Ukraine Protests

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As many drones as you're willing to sacrifice for WWIII.

And regarding your first question, I would say either intimidation or a measure to allow him for more time to see whether or not he should move in on the pretext of a "humanitarian mission" and be ready should he decide to do so.

You can't see the new top secret ones on radar. :thumbsup:
 
That's because a bunch of Jews and a bunch of Arabs decided to "bloodbath" one another again.

I don't think that explains the lack of coverage. The ground invasion of Gaza and the downing of the Malaysian airliner occurred on the same day. You can argue that news coverage of the downing of MH17 has run its' course so the media shifted focus; but the fact is the downed airliner dominated the news coverage until Russia provided their evidence. The media has had time to report on the Ebola outbreak, the border crisis, and a host of other issues but barely a peep about questions concerning the airliner investigation.
 
I don't think that explains the lack of coverage. The ground invasion of Gaza and the downing of the Malaysian airliner occurred on the same day. You can argue that news coverage of the downing of MH17 has run its' course so the media shifted focus; but the fact is the downed airliner dominated the news coverage until Russia provided their evidence. The media has had time to report on the Ebola outbreak, the border crisis, and a host of other issues but barely a peep about questions concerning the airliner investigation.

Perhaps.

But what about the other plane that went down? Not MH 370, but the Ukrainian military An-26 that went down at the same time as MH 17? The one that idiot Girkin, Soviet Superman, tweeted he and his fellows of chaos had shot down at the same time, then promptly deleted? Why is no one covering that search? Oh, that's right. Because it was the MH 17 that they'd shot down and there was never any An-26.
 
There has been some talk about an emergency speech by Putin sometime tonight in Moscow but no confirmation yet.
 
Latest Ukrainian Intelligence News | The XX Committee

SBU claims that the shoot down of the jet was a Russian provocation gone wrong and the intended target was a Aeroflot jet carrying Russians and would have been use to justify invasion. Secondly the SBU claims the FSB is quietly planning the assassinations of the leadership of the rebel movement soon.
 
Latest Ukrainian Intelligence News | The XX Committee

SBU claims that the shoot down of the jet was a Russian provocation gone wrong and the intended target was a Aeroflot jet carrying Russians and would have been use to justify invasion. Secondly the SBU claims the FSB is quietly planning the assassinations of the leadership of the rebel movement soon.

Bombshellesque, if true. Supporting evidence unknown.
 
Wow... the western media propaganda is strong in this thread. So much faith in western govt media.

Nobody thinks the US media is dishonest or biased.

I don't dispute that at times the "western media" is biased and get things wrong. But there's a huge gap between acknowledging that shortcoming and accepting your odd worldview.
 
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I don't dispute that at times the "western media" is biased and get things wrong. But there's a huge gap between acknowledging that shortcoming and accepting your odd worldview.

Posting YouTube videos produced by Ruslan in his mother's basement in Omsk isn't exactly convincing proof about the Maidan.
 
Perhaps.

But what about the other plane that went down? Not MH 370, but the Ukrainian military An-26 that went down at the same time as MH 17? The one that idiot Girkin, Soviet Superman, tweeted he and his fellows of chaos had shot down at the same time, then promptly deleted? Why is no one covering that search? Oh, that's right. Because it was the MH 17 that they'd shot down and there was never any An-26.

Good point. And I agree that any commander that uses twitter is an idiot and should be relieved. First reports after an engagement are routinely unreliable and certainly shouldn't be transmitted on social media. Lets assume that the seperatists had the BUK and the radar system required to shoot down a plane at that altitude. The first report could have come from an Infantry guy that saw the plane shot down without ever checking with the missile battery. Then, idiot Girkin sent out his tweet and later retracted it.

I realize it's hypothetical and frankly my opinion doesn't matter, Putin just has to establish doubt in Europe (specifically Germany). I hope we're sharing better intel with our allies than what has been released to the public, because if I was Merkel, there better be more proof than social media.
 
Latest Ukrainian Intelligence News | The XX Committee

SBU claims that the shoot down of the jet was a Russian provocation gone wrong and the intended target was a Aeroflot jet carrying Russians and would have been use to justify invasion. Secondly the SBU claims the FSB is quietly planning the assassinations of the leadership of the rebel movement soon.

Thanks for the link. I don't know about the SBU intel, but that website looks like a good source of information.
 
Thanks for the link. I don't know about the SBU intel, but that website looks like a good source of information.

Yes it is. The man behind that page is John Schindler who is a professor at the Naval War College and former NSA/NAVSECGRU guy. He is a quality source of unbiased foreign policy/national security news/opinions. I recommend following his Twitter account (@20committee). :good!:
 
Wow... the western media propaganda is strong in this thread. So much faith in western govt media.

Nobody thinks the US media is dishonest or biased.

and you put your faith in what?????

the government owned, operated and funded media of Russia?

some blog of a guy that knows a guy that has a camera and is somewhere in eastern Europe but not Ukraine specifically?

Or the other new sources that reference wikipedia pages?

Before you come back with a snarky comment, I don't believe any of them, and try to read as many sources as I can, it takes a lot of time, and usually I can't keep up, too much reading not enough knowing.
 
Good point. And I agree that any commander that uses twitter is an idiot and should be relieved. First reports after an engagement are routinely unreliable and certainly shouldn't be transmitted on social media. Lets assume that the seperatists had the BUK and the radar system required to shoot down a plane at that altitude. The first report could have come from an Infantry guy that saw the plane shot down without ever checking with the missile battery. Then, idiot Girkin sent out his tweet and later retracted it.

I realize it's hypothetical and frankly my opinion doesn't matter, Putin just has to establish doubt in Europe (specifically Germany). I hope we're sharing better intel with our allies than what has been released to the public, because if I was Merkel, there better be more proof than social media.


Fair enough.
 
Latest Ukrainian Intelligence News | The XX Committee

SBU claims that the shoot down of the jet was a Russian provocation gone wrong and the intended target was a Aeroflot jet carrying Russians and would have been use to justify invasion. Secondly the SBU claims the FSB is quietly planning the assassinations of the leadership of the rebel movement soon.

Bombshellesque, if true. Supporting evidence unknown.

Yes, color me "skeptical." However, as I've said before, don't ever put anything past Putin or any Russian ruler, for that matter. Shaddiest *****es in history. They make American "black helicopters" look like mere child's play:

Russian apartment bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Alexander Litvinenko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Collaborating with Russian intelligence services has always ended badly for the collaborator. Anyways he just posted this update regarding the SBU claims

UPDATE/COMMENT: I’ve been getting a lot of questions about this remarkable claim by Kyiv, specifically: Where’s the hard evidence? I find this story to be plausible, given known Russian intelligence tradecraft, what they call konspiratsiya, but the evidence we’ve seen to date isn’t exactly rock solid (I won’t say “a slam dunk,” thank you very much). The SBU has set a high bar for itself with its aggressive, and highly successful, public outreach in recent months, including its own YouTube channel where it has posted a lot of nearly raw intelligence, mainly SIGINT (see the next story). That Kyiv has not done so here tells me one of three things is going on:

1. The SBU has access to high-level Kremlin SIGINT, meaning they have cracked top-grade Russian codes, and releasing that SIGINT would compromise a very valuable source that Kyiv very much needs right now.

2. The SBU has a high-placed HUMINT asset in the Kremlin camp and compromising that source by releasing too much information here would be stupid as war with Russia looms.

3. This is an analytically-derived conclusion, based on a lot of evidence from many sources, none of them conclusive alone but which, taken together, lead to a firm conclusion based on multi-INT analysis.
 
Another way to look at it is: If the Ukrainian SBU were looking to assassinate the seperatist leaders; a good way to deflect blame would be to release intelligence that implies Russia is planning assassinations of seperatist leaders.
 
Another way to look at it is: If the Ukrainian SBU were looking to assassinate the seperatist leaders; a good way to deflect blame would be to release intelligence that implies Russia is planning assassinations of seperatist leaders.

Another good way of looking at it is that the two nations are in a war and who gives a flying **** who kills who, particularly if they're foreign nationals.
 
Another way to look at it is: If the Ukrainian SBU were looking to assassinate the seperatist leaders; a good way to deflect blame would be to release intelligence that implies Russia is planning assassinations of seperatist leaders.

Maybe I don't understand your post but why would they have to deflect blame here? They are at war and the state reserves the right to kill or capture enemies of the state during times of war. I'm not sure any nation in the world would condemn them if they decided to assassinate these guys aside from Russia.
 
Also seems they've downed a medical helicopter and a MiG-29 in other actions today. Bad day to be Ukrainian combat pilots it seems.
 
Maybe I don't understand your post but why would they have to deflect blame here? They are at war and the state reserves the right to kill or capture enemies of the state during times of war. I'm not sure any nation in the world would condemn them if they decided to assassinate these guys aside from Russia.

By that same logic, why would Russia assassinate the seperatist leaders and blame the Ukraine. If the leaders are assassinated and the Ukrainians are blamed you've created a martyr. If the Russians are blamed, the rebellion likely dies.
 
By that same logic, why would Russia assassinate the seperatist leaders and blame the Ukraine. If the leaders are assassinated and the Ukrainians are blamed you've created a martyr. If the Russians are blamed, the rebellion likely dies.

I'm skeptical of the claims, like you. However, you're overthinking this. We're talking about Russians here. Russians. Not normal human beings. If you've ever studied WWII, you will see a bevy of top brass assassinations and internment among the Russian elite. Hell, Stalin had half his top generals removed, one way or the other, right before the war started. A costly mistake, but, then again, what's a life to a Russian? Just another walk in the park.

You should trust me. I've read a 600-page book on Russian history. I know things. :)
 
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