. The problem was how often they were right and blew up the play.

When a Dline doesn't have to protect against different plays and can go all in to stop what is expected and then we run what they are expecting it really puts an Oline at a disadvantage.

When our RB lined up on the left how often did he get the ball going left? Same when he lined up on the right, he went left. Not only were we predictable we were simple.

I'm glad that's over.

We ran a ton of different formations at the O&W game.
 
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#49
#49
Butch's offense has always been more about stretching the field horizontally than vertically. His TEs were just another means of accomplishing that, hence all the drag routes and flats

Oh I am fully aware. To me that's the biggest change. The formations will be pretty similar. After the formation everything has changed. Instead of a decoy the TE/HB will be used to attack. We may suck balls this year , but it will be a refreshing change to watch the O actually be on the attack.
 
#50
#50
I am "unlearnt"..
Tell me what a twelve man team is...

Forget this I'm now "learnt". Went back, 12 seems to refer to a formation not the number of players. Right???

12 is one back two tight ends... It's a personnel package
So the first number is the amount of backs in the game and the second number is the amount of tight ends in the game.
 

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