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Old 03-04-2009, 03:32 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Just bought band of brothers wow what a great look at WWII.
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:34 PM   #92 (permalink)
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You can buy M-1 Garand's from the gov't for a reasonable price.

If you have the money, you can buy any weapon from World War II.
WOW I would love to, about 1200. you think?
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:43 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Interesting facts!
On US artillery:

One of the most deadly tactics employed was the time-on-target (TOT) concentration. A TOT massed fires from several battalions onto a selected target and calculated the times of flight for the shells from each battery so that they all arrived on target at nearly the same instant (a similar tactic, called a "Stonk", had been developed independently by the Royal Artillery in North Africa).
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:44 PM   #94 (permalink)
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In Hitler's Henchmen Dr. Henk van Capelle and Dr. Peter van de Bovenkamp tell how Henriette von Schirach in 1943 was invited to the Netherlands by friends in the German occupation forces. She witnessed a frightful scene in Amsterdam: a crowd of scared Jewish women with bundles brutally being rounded up for deportation.

She was shocked and asked her friends for an explanation. She later recalled: "I was told that Jewish women were being deported and didn't I know about it? .. My friends advised me to take the matter up with Hitler himself .."

Henriette broke off her visit to the Netherlands, and telephoned the Berghof to make an appointment with Hitler: "It was a splendid, somewhat sultry fall evening when we joined the regular company by the large open fire at the Berghof. I was still confused and had thought out no plan for the manner in which I would approach Hitler .. Long after midnight Hitler turned to me and asked in a friendly tone: You have just come back from Holland, have you not?"

Henriette presumed on her long friendship with Hitler to describe what she had witnessed in Amsterdam: "Although I had already had a double cognac, the moment still came totally unexpectedly. I took a deep breath and answered: Yes, that is why I am here. I wanted to speak to you about some terrible things I saw; I cannot believe that you know about them. Helpless women were being rounded up and driven together to be sent off to a concentration camp and I think that they will never return."

"A painful stillness fell; all color had left Hitler's face. His face looked like a death mask in the light of the flames. He looked at me aghast and at the same time surprised and said: We are at war. He very cautiously stood up .. At that moment he screamed at me: You are sentimental, Frau von Schirach! You have to learn to hate! What have Jewish women in Holland got to do with you?"

"The rest of the company were quite as mice. Nobody looked at me. I walked out of the room and once in the vestibule I began to run. One of Hitler's adjutants came running after me. The Führer was furious. I was asked to leave the Obersalzberg immediately."

Henriette von Schirach and her husband were never invited again ...
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Old 03-04-2009, 04:14 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Read up on the battle of Stalingrad sometime.

Mercy, that will churn your stomach.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:00 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Read up on the battle of Stalingrad sometime.

Mercy, that will churn your stomach.
Yep grusome stuff, men cramed into open pits coverd by tarps trying to keep warm, laying on top of each other, all mixed in. The sic, wounded and already dead. To weak or to cold to go relieve themselves, what misery it must have been.
After reading that book its very easy to see why we should not have women in combat.
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:36 AM   #97 (permalink)
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Yep grusome stuff, men cramed into open pits coverd by tarps trying to keep warm, laying on top of each other, all mixed in. The sic, wounded and already dead. To weak or to cold to go relieve themselves, what misery it must have been.
After reading that book its very easy to see why we should not have women in combat.
The Germans adopting flame throwers to get the snipers out of the sewers is also a nasty party of this battle.
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:39 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Read up on the battle of Stalingrad sometime.

Mercy, that will churn your stomach.
I recommend watching "Stalingrad" (1993).
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:42 AM   #99 (permalink)
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I recommend watching "Stalingrad" (1993).
Enemy at the Gates is not too shabby either.

Especially the soilders being hurried across the Volga then handed an empty rifle and their "partner" being handed a cartridge of rounds.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:17 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Read up on the battle of Stalingrad sometime.

Mercy, that will churn your stomach.
I've read stories about German and Russian troops caught in the blizzards while doing battle in Russia. Men would cut flesh right off of the horses pulling gear. The horses were so numb from the cold and frost bite they never felt the blade, they didn't bleed because the blood was semi congealed.

Men driven half crazy from the cold stripping off boots and clothing. If a man stopped moving in most cases they died. Many accounts of canibalism.
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:06 PM   #101 (permalink)
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I've read stories about German and Russian troops caught in the blizzards while doing battle in Russia. Men would cut flesh right off of the horses pulling gear. The horses were so numb from the cold and frost bite they never felt the blade, they didn't bleed because the blood was semi congealed.

Men driven half crazy from the cold stripping off boots and clothing. If a man stopped moving in most cases they died. Many accounts of canibalism.
Remember, you are talking about a total of 50 million losing their lives across the board on the Eastern front.
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:48 PM   #102 (permalink)
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I've read stories about German and Russian troops caught in the blizzards while doing battle in Russia. Men would cut flesh right off of the horses pulling gear. The horses were so numb from the cold and frost bite they never felt the blade, they didn't bleed because the blood was semi congealed.

Men driven half crazy from the cold stripping off boots and clothing. If a man stopped moving in most cases they died. Many accounts of canibalism.
One of the most easily overlooked, yet momentous short wars of the 20th century was the swift-moving clash between the post-World War I Polish Republic and Russia’s brand-new Bolshevik regime of Vladimir Ilyich Lenin. Reaching a climax during the summer of 1920, the Russo-Polish War is often regarded as the final episode of the Russian Civil War. In fact, it was much more.

(Lenin wanted to capture Europe as far west as Paris with his international socialist movement.)

The roots of the war ran deep. For a century and a quarter, the once-formidable Polish nation was a political nonentity, having been dismembered by Prussia, Austria and Russia in the infamous partitions of 1772, 1793 and 1795. Three national insurrections had failed to dislodge the occupying powers; severe Germanization and Russification efforts, aimed at the destruction of the Polish language and culture, were imposed upon the population during the 19th century. Although such campaigns had little effect, by the turn of the century only the most optimistic Polish patriots could still dream of independence.

Yet World War I provided exactly the right set of circumstances for the Poles. On November 6, 1916, Austria-Hungary and Germany, in a desperate bid to ensure the loyalty of their Polish populations, jointly agreed to the formation of a semi-autonomous ‘Kingdom of Poland.’

On October 7, 1918, with the Central Powers clearly on the brink of defeat, the Regency Council in Warsaw declared Polish independence. After the guns of war fell silent on November 11, the three torn pieces of the Polish nation were triumphantly reunited.

The result was the treaty of Riga, signed on March 18, 1921, in the Latvian capital. Poland received a significant portion of her pre-partition frontiers, including the city of Lwow, and took possession of territories inhabited by about 12 million Lithuanians, White Russians and Ukrainians.

Something you won't ever read about in history books presented to American school children.


Little remembered in the West, the Battle of Warsaw was in fact one of the most significant land engagements of the 20th century. Strategically, it reversed an ideological onslaught that might otherwise have carried Soviet Communism into Western Europe in 1920 — and eventuality the consequences of which can only be imagined by posterity. Militarily, the sudden counterattack by which Pilsudski and his lieutenants split and routed the Bolshevik forces — themselves led by one of the enemy’s most brilliant generals — deserves a place among the tactical masterpieces of history.

Poland stopped on itself the full brunt of the Red Army and defeated an idea of the “export of the revolution.” Communist time table was slowed 24 years and countries of the Central Europe were spared from communist rule for a quarter of a century.

Unfortunately, political and military significance of this victory was never fully appreciated by Europeans.

Unfortunately also, less that twenty years later, the national socialists of Hitler and the communists of Stalin agreed to partition Poland.
---------------------------------------------
Today we celebrate Nov 11th, (my mothers birthday) as Veterans Day but fighting continued across the Russian Empire and also in parts of the Ottoman Empire.

On November 11, 1918, Armistice Day, the American Expeditionary Forces (AEF) on the Western Front in France suffered more than thirty-five hundred casualties, although it had been known unofficially for two days that the fighting would end that day and known with absolute certainty as of 5 o’clock that morning that it would end at 11 a.m.

Nearly a year afterward, on November 5, 1919, General John J. Pershing, commander of the AEF, found himself testifying on the efficiency of the war’s prosecution before the House of Representatives Committee on Military Affairs.

The encounter was amicable and respectful since members were dealing with the officer who had led America to victory in the Great War. However, a Republican committee member, Alvan T. Fuller of Massachusetts, deferentially posed a provocative query: ‘This question is somewhat irrelevant to the matter under discussion,’ Fuller began, ‘but I would like to ask General Pershing if American troops were ordered over the top on the other side on the morning of the day when under the terms of the Armistice firing was to cease…and that those troops who were not killed or wounded marched peacefully into Germany at 11 o’clock. Is that true?’

Pershing answered with his customary crisp confidence:

"When the subject of the armistice was under discussion we did not know what the purpose of it was definitely, whether it was something proposed by the German High Command to gain time or whether they were sincere in their desire to have an armistice; and the mere discussion of an armistice would not be sufficient grounds for any judicious commander to relax his military activities….No one could possibly know when the armistice was to be signed, or what hour be fixed for the cessation of hostilities so that the only thing for us to do, and which I did as commander in chief of the American forces, and which Marshal Foch did as commander in chief of the Allied armies was to continue the military activities…."

Just days later, however, the congressman forwarded to Pershing a letter from a constituent with a cover note saying, ‘I have been deluged with questions on this subject.’ The enclosed letter had been written to Fuller by George K. Livermore, former operations officer of the 167th Field Artillery Brigade of the black 92nd Division, stating that that force had been engaged since 5 a.m. on November 11 and had been ordered to launch its final charge at 10:30 a.m. Livermore lamented ‘the little crosses over the graves of the colored lads who died a useless death on that November morning.’ He further described the loss of U.S. Marines killed crossing the Meuse River in the final hours as ‘frightful.’ Congressman Fuller closed his letter to Pershing asking for ‘a real frank, full answer to the question as to whether American lives were needlessly wasted."

The Germans were completely deceived by Woodrow Wilson who they thought was a man of his word but found him to be a complete and total liar in every respect and his 14 point peace plan was no more than a contract for another war in disguise.

Henry Gunther as the last American killed in the war.

In Centennial Park in Nashville there is a plaque commemorating the first American killed in WWI (fighting under the American flag, others had already fought under the Canadian flag), it was donated by a class of Catholic school girls and reads something like this; Captain ???? led 250 men out of the trenches into machine gun, mortar and rifle fire and returned with five men, later in the day he was killed by an incoming artillery round.

Have you ever read of Pershing's prosecution of American WWI veterans in Washington DC??? The man should be dug up and hung from a street lamp/
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:01 PM   #103 (permalink)
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While there is no debate that the conditions set at the conclusion of WWI made WWII inevitable, I don't think Wilson consciously knew that. He may have been a liar, but he couldn't "disguise" a contract for another war, if he was ignorant to that being the unshakable course of events. Reviewing history from present to the past can play tricks, if one lets it.
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:08 PM   #104 (permalink)
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The picture above is of the Camp O'Donnell Memorial Monument. The memorial was built by the organization known as "The Battling Bastards of Bataan" to honor those American men who died at Camp O'Donnell, while prisoners of the Japanese.

The monument is located in the Capas National Shrine, in Capas, Tarlac, Philippines,adjacent to the memorial for the Philippine Army dead. Camp O'Donnell was the first prison camp for the men who survived the "Death March". The picture was taken by James Litton.

The "Cross" was built as a memorial to the thousands who died in that camp. It is as much a part of Bataan as the participants in that battle. The inscription on the base of the "Cross" reads "Omnia Pro Patria": All For Country. On the wall behind the "Cross" are inscribed the names of the men who died at Camp O'Donnell.

The original "Cement Cross" is now on display in the National Prisoner of War Museum, at the Andersonville National Historic Site, Andersonville, GA. It was brought to this country by Bataan survivors.
This is a great pic, gsvol. Thanks for linking it.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:42 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Remember, you are talking about a total of 50 million losing their lives across the board on the Eastern front.
And even after what we Americans thought was the end of the war, the slaughter continued.

Due to the communist/socialist aspect of the FDR administration and highly placed communist agents in British intelligence, Tito was placed in power in the artificially manufactured county called "Yugolsavia" which included Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Herzegovinia and Macedonia.

The second most number of deaths in Nazi concentration camps was in a camp in Croatia.

Tito didn't shut that camp down but kept it running for six more years after the end of WWII until political pressure had him move his gulag to an island in the Adriatic. The victims were political dissidents, mostly Serbs who had been our steadfast allies throughout the two world wars.

It is important to stress that the plight of German civilians in the Balkans is only a small portion of the Allied topography of death.

Seven to eight million Germans -- both military personnel and civilians -- died during and after World War II. Half of those perished during the final months of the war, or after Germany’s unconditional surrender on May 8, 1945. (It was FDR's bright idea that there could be no end to the war other than unconditional surrender back in 1943 and even though Hirohito offered to surrender Truman dropped the bombs and only accepted peace after the USSR was allowed to declare war on Japan.)

German casualties, both civilian and military, were
arguably higher in "peace” than in "war.”

In the months before and after the end of World War II,
ethnic Germans were killed, tortured and dispossessed throughout eastern and central Europe, notably in Silesia, East Prussia, Pomerania, the Sudetenland, and the “Wartheland” region. Altogether 12-15 million Germans fled or were driven from their homes in what is perhaps the greatest “ethnic cleansing” in history.

Of this number, more than two million were
killed or otherwise lost their lives. [14]

The grim events in postwar Yugoslavia are rarely dealt with in the media of the countries that emerged on the ruins of communist Yugoslavia, even though, remarkably, there is today greater freedom of expression and historical research there than in such western European countries as Germany and France. The elites of Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia, largely made up of former Communists, seem to share a common interest in repressing their sometimes murky and criminal past with regard to the postwar treatment of German civilians.

As already noted, “ethnic cleansing” is nothing new. Even if one regards the former Serb-Yu*goslav leader Slobodan Milosevic and the other defendants being tried by the International War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague as wicked criminals, their crimes are trivial compared to those of Communist Yugoslavia’s founder, Josip Broz Tito.

Tito carried out “ethnic cleansing” and mass killings on a far greater scale, against Croats, Germans and Serbs, and with the sanction of the British and American governments. His rule in Yugoslavia (1945-1980), which coincided with the “Cold War” era, was generally supported by the Western powers, who regarded his regime as a factor of stability in this often unstable region of Europe. [15]
-------------------

The largest settlement in the southern part
of the Banat, located at the estuary of the rivers Temesch and Donau, lies the city of Pantschowa. It is one of the oldest settlements in the area.

Together with the Germans, other nationalities had made their homes there, i.e. Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians, Slovaks, and others. For over 200 years they all had co-existed in peace.

Due to their efficiency and inborn diligence, albeit living under a foreign government, most of the Germans were able to prosper quite nicely, and managed to accumulate a fair amount of personal wealth, primarily in agricultural endeavors.

Pantschowa had by the beginning of Second World War over 25,000 residents. Besides the already mentioned other ethnicities over 12,000 of them were Germans.

The town's prestige and economic boom was primarily owed to these Germans. It grew to an economic center, from where goods were transported via hundreds of Donauschleppern (large, flat bottom boats) up and down the Donau to many other countries.

Thousands of Germans, as well as men from other ethnic backgrounds, were employed in this profitable undertaking, residing either in Pantschowa itself, or in any of the smaller communities surrounding the town.

The Russian Army entered these areas already during the first days of October 1944. Under their protection - the Yugoslav Partisans, under the command of the notorious Josip Broz Tito, immediately usurped all local control, and established their brutal authority.

Every one who they considered being opposed to Communism was liquidated. Not only supporters of the Serb General Neditsch, but also the Serbs loyal to the king, the Tschetnici Drascha Michailowitschs, but especially the Germans were completely annihilated.

From the nearly 40,000 Germans in Pantschowa and it's environ, only a few thousand were able to leave the country. The remaining, not having a guilty concience of any wrongdoings, feared no reprisals. They could not have forseen in their wildest dreams what fate awaited them under the new regime.

They were all liquidated and their properties confiscated. Today the entire area is completely cleansed of all Germans.

Shortly after their takeover the Partisans began the
imprisonment of the most prominent and affluent men among the German community. The first victims were the ones whose possessions and homes were most appealing to them, moving into the houses immediately and confiscating everything in sight.

All Germans, rounded up in Pantschowa, were incarcerated first in the Stockhaus, an old prison facility which was part of the district court annex. From the surrounding areas many more men and women were brought here, resulting in an overflow capacity. Therefore a camp, surrounded by barbed wire and omnipresent rifle-toting guards, had to be constructed.

When the Partisans, primarily after extensive alcohol consumption, felt like entertainment, they dragged Germans, hands tied, from the overcrowded areas of the prison facility - either single or in groups - and brutally tortured them until they were either dead or the tormentors were too tired to continue the cruelty.

The torture technique, typical for other areas in Yugoslavia, consisted of brutally throwing the victims to the ground facedown and ramming with full force the rifle butts into the kidney areas.

Thrusting them on their backs, they used their heavy boots to stomp on these helpless victims, breaking ribs and inflicting other internal injuries. Another favorite was breaking teeth and the bridge of the nose with vicious blows with pistol grips. Many, many of the incarcerated Germans died from the inflicted mutilations.

After a few days, when this form of savagery lost its iniitial appeal, Partisans began to round up groups within the camp, and marched them outside the confines and shot them.

Before this took place, however, they were ordered to strip down naked, because the clothes of the victims were a highly treasured booty. From the camp in Pantschowa alone a total of 1,666 Germans were taken outside the confines, mostly at night, and nobody ever saw them again! The road leading to the township Jabuka was used as a favorite place for executions; also the airport was selected for this gruesome handiwork. In 1946, close to the starch producing plant near the airport, twelve mounds were still visible.

These were mass graves of larger groups of victims, killed there and covered with dirt. Most of these groups consisted of about one hundred victims. Many Germans who had died in the prison facilities were also buried there.


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While there is no debate that the conditions set at the conclusion of WWI made WWII inevitable, I don't think Wilson consciously knew that. He may have been a liar, but he couldn't "disguise" a contract for another war, if he was ignorant to that being the unshakable course of events. Reviewing history from present to the past can play tricks, if one lets it.
The only ignorance afoot is the true intentions of Woodrow Wilson from the beginning when influential forces were able to convince Teddy Roosevelt to run on a third party ticket, enabling puke face Wilson to win the White House. (House being a key word)

(the same tactic used by Bubba Clinton who continues to glorify the sorry administration of Woodrow Wilson)

For one was Wilson's rejection of Ho Chi Mihn who wanted very much to be an ally of the US and was quite fond of the US Constitution. (we'll get more into the whole Vietnam conflict if you care to, I have a lot to add to the misinformation most people believe on that topic.)

Ho practically begged Woodrow to help him throw off the yoke of French colonialism but Wilson was a Trotskyite.


Wilson's worst crime was to, through deception, place America again underneath the yoke of international banking, it is our crime if we do not throw off this yoke for the future of our children and the future of the American Republic.
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