'16 TN F John Fulkerson (UT commit 11/6/15)

#26
#26
You have to consider the timing of the offer when predicting where he might fit in the class. IMO offering a mid major talent in the summer is way to early to give it the benefit of the doubt

BTO you even suggested CRB shouldn't take mid major talents to fill a huge need at PG last class but now you are having a wait and see approach. Interesting change of heart

Fulkerson won't be relied on to compete immediately at the wing position, you don't see the difference?
 
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#27
#27
That offer list has a Cuonzo/Tyndall kinda vibe. I just thought with RB's history, he wouldn't be recruiting against ETSU and SC Upstate


It's a little disappointing ......IMO. He should be a walking on.

If he gets a UGA and IU offer in the following weeks will this immediately become a good offer? Honest question.
 
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#28
#28
It's fairly impressive that the kid is 6'8 and is billed as a SF who is under the radar. Typically, you'd see this type of high schooler labeled a C or PF. The elite guys usually can get away with having that type of length and not be labeled a post. It says something about his skillset and athleticism if he can truly handle the ball, shoot and defend at that height.
 
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#29
#29
Fulkerson won't be relied on to compete immediateky at the wing position, you don't see the difference?

These were your words just a few weeks ago:

"when trying to build stability why tie up a scholarship for 3-4 years on a guy who has no business being on scholarship at Tennessee?"

"As I've addressed already, I would prefer not to fill the roster for the next 3 seasons with mid major talent"


Sure would make much more sense to take a chance on a mid major talent at a position of need with no other option(that was the discussion) than in this case.

Seems like to me the flip flopping of opinions is simply based on which HC was making the offers.
 
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#30
#30
These were your words just a few weeks ago:

"when trying to build stability why tie up a scholarship for 3-4 years on a guy who has no business being on scholarship at Tennessee?"

"As I've addressed already, I would prefer not to fill the roster for the next 3 seasons with mid major talent"


Sure would make much more sense to take a chance on a mid major talent at a position of need with no other option(that was the discussion) than in this case.

Seems like to me the flip flopping of opinions is simply based on which HC was making the offers.
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#31
#31
These were your words just a few weeks ago:

"when trying to build stability why tie up a scholarship for 3-4 years on a guy who has no business being on scholarship at Tennessee?"

"As I've addressed already, I would prefer not to fill the roster for the next 3 seasons with mid major talent"


Sure would make much more sense to take a chance on a mid major talent at a position of need with no other option(that was the discussion) than in this case.

Seems like to me the flip flopping of opinions is simply based on which HC was making the offers.

"On a guy who has no business being on scholarship at Tennessee"...I feel Fulkerson does deserve that.

"I would preder not to fill the roster for the next 3 seasons with mid major talent"...again, I don't think he's some scrub, I thought that was clear?

I like Fulkerson's game, I've talked to Andre Whitehead about Fulkerson, if you're not familiar with AW he's seen guys like Jalen Steele, Skylar McBee, Lester Wilson, Dre Mathieu etc. more than any college coach ever has, and he had very high praise for Fulkerson and the potential that he has.

On your last sentence, does Rick Barnes, a 17 time NCAAT coach, head man to 20+ NBA players and likely future member of the CBBHOF get a little bit more of a "leash" or "pass" than the life long cheater and mid major coach who's made 2 NCAAT? Yes, yes he does.
 
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#32
#32
I guess I was confused. I thought the spin zone was over with a real recruiter taking over.

I expected us to be in on all the top guys and not make reaches so EARLY in the recruiting year
 
#33
#33
I guess I was confused. I thought the spin zone was over with a real recruiter taking over.

I expected us to be in on all the top guys and not make reaches so EARLY in the recruiting year

I don't feel he's a reach, I guess that's where we differ in opinion, I feel we are early to the party on a rising prospect who's likely to end up ranked and with multiple high major offers.

If the whole '16 class is filled with similar caliber players it will be an issue, but would be about on par with what the previous guy was about to bring in.

My stance is very simple and has remained the same on Fulkerson since he camped at Tennessee over a month ago, if he's the lowest rated recruit of a 5-7 man '16 class I will gladly take it.
 
#35
#35
If he gets a UGA and IU offer in the following weeks will this immediately become a good offer? Honest question.

IU, yes. UGA not so much. UGA is a solidly bottom third SEC program over time. Every once in a while they do better, sometimes for couple of years, but not very often.
 
#36
#36
I saw him play many times while he was at Robyn's Bennett, I really don't see why we offered I mean he was a good player but when you are playing teams like Sullivan Central you shluld be great. Science hill is the only team close that is good and lots of other teams would beat them the past few years. Not a fan of this offer...
 
#37
#37
I guess I was confused. I thought the spin zone was over with a real recruiter taking over.

I expected us to be in on all the top guys and not make reaches so EARLY in the recruiting year
Don't get your hopes up too high. Barnes can recruit but we won't have Kentucky or Duke like recruiting classes. We should have top 25 classes and be competitive. Barnes is here to give stability and to help us rejuvenate the talent pool. Also some of Barnes key players have been 3 star guys. Guys like Connor Lammert, Isaiah Taylor, Javan Felix (borderline 3-4*) and Martez Walker could be included. Dude has been a decent piece to the puzzle. 2017 i think we can expect a huge class especially with the recruiting connections our assitants have and all the good Canadian players for that class. I could be totally wrong here and/or missed the blue font. If so let me know :)
 
#38
#38
Don't get your hopes up too high. Barnes can recruit but we won't have Kentucky or Duke like recruiting classes. We should have top 25 classes and be competitive. Barnes is here to give stability and to help us rejuvenate the talent pool. Also some of Barnes key players have been 3 star guys. Guys like Connor Lammert, Isaiah Taylor, Javan Felix (borderline 3-4*) and Martez Walker could be included. Dude has been a decent piece to the puzzle. 2017 i think we can expect a huge class especially with the recruiting connections our assitants have and all the good Canadian players for that class. I could be totally wrong here and/or missed the blue font. If so let me know :)

I don't expect KY or Duke classes, but a Mississippi State or Auburn class would be nice. Both those guys got it going pretty good with top 100 guys right off the bat and Tennessee has a lot more to sell than either of those places.

I think Barnes will do fine, but it is a little disconcerting to see the level of prospect vs my own personal expectation. I really thought, and maybe I was delusional, that Tennessee would at least have a top 20/ top third of the SEC level class in Barnes' first shot at it. I didn't think he'd do as well as Pearl (that was a miracle with a sixth ranked class), but I didn't think top 20 would be too much to expect. The way it's looking now, unless Tennessee lands Blackwell, top 20 out of reach and you probably are looking at a similar class to the last two Cuonzo groups.
 
#39
#39
I don't expect KY or Duke classes, but a Mississippi State or Auburn class would be nice. Both those guys got it going pretty good with top 100 guys right off the bat and Tennessee has a lot more to sell than either of those places.

I think Barnes will do fine, but it is a little disconcerting to see the level of prospect vs my own personal expectation. I really thought, and maybe I was delusional, that Tennessee would at least have a top 20/ top third of the SEC level class in Barnes' first shot at it. I didn't think he'd do as well as Pearl (that was a miracle with a sixth ranked class), but I didn't think top 20 would be too much to expect. The way it's looking now, unless Tennessee lands Blackwell, top 20 out of reach and you probably are looking at a similar class to the last two Cuonzo groups.

IMO, you may be underestimating the way the Tennessee program is perceived nationally after the last 5 years. 4 coaches and 2 brushes with the NCAA, either directly or indirectly, is not a recipe for immediate success. Auburn and MSU were awful for a long time, but all they needed was a coach to convince players they could win. Barnes is tasked with not only that, but also fighting the perception that Tennessee is a renegade program with clown shoes leadership that will just be turning over that leadership continually. He has to establish a stable foundation of leadership and program integrity before high profile talent will consistently follow.

And it's also possible that the recruiting process and college atmosphere has just passed him by. I think it's too early to tell. Hopefully by this time next year, we are having a different conversation about his recruiting. If not, it's probably fair to judge his efforts at that point. He'll either have us pointed in the right direction, or he won't.
 
#40
#40
IMO, you may be underestimating the way the Tennessee program is perceived nationally after the last 5 years. 4 coaches and 2 brushes with the NCAA, either directly or indirectly, is not a recipe for immediate success. Auburn and MSU were awful for a long time, but all they needed was a coach to convince players they could win. Barnes is tasked with not only that, but also fighting the perception that Tennessee is a renegade program with clown shoes leadership that will just be turning over that leadership continually. He has to establish a stable foundation of leadership and program integrity before high profile talent will consistently follow.

And it's also possible that the recruiting process and college atmosphere has just passed him by. I think it's too early to tell. Hopefully by this time next year, we are having a different conversation about his recruiting. If not, it's probably fair to judge his efforts at that point. He'll either have us pointed in the right direction, or he won't.

Surely you aren't suggesting miss state is on better footing that us......
 
#41
#41
Surely you aren't suggesting miss state is on better footing that us......

Institutionally speaking, sure they are. Don't get me wrong, Tennessee has much more to offer, more financial backing, and more tradition. But, we also are nationally viewed as a toxic program right now. 4 coaches in 6 years and 2 ties to NCAA investigations (3 if you count Texas investigation) is a lot to overcome in the living room of a prospect, even for the newest coach.

Mississippi State has to overcome a recent tradition of being a bad basketball team. A coach with Ben Howland's resumé can overcome that rather quickly. It's a much easier obstacle to navigate than what Barnes is facing at Tennessee.
 
#42
#42
Mississippi State has to overcome a recent tradition of being a bad basketball team. A coach with Ben Howland's resumé can overcome that rather quickly. It's a much easier obstacle to navigate than what Barnes is facing at Tennessee.

100% strongly disagree. You seem to be forgetting that howland has some pretty serious ghost in his resume closet
 
#43
#43
100% strongly disagree. You seem to be forgetting that howland has some pretty serious ghost in his resume closet

And Bruce Pearl just came off a three year show cause.

Neither Mississippi State nor Auburn are in better shape than Tennessee. I just don't buy this toxic program stuff. Heck, Rick Pitino was signing top classes in the middle of a blackmail trial which involved him, a waitress and former assistant.
 
#44
#44
I don't expect KY or Duke classes, but a Mississippi State or Auburn class would be nice. Both those guys got it going pretty good with top 100 guys right off the bat and Tennessee has a lot more to sell than either of those places.

I think Barnes will do fine, but it is a little disconcerting to see the level of prospect vs my own personal expectation. I really thought, and maybe I was delusional, that Tennessee would at least have a top 20/ top third of the SEC level class in Barnes' first shot at it. I didn't think he'd do as well as Pearl (that was a miracle with a sixth ranked class), but I didn't think top 20 would be too much to expect. The way it's looking now, unless Tennessee lands Blackwell, top 20 out of reach and you probably are looking at a similar class to the last two Cuonzo groups.

It was an okay class for the month or two he had to complete it. I mean give the guys some time. This class in 2016 isn't over either. We will have a top 30 class at the least. Pearl recruited the entire year at the barn and Miss State had a legacy PG commit to them. Just be patient as hard as it is to be sometimes.
 
#45
#45
100% strongly disagree. You seem to be forgetting that howland has some pretty serious ghost in his resume closet

Disagree if you want. What serious NCAA violations was Howland charged with? You seem to be forgetting the difference between being found guilty and being rumored to be guilty. As far as I know, Howland has a fairly clean slate with the NCAA despite what rumors you may have heard.
 
#46
#46
And Bruce Pearl just came off a three year show cause.

Neither Mississippi State nor Auburn are in better shape than Tennessee. I just don't buy this toxic program stuff. Heck, Rick Pitino was signing top classes in the middle of a blackmail trial which involved him, a waitress and former assistant.

I think we can agree that 4 coaches and 2 NCAA onvestigations in 6 years isn't the poster child for program stability. I also concede that Tennessee has more to offer in terms of money, facilities, tradition, etc, than either of those two programs.

I just don't think you can dismiss the difficulty of overcoming that natiobal perception. Comparing a top 10 all-time program like Louisville and Rick Pitino to Tennessee and Rick Barnes (who was fired, remember) just doesn't work for me. That's not fair at all, and his issues had nothing to do with the NCAA.

We can just disagree, and you can continue justifying your frustration with Barnes' recruiting.
 
#47
#47
I think we can agree that 4 coaches and 2 NCAA onvestigations in 6 years isn't the poster child for program stability. I also concede that Tennessee has more to offer in terms of money, facilities, tradition, etc, than either of those two programs.

I just don't think you can dismiss the difficulty of overcoming that natiobal perception. Comparing a top 10 all-time program like Louisville and Rick Pitino to Tennessee and Rick Barnes (who was fired, remember) just doesn't work for me. That's not fair at all, and his issues had nothing to do with the NCAA.

We can just disagree, and you can continue justifying your frustration with Barnes' recruiting.

We have had only 1 investigation involving our program. If you count the Tyndall stuff at USM then we will have had 3 investigations in this time period because you also would have to count the trouble at Texas while Coach Barnes was there.
 
#48
#48
We have had only 1 investigation involving our program. If you count the Tyndall stuff at USM then we will have had 3 investigations in this time period because you also would have to count the trouble at Texas while Coach Barnes was there.

I noted that in an earlier post. Tennessee has no direct ties to the Texas and USM investigations, but in many minds, we are getting unneeded bad press as a result of those investigations.
 
#49
#49
I noted that in an earlier post. Tennessee has no direct ties to the Texas and USM investigations, but in many minds, we are getting unneeded bad press as a result of those investigations.

Usm yes but so far the Texas thing has been very very little
 
#50
#50
I think we can agree that 4 coaches and 2 NCAA onvestigations in 6 years isn't the poster child for program stability. I also concede that Tennessee has more to offer in terms of money, facilities, tradition, etc, than either of those two programs.

I just don't think you can dismiss the difficulty of overcoming that natiobal perception. Comparing a top 10 all-time program like Louisville and Rick Pitino to Tennessee and Rick Barnes (who was fired, remember) just doesn't work for me. That's not fair at all, and his issues had nothing to do with the NCAA.

We can just disagree, and you can continue justifying your frustration with Barnes' recruiting.

Maybe I am looking through my orange tinted glasses too much, but Mississippi State is on its third coach in five years AND it's in Starkville, MS to boot. Ben Howland was fired, too and was out of work for three years. At least Barnes was scooped up immediately. And, probably just me, but what Pitino did would bother me - if I were the parent of a recruit - way more than anything Pearl or Tyndall did. I guess I just built up unrealistic expectation for Barnes based on his rep.
 

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