How labor unions prolonged the great depression.

[MG1968]

Originally Posted by orangeblooded2

What do you think a good model for a median ground would be between my very pro union and PBV's to hell with the union approach should be?

make every state in the union a right to work state, let union members work alongside non-union members and let them compare paychecks. When the union worker sees how much money he or she pisses away to the union along with the forfeiture of any right to deal one on one with management, the labor union will find itself in trouble.

I refuse to believe that rank and file union members believe in gay marriage, abortion on demand, a pervasive welfare state, high taxes, etc. yet they are forced to contribute billions to a union structure that supports liberal politicians and their liberal agendas.

[orangeblooded2]

Originally Posted by BigPapaVol

I think the auto plants now springing up in the South have shown the perfect middle ground - absolutely no unions within a 5,000 mile radius of the plant or its supply train.

And no right to bargain for anything the company deems unnecessary.

But probably still better places to work than most.

[MG1968]

Originally Posted by orangeblooded2

And no right to bargain for anything the company deems unnecessary.

like what?

[orangeblooded2]

Originally Posted by MG1968

like what?

I am not going to recite a whole union book or contractual agreement between the union and company. Find an example on line.

[BigPapaVol]

Originally Posted by orangeblooded2

I am not going to recite a whole union book or contractual agreement between the union and company. Find an example on line.

Again, like what? Impossible to fire? Overpaid? Too much vacation? Stupidity clause? Whiner doctrine?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

[MG1968]

Originally Posted by orangeblooded2

I am not going to recite a whole union book or contractual agreement between the union and company. Find an example on line.

I'm as anti-union as BPV, and thus far you've not made a convincing case for the labor unions.

there is NOTHING that a labor union can offer that a company, without the filter of some idiot like Ron Gettlefinger, can't offer as a result of a free market economy.

[allvol123]

Originally Posted by orangeblooded2

I stand by my opinions.

As far as the highlighted paragraph.Something tells me that you are out of touch with any knowledge about a union,as far as personal experience.That you arguments are from a finical management position and straight out of a business course seminar or something very similar.

I have a ton of first hand experience with unions. I don't think I can think of a worse parasite that exists in the workplace.

[gsvol]

Originally Posted by allvol123

I have a ton of first hand experience with unions. I don't think I can think of a worse parasite that exists in the workplace.

I can, governmental interference in the work place!

[orangeblooded2]

Originally Posted by MG1968

I'm as anti-union as BPV, and thus far you've not made a convincing case for the labor unions.

there is NOTHING that a labor union can offer that a company, without the filter of some idiot like Ron Gettlefinger, can't offer as a result of a free market economy.

.

Congratulations.But,neither have you for your opinions.





Then why do they not exist?_QUESTION?



At least i have the vision to see the need for a middle ground.Something that we are not going to come up with here in this bastion of business barons.

[beergood]

"They do not stick with it ,in so mush as they are stuck with it."


Toyota has a very good business model going, in terms of keeping the unions out. The pay scale for skilled trades, while not in line with the unions, is very good. The pay scale for secondary positions (press operators, fork truck drivers) is also very good, although you probably won't find a wire runner making $25/hr. Benefits are outstanding, the employees are taken care. And in return for a good wage and benefits, the employees don't unionize. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Orangeblooded, just out of curiosity, what was your job in a union shop? I think that would be interesting, if you wouldn't mind sharing that info...

[orangeblooded2]

Originally Posted by beergood

"They do not stick with it ,in so mush as they are stuck with it."


Toyota has a very good business model going, in terms of keeping the unions out. The pay scale for skilled trades, while not in line with the unions, is very good. The pay scale for secondary positions (press operators, fork truck drivers) is also very good, although you probably won't find a wire runner making $25/hr. Benefits are outstanding, the employees are taken care. And in return for a good wage and benefits, the employees don't unionize. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Orangeblooded, just out of curiosity, what was your job in a union shop? I think that would be interesting, if you wouldn't mind sharing that info...

I'm not willing to say but it was a highly skilled trade.One that I can bring unique experience too.

If you reread one of my post I said Toyota was a good company and that I would work for them union or not.

[allvol123]

Originally Posted by orangeblooded2

I'm not willing to say but it was a highly skilled trade.One that I can bring unique experience too.

If you reread one of my post I said Toyota was a good company and that I would work for them union or not.

If it took such skill along with your unique experience, why the need for the union membership?

[rjd970]

Originally Posted by orangeblooded2

I think after the big three retool they will be better off.

Toyota's business model is far different that most u.s. companies and i would work for them union or not.

As far as being able to see the need for a union.Drop your masters and go work for a non-union company for six months and I guarantee you a different perspective.

Philosophically, I don't agree with the "seniority first" mentality. Blue collar or white collar, you need the most capable people running things. Competitve edge drops when this isn't the case, it's a fact.

I work for an Aerospace Engineering company. The company I work for has a defense and commercial sector. I work in defense...and the commercial sector based out on the west coast has an engineer union that you have to join. There is no way we win some of the defense contracts we do while being unionized. Our competitors would eat our lunch, literally. We simply can't be price competitive and the threat of production shutting down doesn't sit too well with the governement when we are supplying weapon systems the warfighter needs.

I can categorically tell you that there is no way in the pit of hades would I ever transfer to commercial, no matter the promotion, simply because I don't want to be unionized. It is that simple. I have heard horror stories from guys that work out there.

Just so you know, most on here would consider me one of the more liberal and democratic leaning posters. But with this issue, the dems have it all wrong. Again, I don't see the need for it in today's business world. Anybody not treating their employees right will go out of business.

I appreciate what you are saying, but it just doesn't add up to a defensible argument.

[beergood]

Originally Posted by orangeblooded2

I'm not willing to say but it was a highly skilled trade.One that I can bring unique experience too.

If you reread one of my post I said Toyota was a good company and that I would work for them union or not.

Why would you work for Toyota if they aren't unionized? What makes Toyota attractive to a union man? Is it because, for all intents and purposes, Toyota is a union shop in terms of pay and benefits?

Let me ask you this...do you see any reason to pay a fork truck driver or press operator between 25-30 dollars an hour? Grossing 6 figures? Because that, to me, is a prime example of why the Big 3 are hurting right now. Also, paying for the health insurance and retirement of a million plus people who don't even punch the clock anymore probably isn't good for the finances...

[beergood]

GM Forklift Driver Wages $103,000.00 per Year. Soon From Our Paychecks. The Liberty Tree Lantern

See what I am saying???