Andrew Hacker: Is Algebra Necessary?

[volinbham]

Originally Posted by beergood

I actually have a young apprentice working for me that cant divide fractions. He just graduated high school. Makes me wonder what they are teaching these kids over there...

I've forgotten how to divide fractions but I'm sure I could figure it out (Google) if I needed it.

OTOH - I think basic algebra is a pretty important tool that just about anyone uses; mostly without knowing they are doing it.

[Thrasher865]

Originally Posted by MWR

Could be an apprentice carpenter.

True story. I hung drywall back in the 80s. I started out as an apprentice and became a 'journeyman'. I was by no means the best there ever was, but while some of the other hangers struggled with complex cuts such as bay windows, angles and arcs, etc. I could make them. And more importantly in "piece work", I could do them quickly. Because of the difficulty of these complex cuts, you bid the job higher. And if you can do them quickly, you do well on that job.

Just an example of the algebra I took in high school being put to use.

I'm confused. Are you saying you used algebra in bidding the jobs, or in making complex cuts?

[Thrasher865]

Originally Posted by CubsFanTN

Completely agree. I learned more in Algebra about deductive and inductive reasoning than I did about crunching numbers.

Explain?

[Scotty's Flat Top]

Thoughts on statistics?

[Thrasher865]

Statistics is definitely more specialized. Still useful, but probably not to anyone working with just a high-school diploma.

I think we should definitely teach rudimentary probabilities in high school. Then terminology like mean, median, mode, standard deviation, etc. Stop there, though. No hypothesis testing or anything.

[justingroves]

Originally Posted by Thrasher865

I'm confused. Are you saying you used algebra in bidding the jobs, or in making complex cuts?

You can use it for both

[Thrasher865]

Originally Posted by justingroves

You can use it for both

You can, but you certainly don't need it for making those cuts. There are plenty of techniques that would work just as well and probably be faster, I'm sure.

[Scotty's Flat Top]

Agreed.. stats came easier to me than Algebra. I use some of the principles from time to time but Algebra is used almost daily.. most cases without even realizing it.. as is the case for those who say that never use algebra

[GmanTN]

People also struggle figuring tips and if something retails for $40 and it is 15% off what the price would be....simple math and people get confused.

[BigPapaVol]

Originally Posted by GmanTN

I blame schools for allowing students to use calculators, students now don't know how to write a math problem on paper and work it out. To me it is a classic case of where technology has actually hurt the student from learning.

calculators really aren't the problem when we're talking about using logic to solve for variables. Understanding both sides of an equality / inequality are basic concepts in algebra and have nothing to do with math functions.

I'd argue that everyone needs basic algebraic and geometric understanding at some point.

[rjd970]

Used a 2nd order differential equation at work this morning. Fun.


...also, I thought this was funny. I used a rest stop bathroom last week and someone had derived the quadratic formula on the wall. Just don't expect to see something like that on a public restroom wall in the middle of nowhere.

[MWR]

Originally Posted by Thrasher865

I'm confused. Are you saying you used algebra in bidding the jobs, or in making complex cuts?

Originally Posted by Thrasher865

You can, but you certainly don't need it for making those cuts. There are plenty of techniques that would work just as well and probably be faster, I'm sure.

Now you've got me curious. So I'll ask you this.

Here you go. You walk into the job Monday morning at 7:00 am and the boss tells you to hang drywall on the ceiling of this bay window. Tell me about just one of your several techniques to make this cut in one piece.

[Thrasher865]

I don't know. I'm not a drywall hanger.

[MWR]

Originally Posted by Thrasher865

I don't know. I'm not a drywall hanger.

You don't have to be a drywall hanger, this is about measuring. You could be measuring anything that had some complexity to it.

You said algebra wasn't needed for making these cuts and that you were sure there plenty of better techniques that would work just as well and probably be faster.

And in the real world, it's not like you have all day to get this done. There are two men on the clock, you and your helper, while this piece is getting cut.

[Weezy]

Originally Posted by volinbham

I've forgotten how to divide fractions but I'm sure I could figure it out (Google) if I needed it.

OTOH - I think basic algebra is a pretty important tool that just about anyone uses; mostly without knowing they are doing it.

son, I am disappoint.