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07-18-2008, 12:52 PM
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#1 (permalink)
| | Wave yo hands in the aiya
Join Date: Oct 2005 
Posts: 24,204
| Nelson Mandela Found a Way to Completely Lose My Respect
Mandela's B-Day message: Rich should help poor - Yahoo! News
I know guys like him can't help their socialistic views, but he makes it out to be a responsibility of the wealthy to help those "less fortunate."
Just makes me cringe. | 
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07-18-2008, 01:28 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | Naval Guru
Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 3,313
| So the rich should just horde their money? You know the wealthy can help out by setting up new industry and buying locally, they dont have to give money directly to poor people.
It didnt sound to me like he was saying to go out into the street and give up your wealth. | 
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07-18-2008, 02:20 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | Wave yo hands in the aiya
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 24,204
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MontereyVol  So the rich should just horde their money? You know the wealthy can help out by setting up new industry and buying locally, they dont have to give money directly to poor people.
It didnt sound to me like he was saying to go out into the street and give up your wealth. | It sounded to me like he's all about giving it away. He has had a bit of the entitlement mindset since he left prison and has been on his whirlwind tour. I don't think that has left him.
If he has in mind some sort of capitalist notion of the wealthy putting together businesses that employ people, take risk and add to the community, he would have been wasting his breath, because that is what they do by their nature. Horded cash is sure to dwindle over time.
I could be dead wrong, but I'm thinking he's calling it effectively immoral to have a bunch of money and not give it to the poor. | |
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07-18-2008, 02:43 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| | Nine times...Nine Times
Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In the office
Posts: 5,515
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MontereyVol So the rich should just horde their money? You know the wealthy can help out by setting up new industry and buying locally, they dont have to give money directly to poor people.
It didnt sound to me like he was saying to go out into the street and give up your wealth. | thing is, the rich are very charitable already and how are they repaid? Barack Obama, and other socialists, promise to tax them even more out of "fairness". So yeah, in the face of not being being shown any gratitude and then having an even larger chunk of their money taken by force, maybe the rich should start hording their money.
screw socialists and their redistributionist policies.
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There are only two means by which men can deal with one another: guns or logic. Force or persuasion. Those who know that they cannot win by means of logic, have always resorted to guns.--Ayn Rand | |
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07-18-2008, 04:20 PM
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#5 (permalink)
| | Naval Guru
Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 3,313
| Not a fan of just giving stuff away. But when you do, you shouldn't be doing it for gratitude.
as far as I know, Obama hasn't taken any money away from you. Seems he just sits back and lets people give it to him. which is fine, I choose to spend my money elsewhere. | |
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07-18-2008, 04:36 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | a lover, not a fighter
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 4,791
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapaVol | Let me see. I wonder where Mandela might have come up with such a crazy notion...helping those less fortunate...hmm....
Oh - that's right. The New Testament and the Old Testament. The Bible on the Poor | |
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07-18-2008, 05:59 PM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Nine times...Nine Times
Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In the office
Posts: 5,515
| SPIEGEL Interview with African Economics Expert: "For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid!" - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News Quote:
The Kenyan economics expert James Shikwati, 35, says that aid to Africa does more harm than good. The avid proponent of globalization spoke with SPIEGEL about the disastrous effects of Western development policy in Africa, corrupt rulers, and the tendency to overstate the AIDS problem.
SPIEGEL:
Mr. Shikwati, the G8 summit at Gleneagles is about to beef up the development aid for Africa...
Shikwati: ... for God's sake, please just stop.
SPIEGEL: Stop? The industrialized nations of the West want to eliminate hunger and poverty.
Shikwati: Such intentions have been damaging our continent for the past 40 years. If the industrial nations really want to help the Africans, they should finally terminate this awful aid. The countries that have collected the most development aid are also the ones that are in the worst shape. Despite the billions that have poured in to Africa, the continent remains poor.
SPIEGEL: Do you have an explanation for this paradox?
Shikwati: Huge bureaucracies are financed (with the aid money), corruption and complacency are promoted, Africans are taught to be beggars and not to be independent. In addition, development aid weakens the local markets everywhere and dampens the spirit of entrepreneurship that we so desperately need. As absurd as it may sound: Development aid is one of the reasons for Africa's problems. If the West were to cancel these payments, normal Africans wouldn't even notice. Only the functionaries would be hard hit. Which is why they maintain that the world would stop turning without this development aid.
| the old adage, "give a man a fish and he eats tonight, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime."
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There are only two means by which men can deal with one another: guns or logic. Force or persuasion. Those who know that they cannot win by means of logic, have always resorted to guns.--Ayn Rand | |
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07-18-2008, 07:15 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| | doo doo doo
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: looking out my backdoor
Posts: 12,261
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MG1968 | Interesting story
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Who can take the country
Sprinkle it with change
Make everything fair when the wealth he rearranges
The Candy Man, the Candy man can
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07-18-2008, 07:21 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Wave yo hands in the aiya
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 24,204
| Quote:
Originally Posted by TennNC Let me see. I wonder where Mandela might have come up with such a crazy notion...helping those less fortunate...hmm....
Oh - that's right. The New Testament and the Old Testament. The Bible on the Poor | that makes his view no less reprehensible to me.
Th bible also says vagrancy is a sin. How's that grab you. | |
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07-18-2008, 07:54 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 510
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapaVol that makes his view no less reprehensible to me.
Th bible also says vagrancy is a sin. How's that grab you. | As a contradiction. And remember, vagrancy in many 3rd world countries is not a choice. | |
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07-18-2008, 08:52 PM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,896
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapaVol | Quote: |
Last week, the Spice Girls performed for 27,000 fans in Johannesburg. Nelson Mandela was there. He said, "These are my heroes. This is one of the greatest moments of my life."
| The Spice Girls - By David Plotz - Slate Magazine
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"The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have." Vince Lombardi | |
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07-18-2008, 09:59 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| | Football Jones
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,292
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MG1968 | That is good stuff and makes a ton of sense. | |
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07-19-2008, 10:41 AM
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#13 (permalink)
| | C.J. Black owes me $50...
Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hugging Harold Reynolds...
Posts: 9,191
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapaVol | Well, the African National Congress that Mandela was a memeber of was essentially a Marxist organization anyways... so this comment doesn't surprise me.
Not that I'm putting down their efforts to end apartheid back in the day...
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“He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire.”
Winston Churchill | |
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07-19-2008, 05:40 PM
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#14 (permalink)
| | a lover, not a fighter
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 4,791
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapaVol that makes his view no less reprehensible to me.
Th bible also says vagrancy is a sin. How's that grab you. | Will you point me to those verses?
If I understand you, I think it's comical that you're indignant that someone would call on those with means to help those without means. | |
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07-19-2008, 05:46 PM
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#15 (permalink)
| | a lover, not a fighter
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 4,791
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MG1968 | His criticism seems to be two-fold and contradictory.
On one hand, he's saying donations are wasted in bureaucracy and corruption, therefore not getting to the people who need it.
On the other hand, he's saying it's creating beggars, indicating it in fact is getting to the people who need it, but doing them more harm than good.
Which is it?
Is not a good portion of our funding tied to economic development (i.e. teaching them to fish) and basic means for survival (medicine and food)?
I wonder what the interviewee would think of the One campaign and all the damage it's doing the continent of Africa. ONE | FrontPage | |
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