Horrible officiating

#51
#51
While I'm not one to invoked poor officiating this year I have witnessed some really bad calls..I was at the Ole Miss game and the officials just could not keep up with the speed of the game and it showed both ways....and a couple of calls in yesterdays game just came at crucial times...I agree that the flagrant call was just plain bad and when they went to the monitor they must have seen just how bad it was. Then to call a flagrant is puzzling....I understand that inadvertent contact is a flagrant one...but CLEARLY there was no contact..in the end we only gave up one point BUT the overriding factor was the break in play taking the ball away from UT and causing basically a turnover. The goal tending call was just plain wrong...CRB has every right to question such an obvious bad call....so in this game the officials DID become a part of the outcome...but Miss State is extremely talented at a couple of positions and will make some noise down the stretch....
 
#52
#52
It was goaltending. If you look at it at 1 frame per second with a magnifying glass, the ball kissed the backboard a nanosecond before Williams touched it.

Incorrect. The ball was still 1/2" clear and moving toward the backboard when Williams had the tips of his fingers on it (helps if you use the white backboard square as a reference). Barnes and his staff looked at it postgame and were very vocal about it being a bad call.

It's at the 2:53 mark at the end if anyone else can and wants to weigh in.
 
#53
#53
Williams touched it before it hit the backboard. It was a game changing kind of call without a doubt. Instead of a shot clock violation it was a four pt game. I have never seen Barnes so upset and vocal about a call after a game. Go watch his post game and he was hot about it.
 
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#54
#54
For those of you that think that officiating is easy try it out for yourselves and tell me how easy you think it really is and it don't matter what level of basketball that we are talking about, whether it be youth,high school,college,or the NBA leagues..i've been doing it for 2 years now here in Columbia Tn youth basketball leagues n look here people it's not easy to deal with ya know....
 
#55
#55
Williams touched it before it hit the backboard. It was a game changing kind of call without a doubt. Instead of a shot clock violation it was a four pt game. I have never seen Barnes so upset and vocal about a call after a game. Go watch his post game and he was hot about it.

I agree. I thought he got to it just before it hit the backboard.
 
#56
#56
For those of you that think that officiating is easy try it out for yourselves and tell me how easy you think it really is and it don't matter what level of basketball that we are talking about, whether it be youth,high school,college,or the NBA leagues..i've been doing it for 2 years now here in Columbia Tn youth basketball leagues n look here people it's not easy to deal with ya know....

To the officials credit, basketball is, IMO, the most difficult major sport to officiate. So many rules have to be considered in a split second. I have officiated before and it is so hard. I am one of the last ones to complain about officiating because I've been there. Sometimes it's just so bad that it deserves to be recognized for its poor effort, but not as often as fans think.
 
#57
#57
I agree. I thought he got to it just before it hit the backboard.

Slow moed it. It was a block.
Barnes was jawing about it to the refs. Read his lips.
Herrard's put back at the end looked like it was on the rim.

Wasn't why we lost though.
We looked like freshmen and sophs second half.
 
#58
#58
Slow moed it. It was a block.
Barnes was jawing about it to the refs. Read his lips.
Herrard's put back at the end looked like it was on the rim.

Wasn't why we lost though.
We looked like freshmen and sophs second half.

Thanks. I thought it looked clean on replay as well. I hate to see a play like that affect a game, but it's so bang-bang in real time, that I can't really blame the officials for it.
 
#59
#59
If a ball out of bounds, shot clock violation, flagrant foul, 2pt -3pt shot is reviewable why the hell isnt a goal tending call?
 
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#60
#60
If a ball out of bounds, shot clock violation, flagrant foul, 2pt -3pt shot is reviewable why the hell isnt a goal tending call?

If a shot is blocked and ruled a goal tend in real time, but the offense ended up holding the ball after the deflection, who gets the ball if the goal tend is overruled?

3 of those are always reviewed at a natural stoppage of play and shot clock violation reviews are usually at dead balls as well.
 
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#61
#61
If a shot is blocked and ruled a goal tend in real time, but the offense ended up holding the ball after the deflection, who gets the ball if the goal tend is overruled?

The dead ball part would be hard I know. In this case it wouldn't have mattered. The shot clock was out so maybe you let it play out like the 2-3pt shot and to back after the fact to see if it was correct.
 
#62
#62
The dead ball part would be hard I know. In this case it wouldn't have mattered. The shot clock was out so maybe you let it play out like the 2-3pt shot and to back after the fact to see if it was correct.

Too many delays for reviews already. Sometimes the reviews create more of a problem than they're solving. A team without a time out gets a free one while the refs huddle in front of the little monitor. That might mean more than a point added or subtracted for a 3 or not.
 
#63
#63
For those of you that think that officiating is easy try it out for yourselves and tell me how easy you think it really is and it don't matter what level of basketball that we are talking about, whether it be youth,high school,college,or the NBA leagues..i've been doing it for 2 years now here in Columbia Tn youth basketball leagues n look here people it's not easy to deal with ya know....
Yeah its not easy I agree....One of my best friends is and has been an SEC umpire for many years...He says what effects good officiating after the person knows the game is the ability to keep up with the speed of the game. He's 59 years old and considered one of the best in the game. He's actually done fill in games at the MLB level. But this year or maybe next season will probably be his last. The travel and his age are becoming a factor...As he always says about favoritism, "my favorite game is a 1-0 pitchers duel with the home team winning". Lets get it done and move on....A few years ago I was watching him on ESPN doing a tournament game and the score was like 19-18 with balls flying out of the park. He had home plate and HE WAS MISERABLE...I Called him immediately after the game and he was steaming...his comments was "who's teaching these kids how to pitch because it aint working"...
 
#64
#64
If a ball out of bounds, shot clock violation, flagrant foul, 2pt -3pt shot is reviewable why the hell isnt a goal tending call?

It wasn't under 2:00, so it wouldn't have mattered, but I've wondered about how you'd handle situations in which an inadvertent goal tend was called. Like in this case, Williams blocked the shot and a goal tend was called. After reviewing it (assuming it was a reviewable call), if you determine it wasn't a goal tend, who gets the ball? Does MSU get the ball under their own basket with the remaining time on the shot clock, or does Tennessee get the ball? Or is it an alternate possession situation?
 
#65
#65
At some point you just have to let them play and go with the ref's judgement. Every traveling call is a judgement. Block/charge is a judgement.

I've seen some inbounds passes after made baskets where the inbounder had stepped inbounds go unnoticed by the refs. You can't catch everything and make every ruling exact and precise. Near goal tends or not are pretty rare plays.

I still don't get the flagrant foul call after the review. Is the monitor too small?
 
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#66
#66
At some point you just have to let them play and go with the ref's judgement. Every traveling call is a judgement. Block/charge is a judgement.

I've seen some inbounds passes after made baskets where the inbounder had stepped inbounds go unnoticed by the refs. You can't catch everything and make every ruling exact an precise. Near goal tends or not are pretty rare plays.

I still don't get the flagrant foul call after the review. Is the monitor too small?

To me, that is the most egregious call because they had a chance (a second chance, no less) and the means to get it right, and they still blew it. If I'm Barnes, that is the one I'm fuming over.
 
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#67
#67
To me, that is the most egregious call because they had a chance (a second chance, no less) and the means to get it right, and they still blew it. If I'm Barnes, that is the one I'm fuming over.

Yeah, they can't reverse a foul call but I was shocked that they upgraded it. Read somewhere that his elbow made contact above the defender's shoulders which is an automatic flagrant. On the in broadcast replay (I haven't re-watched the DVR) it looked to me like a horrible acting job by the defender. But an over-the-top reaction is irrelevant I suppose. Schofield must have barely touched him with his elbow which would have been a no-call had the defender not taken the dive.
 
#68
#68
At some point you just have to let them play and go with the ref's judgement. Every traveling call is a judgement. Block/charge is a judgement.

I've seen some inbounds passes after made baskets where the inbounder had stepped inbounds go unnoticed by the refs. You can't catch everything and make every ruling exact an precise. Near goal tends or not are pretty rare plays.

I still don't get the flagrant foul call after the review. Is the monitor too small?

The block/charge is a judgment, but there are things to look for/look at when determining the call, and you have to be taught that. You can't get caught just looking at the offensive player; you have to look ahead and vertically at body positions. Those are taught. Plus, the rule changes are supposed to make it tougher to call a charge, and I don't think it's being called that way.

I have read several say they have officiated, and I did too when I was younger. I agree it's not easy. But you have to know the rules, show effort, and not be the center of attention.
 
#69
#69
Yeah, they can't reverse a foul call but I was shocked that they upgraded it. Read somewhere that his elbow made contact above the defender's shoulders which is an automatic flagrant. On the in broadcast replay (I haven't re-watched the DVR) it looked to me like a horrible acting job by the defender. But an over-the-top reaction is irrelevant I suppose. Schofield must have barely touched him with his elbow which would have been a no-call had the defender not taken the dive.

I believe it's a common foul if it's a "basketball move" and not anything extra. The announcers even thought it wasn't egregious. I agree with you because I am not even sure the defender got hit very hard because he didn't keep holding anything to suggest it hurt.
 
#70
#70
I am against all reviews because it's a game played by humans and should be officiated the same but if you are going to review some things why not all.
 
#71
#71
I am against all reviews because it's a game played by humans and should be officiated the same but if you are going to review some things why not all.

The 2 versus 3 point call at the next TO isn't too disruptive. But it can also affect strategy if it's late and the teams are playing based on what they think the score is.
 
#72
#72
Yeah, they can't reverse a foul call but I was shocked that they upgraded it. Read somewhere that his elbow made contact above the defender's shoulders which is an automatic flagrant. On the in broadcast replay (I haven't re-watched the DVR) it looked to me like a horrible acting job by the defender. But an over-the-top reaction is irrelevant I suppose. Schofield must have barely touched him with his elbow which would have been a no-call had the defender not taken the dive.

Yes, the acting on Kegler's part was what made the upgrade so embarrassing. I'm fine with the foul call. Admiral extended the arm and initiated contact. But Kegler was "hit" on his left side, yet he flailed his head around to the left side as well. If I hit you on the left side of your face or neck, your face or neck should move to the right. Add to that, his reaction came about a second late of what it should have had he really been contacted with any actual force.

The whole sequence was embarrassing and made even more so by the upgrade after the benefit of replay.
 

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