Ukraine Protests

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I saw that as well and thought of the worst possible scenario, your #2. Hopefully it's nothing like that.

Also, here's the video I was speaking about. I know you can't take every ones word for it, but still very interesting to see the divide and hear the speculation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k0t2eUqv3w&list=UUZaT_X_mc0BI-djXOlfhqWQ

Good video. Thanks for sharing. I especially appreciated the impromptu interruption by the drunk Russian man of the one particular interview with the psychologist. Some of them really are walking stereotypes.
 
What's the meaning of Putin putting 20,000 troops back at the Ukraine border?

How many drones would it take to level 20,00 troops from across the world as soon as they crossed the border?
 
What's the meaning of Putin putting 20,000 troops back at the Ukraine border?

How many drones would it take to level 20,00 troops from across the world as soon as they crossed the border?

As many drones as you're willing to sacrifice for WWIII.

And regarding your first question, I would say either intimidation or a measure to allow him for more time to see whether or not he should move in on the pretext of a "humanitarian mission" and be ready should he decide to do so.
 
As many drones as you're willing to sacrifice for WWIII.

And regarding your first question, I would say either intimidation or a measure to allow him for more time to see whether or not he should move in on the pretext of a "humanitarian mission" and be ready should he decide to do so.
So we instigate the problem in Ukraine, but somehow, we have the morale authority to now prevent Russia from coming in to stabilize the situation?

1024px-Secretary_Kerry_Meets_With_Ukrainian_Opposition_Leaders_in_Munich_%2812253362394%29.jpg
 
So we instigate the problem in Ukraine, but somehow, we have the morale authority to now prevent Russia from coming in to stabilize the situation?

1024px-Secretary_Kerry_Meets_With_Ukrainian_Opposition_Leaders_in_Munich_%2812253362394%29.jpg

So you're still flying with the CIA organized coup theory, huh? You're talking about the CIA, which is probably the most inept major intelligence agency in the world at the moment and has been for a decade or two now. Their agents can't even keep secret what they had for lunch in their cubicles anymore. Yet we're supposed to believe that they somehow organized a protests of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians against its corrupt, tyrannical (yet democratically elected, admittedly) govt., then forced this govt. to fire upon them, then forced this govt. to flee in the middle of the night without a proper impeachment proceeding, and then installed neo-Nazis in the govt., who accounted for all of 1% of the national vote (excluding the areas in the east of that country, where the REAL fascists kept the locals from participating in the vote).

And we're supposed to believe all this because of a Victoria Nuland phone call wherein she is stating what would be in the US's best interests should the Yany regime collapse, as it appears it was close to doing at that time.

And yet, we're not supposed to believe that Russia, an increasingly nationalistic country, whose upper brass are publicly known to be swayed by ultra-nationalist, REAL fascists like Alex Dugin and other "Le'ts get the band back together" Russian ultra-nationalists doesn't have any role in or responsibility for what's currently happening in Ukraine?

Now, I'm not suggesting that America, the EU, or NATO handled the post-Cold War era very well. To some extent, it pushed Russia (particularly Putin's Russia) to the side. In this sense, some of the reaction on the part of Russia is legitimate. On the other hand, Russia, particularly Putin's Russia, has never really shown strong signs of being a "normal" Western nation. Yes, Putin apparently even inquired about NATO membership, but what was NATO going to do? Accept a country that was fighting a bloody civil war against its on people in the Caucasus? Didn't really seem plausible. And under Putin, Russia has made no real strides towards liberal democracy; in fact, they have retreated further from such values.

But then again, you're no fan of liberal democracy, so I guess it's useless to argue with you concerning the legitimacy of Russia's stance in a "normal," rational international community.
 
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Furthermore, if Russia does "come in," it's not "coming in" to "stabilize" the situation. It's coming in to make sure that "Novorossiya" is never "Ukrainian" again.

And I don't know why I keep using quotations. Just felt appropriate for the moment.
 
Furthermore, if Russia does "come in," it's not "coming in" to "stabilize" the situation. It's coming in to make sure that "Novorossiya" is never "Ukrainian" again.

And I don't know why I keep using quotations. Just felt appropriate for the moment.

You are just Mister Grumpy Pants today aren't you? :)
 
So we instigate the problem in Ukraine, but somehow, we have the morale authority to now prevent Russia from coming in to stabilize the situation?

1024px-Secretary_Kerry_Meets_With_Ukrainian_Opposition_Leaders_in_Munich_%2812253362394%29.jpg

And another thing, I prefer not to be on the opposing side of a Vitali Klitschko right hook.
 
A wild and crazy thought to avert a Russo-Ukrainian war - The Washington Post

This is troubling.

The Russians do have a history of invading in August . . . .

The author's argument in the Washington Post article is certainly worth considering. Yet, what happens once peacekeepers are there? You have to believe Russia will be clamoring for its proxies in the east to have strong decentralization from Kiev. Meanwhile, Kiev doesn't want Russia dictating how it should run its country any longer. The author's argument just seems a bit too "and then what?" to be plausible, although it is a nice thought.

And regarding the second link, well, those are just "local self-defense forces" in waiting.
 
So we instigate the problem in Ukraine, but somehow, we have the morale authority to now prevent Russia from coming in to stabilize the situation?

1024px-Secretary_Kerry_Meets_With_Ukrainian_Opposition_Leaders_in_Munich_%2812253362394%29.jpg

I admire your dedication to the cause but the only country doing any sort of destabilization is the Russians. The Kremlin needs to understand they no longer control the ex-republics nor do they have any further say in the affairs of those new sovereign countries.
 
If Putin Invades Ukraine … | The XX Committee

Here is a great source of info on national security/foreign policy items (also follow his Twitter account @20committee). Some highlights of the article;

Latest information indicates that these battle-groups are drawn from Russia’s best ground forces: the 4th Tank and 2nd Motorized Rifle Divisions, the 76th and 106th Airborne (VDV) Divisions and the 31st VDV Brigade, the 23rd Motor Rifle Brigade, plus unidentified units of Naval Infantry (i.e. Marines), and experienced GRU special forces (SPETSNAZ). Many of these units contributed to the Kremlin’s near-bloodless seizure of the Crimea in the spring and should be considered the best that Russia has. Most of these combat units are composed of professionals, not conscripts, and Ukraine’s improvised forces are by and large no match for them.

Nevertheless, Russia has a long habit of invading places in August — East Prussia and Galicia (1914), Poland (1920), Manchuria (1945), Czechoslovakia (1968), and Georgia (2008) — so all bets may be off.
 
It's wild because it seems a huge % of Crimea and Donetsk are pro Russian, Kyiv is loyal to Ukraine, with a little bit of the opposite sprinkled in both areas. But both sick and tired of the current government. Just a mess.

It seems if Putin wanted to invade Ukraine, he'd have the ability because of the support he will have inside of Ukraine. I don't think a complete invasion is out of the question at this point.
 
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It's wild because it seems a huge % of Crimea and Donetsk are pro Russian, Kyiv is loyal to Ukraine, with a little bit of the opposite sprinkled in both areas. But both sick and tired of the current government. Just a mess.

It seems if Putin wanted to invade Ukraine, he'd have the ability because of the support he will have inside of Ukraine. I don't think a complete invasion is out of the question at this point.

The vast majority of his "support" is coming from people with the business end of a rifle being pointed at them and their families.
 
The vast majority of his "support" is coming from people with the business end of a rifle being pointed at them and their families.

Just from seeing some of the protest back in APril, those areas look like there was a lot of support for Russia and Putin in those areas, without guns
 
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Just from seeing some of the protest back in APril, those areas look like there was a lot of support for Russia and Putin in those areas, without guns

That was in April, the people saw what these guys were doing to rebel held towns since then. Russian popular support isn't as great as Moscow tries to show it is.
 
That was in April, the people saw what these guys were doing to rebel held towns since then. Russian popular support isn't as great as Moscow tries to show it is.

So you believe that support back then has turned around? That they no longer wish to be a part of Russia?

I'm honestly just asking, no sarcasm, I'm honestly trying to get a pulse on this whole thing. I've missed a lot
 
I don't feel like taking the time to look for them and to post this at the moment (preoccupied with an article), but I've seen multiple polls that suggest that around 2/3rds of eastern Ukraine supports remaining with the Kiev govt. Take it for what it's worth.
 
Earlier ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine saw what happened in Crimea, and heard promises being floated from Russia (e.g., higher pensions), and thought that was probably a good deal.

I suspect with the mess that has since been created, a number of those have had a change of heart regarding the "movement."
 
Wow... the western media propaganda is strong in this thread. So much faith in western govt media.

Nobody thinks the US media is dishonest or biased.
 
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