Law school

#1
joelkthx

joelkthx

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#1
Fellas, looking for anyone's experience / opinions input here.

I'm considering going back to school to get a law degree. I'm not sure if I would want to practice at a firm or do something in the corporate world... or maybe not even practice law at all. I just think it would be good to have as I try to advance my career.

It wouldn't be such a big deal except that I waited until I have 2 kids (4 year old and a 2 month old) to do it. Also, I'm in Chattanooga so I would have to drive somewhere. Moving is out of the question due to my wife's job. I've looked at Nashville school of law, where you can drive in in the evenings either 2-3 nights per week. It would be 4 years to complete.. but one of the positives, I guess, I that it's not terribly expensive compared to other law schools.

Any of you that are attorneys or otherwise that have any advice would be appreciated. I'm not 100% set on law school... but I want to do something that puts me in a position to make more money. Thoughts?
 
#2
#2
joelkthx said:
Fellas, looking for anyone's experience / opinions input here.

I'm considering going back to school to get a law degree. I'm not sure if I would want to practice at a firm or do something in the corporate world... or maybe not even practice law at all. I just think it would be good to have as I try to advance my career.

It wouldn't be such a big deal except that I waited until I have 2 kids (4 year old and a 2 month old) to do it. Also, I'm in Chattanooga so I would have to drive somewhere. Moving is out of the question due to my wife's job. I've looked at Nashville school of law, where you can drive in in the evenings either 2-3 nights per week. It would be 4 years to complete.. but one of the positives, I guess, I that it's not terribly expensive compared to other law schools.

Any of you that are attorneys or otherwise that have any advice would be appreciated. I'm not 100% set on law school... but I want to do something that puts me in a position to make more money. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Don't go to law school if you aren't sure. Lots of money and time to waste if you don't practice law.

I'm not sure what you do now or what you make, but don't expect out of law school to make big bucks.
 
#3
#3
I would think am MBA would be better if you're not positive about actually practicing law.
 
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#4
#4
My best friend just graduated from NYU law and now he hates the law doesn't want to practice, and even if he did, there are too many lawyers right now (according to him and other friends who graduated law school). It's a big investment and probably a bad one if you don't have a clear plan.
 
#5
#5
I need a lawyer right now to file a simple document. They want $250/hour. Seems like there is a shortage of them in Knoxville.
 
#6
#6
Thanks for the feedback so far.

I probably should have mentioned also - I'll be finished with my MBA in August.

utvolpj - I see your point about the MBA vs. JD... but I also see A LOT of people in really high up positions that happen to have a JD but are not practicing as an attorney. Does that make sense?

volwindy - I don't care to tell. I make about 50,000 / year now. I work at a large insurance company. I don't really know what I can leverage that into 5 years from now... but I just thought it would be higher 5 years from now with a law degree. :hmm:

n_huffines - thanks for sharing, good to know.

thunder good-oil - one of my other thoughts. Maybe could do side work like this small stuff and make decent money without working for a firm.
 
#7
#7
volwindy said:
Don't go to law school if you aren't sure. Lots of money and time to waste if you don't practice law.

I'm not sure what you do now or what you make, but don't expect out of law school to make big bucks.
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Forgot to mention this - the money isn't really a concern, its more just the time. The tuition would be mostly reimbursed by my employer and my out of pocket truly wouldn't be that bad.
 
#8
#8
There are so many people who get into the law school or complete law school that realize they don't want to be law (and the law market is fairly saturated).

Unless you have a contract with your employer for expenses and a job within the company once you're done, I would not advise you going down that path. Your heart doesn't seem to be there.

As PJ mentioned, you might be more interested in an MBA.
 
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#10
#10
It doesn't sound like you want to go anywhere other than NSL as you have an established job and family. The ability to keep working is why the night school is so popular. NSL is also very affordable (less than $7k/year).

However, I fear you don't actually appreciate the commitment work plus school plus family plus travel truly is. If this isn't something that needs to be done for your career, enjoy where you are. The law field is incredibly saturated. And thousands upon thousands of more attorneys join the market every year.

If you decide to go, good luck. 4 years isn't that much longer than 3...and you can keep your day job. In hindsight, you may have simply wanted to do UTs joint MBA-JD program. It was only 4 years as well, iirc.
 
#11
#11
My wife just finished her last year of law school at Vanderbilt. She hasn't had a life in 3 years. From what I've witnessed, it's extremely difficult and time consuming. I'll let you know if it's worth it in a couple of years.
 
#12
#12
I think I agree with almost everyone that has posted in this thread. Next month will be exactly 10 years since graduating from law school. Would I do it again? Maybe not.

I have actually enjoyed what I have done- been a criminal defense attorney the entire time. It has been challenging and certainly not boring.

But, I agree that if you don't know if you will use it, then don't go. I don't know what you want to do, but law school will change your way of thinking the rest of your life. It just does. My Dad was in an executive position at a big public company and said people with legal degrees were not good managers because they could not make quick decisions- they analyzed too much.

You can certainly make a better living with a law degree with what you are making now, but other posters are correct that the market is saturated. My law school has cut back on incoming classes because they wanted graduates to get jobs. Also, the downturn in the market several years ago also effected the legal field, too. I make a good living but not wealthy. Some people think all lawyers are wealthy, and that certainly isn't true. It is a worthy profession, but it can be stressful just like any other job.
 
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#13
#13
One of my friends just passed the bar after finishing up at NSL. He literally had no free time for four years. He had a job but didn't have kids and lives in Nashville. He got a clerical type job at a law firm in his last year there. When he was prepping for the bar they basically paid him to study, and he literally spent 12+ hours in the library a day for multiple months.

All that is to say that it's going to be a huge time commitment.
 
#14
#14
fwiw I don't recommend trying to just buy your way into law school, in case your friend is trying to do that because he's such a successful businessman
 
#15
#15
crusse10 said:
fwiw I don't recommend trying to just buy your way into law school, in case your friend is trying to do that because he's such a successful businessman
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not sure where this is coming from. you have misread something, though.
 
#16
#16
Thanks everyone. I appreciate the input.

I've read and took in your comments... and I'm still not convinced that my career prospects wouldn't significantly improve 4 years from now, if I were to do it.

Several mentioned the time commitment it would take and I certainly realize its no joke. However, I have talked to two people I know that have graduated from NSL (one in 2011 and one in 2014) and passed the bar. I got pretty different answers as far as the workload and time commitment. Aside from the driving and class time (which would truly suck, I know), one of them said they spent 10-14 hours per week outside of class studying. The other said essentially no extra time outside of class, except before finals there would be lots of cramming. Then they both said they crammed before the bar... one for several hours per day for a few weeks, one for 2-3 weeks, all day.

The biggest thing I struggle with is the idea that for 2-3 nights per week, I wouldn't see my family. I think that is why I am leaning toward not doing it at this time. Some people who travel for their jobs or for other reasons probably see their families less than that... but for me it just doesn't sit well. I don't think I can do it. And there is no law school in Chattanooga, and no other schools besides NSL that offer classes at night. So I suppose the logistics of doing it almost make the decision for me. I still think it would increase my marketability and income tremendously, but it would be a stretch for me to actually complete.
 
#18
#18
joelkthx said:
Thanks everyone. I appreciate the input.

I've read and took in your comments... and I'm still not convinced that my career prospects wouldn't significantly improve 4 years from now, if I were to do it.

Several mentioned the time commitment it would take and I certainly realize its no joke. However, I have talked to two people I know that have graduated from NSL (one in 2011 and one in 2014) and passed the bar. I got pretty different answers as far as the workload and time commitment. Aside from the driving and class time (which would truly suck, I know), one of them said they spent 10-14 hours per week outside of class studying. The other said essentially no extra time outside of class, except before finals there would be lots of cramming. Then they both said they crammed before the bar... one for several hours per day for a few weeks, one for 2-3 weeks, all day.

The biggest thing I struggle with is the idea that for 2-3 nights per week, I wouldn't see my family. I think that is why I am leaning toward not doing it at this time. Some people who travel for their jobs or for other reasons probably see their families less than that... but for me it just doesn't sit well. I don't think I can do it. And there is no law school in Chattanooga, and no other schools besides NSL that offer classes at night. So I suppose the logistics of doing it almost make the decision for me. I still think it would increase my marketability and income tremendously, but it would be a stretch for me to actually complete.
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One thing with law school it's that your class rank is a really big deal and goes a long way towards helping you land a good job and upping your salary. That could explain the variation in time commitment. You can probably finish everything without spending a huge amount of time outside of class, but it would hurt your chances of finishing near the to of your class.
 
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#19
#19
jjay2518 said:
One thing with law school it's that your class rank is a really big deal and goes a long way towards helping you land a good job and upping your salary. That could explain the variation in time commitment. You can probably finish everything without spending a huge amount of time outside of class, but it would hurt your chances of finishing near the to of your class.
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Gotcha. Thanks. Although if you get a job in a corporate setting (maybe just changing departments at the same company where I am now), I'm assuming that wouldn't matter as much. Also I've heard in the legal world, getting a job is more who you know. would you say that is true?
 
#22
#22
I considered law school as well as an MBA. My pursuit of a law degree would have been to teach. In your stage in life (and mine), with a wife and kids, trying to begin a career in law isn't advisable.

As has been mentioned, the market is saturated, and it's all based on billable hours. In other words, the long hours/not seeing your family won't stop after law school. And if you look at starting salaries, as has been mentioned, being at the top of your class at a reputable school is very important.

If you'd be doing it to advance in your current company, I'd want a commitment from them/clear path laid out before enrolling.

If you're about to finish with your MBA (I think I read that somewhere in this thread), see where that gets you first. The MBA is far more marketable. If you're thinking of changing careers, an excellent resume which highlights your strengths and experience combined with the MBA are going to be far more valuable than a JD.

Blanket disclaimer: this is all obviously just my opinion.
 
#23
#23
joelkthx said:
Gotcha. Thanks. Although if you get a job in a corporate setting (maybe just changing departments at the same company where I am now), I'm assuming that wouldn't matter as much. Also I've heard in the legal world, getting a job is more who you know. would you say that is true?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have no idea how that would play out in the setting you're talking about. It might be more of a "just get it done" type thing.

I have basically no firsthand knowledge of this stuff. Just repeating what my good friend who just finished up law school had told me. I know I've read multiple times that something like half (maybe not quite that big of a percentage) of new law school grads have trouble finding a job. So basically, you either need to place near the top of your class or know someone like you said.
 
#24
#24
NSL would be the way to go if I were you. Especially if you plan to stay in TN. You can pay your tuition as you go and will graduate with zero loans. The school you go to doesn't really matter unless you are shooting for one of the big uppity firms.
 
#25
#25
I went to law school because i felt the degree would open doors. I graduated from utk right after the dotcom bust and there was no real market for inexperienced graduates. I practiced law for 2 years in real estate. Worked with numerous developers then went into the business side of commercial real estate development full time. That said, i had no kids or other meaningful obligations. To be successful, you have to really go all in and its time consuming. Night school is an option but will take 4-5 years.

Its been a cyclical time and law school enrollment is way down in many areas. So by graduating in a few years there may be a lack of supply and the rewards could be good. In baltimore a first year associate makes around 120-135k a year at a decent size firm. Smaller firms are 80-100k. So the cost of the degree is generally considered a good investment. I have no clue what the market is like in tn.

Id also consider a brokerage license for residential real estate. Its not time consuming and that cycle may come back in a meaningful way in the next year or so. People have begun saving like never before and will have money for down payments, which has historically been the main barrier from home ownership. But im speculating based on my opinion with little data.

Either way, best of luck.
 
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