School Shootings

#1

Hoosier_Vol

Vol Stuck in B1G 10 Hell
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#1
I've been in security/Law Enforcement for over 20 years now and every time there is a mass shooting especially at a school I get ton of messages on FB or via email asking my opinion on what can be done to stop these shootings. The short answer is NOTHING can be done to STOP these but there are a ton of things that we can do to pre identify possible shootings or limit the amount of victims/casualties .


The Gun Debate: Everyone is quick to call for gun control or bans on A-15's when there is a mass shooting. This is the laziest and dumbest argument in this whole tragic debate on shootings. Ban AR's or any guns WON'T stop these shootings. Most of the times these weapons are acquired from their parents,friends or just bought off the street without background checks. Politicians are quick to use these events for their own propaganda and political believes. If a nut case wants to shoot up a place there NOTHING gun bans will do to prevent these acts from happening, stop this debate and start doing something that CAN help reduce or identify possible events.

Training/Equipment:To be honest most schools or businesses are under trained or equipped for these events. Most schools have some sort of security these days wether it's a unarmed guard, metal detectors,video cameras or a armed police/school resource officer. Most high schools regardless of the size of the campus have 1 or 2 officers. One or two officers are not enough in most cases to properly protect campuses. Several schools don't wont offer armed security or have very poor if ANY other security devices such as metal detectors or cameras. How does this happen in this day and age?? Usually comes down to $$

School Design/Setup: Most high schools and universities are easy targets for mass shootings once the suspect(s) get inside the facility. Most classrooms have large glass windows or amazingly doors that are unable to be locked from inside the classrooms. This makes it very easy for possible shooters to access areas and to stalk out victims.

Mental Health Issues & Warning Signs: After a tragic mass shooting we almost always find out that there was easy warning signs that were ignored or that the suspect had mental health issues. In almost 90% of mass shootings there were very easy "warning signs" leading up to the shooting. These are either physical or verbal comments, the following and talking about terrorist groups or past mass shootings and very often social media posts prior to the event. If you see or hear someone making statements about violence against others or posting weird social media posts about violence then REPORT IT!! Regardless of wether the posts or statements are legit or just angry banter at least authorities will be aware of it! This in my opinion is the #1 way to prevent possible shootings!

The Armed Teacher Debate: The media and left wing politicians are HIGHLY against this ideal because of their gun ban causes and pushes. In my opinion with what I said about a lack of officers/guards and equipment in most schools I firmly believe IF DONE RIGHT is the ONLY way to properly defend our schools. With that said I'm not talking about every Joe & Jane with a CCW permit is allowed to carry at school or in their workplace. If you are a licensed CCW carrier you should be required to go thru proper self defense and mass shooting training just like the police are required too. Then after passing the training and getting re certified EACH year you are allowed to carry for defense at school or work. In a school setting this should be only for staff, not students in my opinion.

Active Shooter Training: A lot of schools are very resistant to offering active shooter training even in this age because they simply have the "It can't happen here" thinking or are afraid to scare students or parents. In most states Active Shooter Training is free and offered by local police departments,Emergency Management or even the federal government. Another problem I often see when there is active shooter training at schools it's ONLY for local first responders and maybe school staff. Why not include students just like a fire or tornado drill?

Like I said before there is NO WAY to STOP mass shootings but limiting the victims and being more prepared and alert is the key.
 
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#2
#2
You can conceal it wearing jeans and a shirt.


Edit: watch this- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3647617/Chilling-video-shows-easy-hide-AR-15-ammunition-person.html


On that note, didn't see the part about while hearing gunshots, but still interesting, nonetheless.
 
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#3
#3
I've been in security/Law Enforcement for over 20 years now and every time there is a mass shooting especially at a school I get ton of messages on FB or via email asking my opinion on what can be done to stop these shootings. The short answer is NOTHING can be done to STOP these but there are a ton of things that we can do to pre identify possible shootings or limit the amount of victims/casualties .


The Gun Debate: Everyone is quick to call for gun control or bans on A-15's when there is a mass shooting. This is the laziest and dumbest argument in this whole tragic debate on shootings. Ban AR's or any guns WON'T stop these shootings. Most of the times these weapons are acquired from their parents,friends or just bought off the street without background checks. Politicians are quick to use these events for their own propaganda and political believes. If a nut case wants to shoot up a place there NOTHING gun bans will do to prevent these acts from happening, stop this debate and start doing something that CAN help reduce or identify possible events.

Training/Equipment:To be honest most schools or businesses are under trained or equipped for these events. Most schools have some sort of security these days wether it's a unarmed guard, metal detectors,video cameras or a armed police/school resource officer. Most high schools regardless of the size of the campus have 1 or 2 officers. One or two officers are not enough in most cases to properly protect campuses. Several schools don't wont offer armed security or have very poor if ANY other security devices such as metal detectors or cameras. How does this happen in this day and age?? Usually comes down to $$

School Design/Setup: Most high schools and universities are easy targets for mass shootings once the suspect(s) get inside the facility. Most classrooms have large glass windows or amazingly doors that are unable to be locked from inside the classrooms. This makes it very easy for possible shooters to access areas and to stalk out victims.

Mental Health Issues & Warning Signs: After a tragic mass shooting we almost always find out that there was easy warning signs that were ignored or that the suspect had mental health issues. In almost 90% of mass shootings there were very easy "warning signs" leading up to the shooting. These are either physical or verbal comments, the following and talking about terrorist groups or past mass shootings and very often social media posts prior to the event. If you see or hear someone making statements about violence against others or posting weird social media posts about violence then REPORT IT!! Regardless of wether the posts or statements are legit or just angry banter at least authorities will be aware of it! This in my opinion is the #1 way to prevent possible shootings!

The Armed Teacher Debate: The media and left wing politicians are HIGHLY against this ideal because of their gun ban causes and pushes. In my opinion with what I said about a lack of officers/guards and equipment in most schools I firmly believe IF DONE RIGHT is the ONLY way to properly defend our schools. With that said I'm not talking about every Joe & Jane with a CCW permit is allowed to carry at school or in their workplace. If you are a licensed CCW carrier you should be required to go thru proper self defense and mass shooting training just like the police are required too. Then after passing the training and getting re certified EACH year you are allowed to carry for defense at school or work. In a school setting this should be only for staff, not students in my opinion.

Active Shooter Training: A lot of schools are very resistant to offering active shooter training even in this age because they simply have the "It can't happen here" thinking or are afraid to scare students or parents. In most states Active Shooter Training is free and offered by local police departments,Emergency Management or even the federal government. Another problem I often see when there is active shooter training at schools it's ONLY for local first responders and maybe school staff. Why not include students just like a fire or tornado drill?

Like I said before there is NO WAY to STOP mass shootings but limiting the victims and being more prepared and alert is the key.

You make a lot of good points here. This is similar to combating terrorism. All we can do as a country is try and be as careful and prepared for such events as possible. That said, a determined individual will often still find a way to perpetrate a violent act.

If it's not an AR-15, it's going to be another type of gun. Even a pistol with 15 rounds will be able to kill a lot of people before anyone can intervene. If guns were outlawed altogether, there would still be machetes, knives, etc. We've seen people purposely run down with cars. Home-made explosives have killed many. There's no way to fully insulate society from such violence.

I'm saying this as someone who doesn't even own a gun. Gun control alone is, unfortunately, not the answer.
 
#4
#4
I've been in security/Law Enforcement for over 20 years now and every time there is a mass shooting especially at a school I get ton of messages on FB or via email asking my opinion on what can be done to stop these shootings. The short answer is NOTHING can be done to STOP these but there are a ton of things that we can do to pre identify possible shootings or limit the amount of victims/casualties .


The Gun Debate: Everyone is quick to call for gun control or bans on A-15's when there is a mass shooting. This is the laziest and dumbest argument in this whole tragic debate on shootings. Ban AR's or any guns WON'T stop these shootings. Most of the times these weapons are acquired from their parents,friends or just bought off the street without background checks. Politicians are quick to use these events for their own propaganda and political believes. If a nut case wants to shoot up a place there NOTHING gun bans will do to prevent these acts from happening, stop this debate and start doing something that CAN help reduce or identify possible events.

Training/Equipment:To be honest most schools or businesses are under trained or equipped for these events. Most schools have some sort of security these days wether it's a unarmed guard, metal detectors,video cameras or a armed police/school resource officer. Most high schools regardless of the size of the campus have 1 or 2 officers. One or two officers are not enough in most cases to properly protect campuses. Several schools don't wont offer armed security or have very poor if ANY other security devices such as metal detectors or cameras. How does this happen in this day and age?? Usually comes down to $$

School Design/Setup: Most high schools and universities are easy targets for mass shootings once the suspect(s) get inside the facility. Most classrooms have large glass windows or amazingly doors that are unable to be locked from inside the classrooms. This makes it very easy for possible shooters to access areas and to stalk out victims.

Mental Health Issues & Warning Signs: After a tragic mass shooting we almost always find out that there was easy warning signs that were ignored or that the suspect had mental health issues. In almost 90% of mass shootings there were very easy "warning signs" leading up to the shooting. These are either physical or verbal comments, the following and talking about terrorist groups or past mass shootings and very often social media posts prior to the event. If you see or hear someone making statements about violence against others or posting weird social media posts about violence then REPORT IT!! Regardless of wether the posts or statements are legit or just angry banter at least authorities will be aware of it! This in my opinion is the #1 way to prevent possible shootings!

The Armed Teacher Debate: The media and left wing politicians are HIGHLY against this ideal because of their gun ban causes and pushes. In my opinion with what I said about a lack of officers/guards and equipment in most schools I firmly believe IF DONE RIGHT is the ONLY way to properly defend our schools. With that said I'm not talking about every Joe & Jane with a CCW permit is allowed to carry at school or in their workplace. If you are a licensed CCW carrier you should be required to go thru proper self defense and mass shooting training just like the police are required too. Then after passing the training and getting re certified EACH year you are allowed to carry for defense at school or work. In a school setting this should be only for staff, not students in my opinion.

Active Shooter Training: A lot of schools are very resistant to offering active shooter training even in this age because they simply have the "It can't happen here" thinking or are afraid to scare students or parents. In most states Active Shooter Training is free and offered by local police departments,Emergency Management or even the federal government. Another problem I often see when there is active shooter training at schools it's ONLY for local first responders and maybe school staff. Why not include students just like a fire or tornado drill?

Like I said before there is NO WAY to STOP mass shootings but limiting the victims and being more prepared and alert is the key.

Unless the NRA is voted outta congress these mass murders will continue. Public opinion has shifted to support expanded background checks, doing so will not abridge 2ND Amendment rights but may keep felons and unstable people from buying assault weapons. Limiting clip capacities should be considered.
 
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#5
#5
Unless the NRA is voted outta congress these mass murders will continue. Public opinion has shifted to support expanded background checks, doing so will not abridge 2ND Amendment rights but may keep felons and unstable people from buying assault weapons. Limiting clip capacities should be considered.

here we go with the typical "NRA" response.
 
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#6
#6
They can require background checks, mental health screenings, DNA samples and my first born child and I'll still be able to buy any type of gun I want without these requirements within 30 minutes of me posting this response. Don't fall into the blame the NRA line of thinking, it just insults your intelligence.
 
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#7
#7
Unless the NRA is voted outta congress these mass murders will continue. Public opinion has shifted to support expanded background checks, doing so will not abridge 2ND Amendment rights but may keep felons and unstable people from buying assault weapons. Limiting clip capacities should be considered.

They’re called magazines. And no limiting their capacity will not change anything. Nor will expanding background checks
 
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#8
#8
Unless the NRA is voted outta congress these mass murders will continue. Public opinion has shifted to support expanded background checks, doing so will not abridge 2ND Amendment rights but may keep felons and unstable people from buying assault weapons. Limiting clip capacities should be considered.

come-on-man-8hrjwx.jpg
 
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#9
#9
here we go with the typical "NRA" response.

The morphed from second amendment watch dog to gun peddlers. NO ONE IS ADVOCATING CONFISCATION OF GUNS.Sensible gun laws to make it harder for the people that shouldn't have guns to buy guns. The slaughter of the innocents is unacceptable in any civilized society.
 
#10
#10
The morphed from second amendment watch dog to gun peddlers. NO ONE IS ADVOCATING CONFISCATION OF GUNS.Sensible gun laws to make it harder for the people that shouldn't have guns to buy guns. The slaughter of the innocents is unacceptable in any civilized society.

Common buzz words.

Sensible
Common sense
Reasonable

Please tell us what proposal fits these descriptions and will work.
 
#11
#11
Unless the NRA is voted outta congress these mass murders will continue. Public opinion has shifted to support expanded background checks, doing so will not abridge 2ND Amendment rights but may keep felons and unstable people from buying assault weapons. Limiting clip capacities should be considered.

Know how easy it is to swap out a magazine for another over..and over and over..?
 
#13
#13
Unless the NRA is voted outta congress these mass murders will continue. Public opinion has shifted to support expanded background checks, doing so will not abridge 2ND Amendment rights but may keep felons and unstable people from buying assault weapons. Limiting clip capacities should be considered.

Don't listen to Pelosi and CNN, but I agree with harder background checks before purchasing guns. Stockpiling should trigger additional interrogation by the police.
 
#15
#15
The morphed from second amendment watch dog to gun peddlers. NO ONE IS ADVOCATING CONFISCATION OF GUNS.Sensible gun laws to make it harder for the people that shouldn't have guns to buy guns. The slaughter of the innocents is unacceptable in any civilized society.

The slaughter of innocents is unavoidable in any civilized society. We already have laws that are designed to make it more difficult certain people from purchasing firearms.

The issue is that it’s still not possible to prevent them from getting a weapon, nor can any law make it impossible.
 
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#16
#16
Got a "sensible" gun law for an example?

FDLE - FAQs2

What about a waiting period to purchase a rifle/shotgun? Now, in this this case they may not dig anything else up but at least they have the opportunity to find something as opposed to relying on the background check (which this psycho passed).

Can they at least check to see if they have a disciplinary record at school?

Looking at the laws in the link above, can someone explain the rationale on why you have to be 21 to buy a handgun but only 18 to but a Long Gun (AR-15)? What about making the age 21 to buy an AR-15 type weapon?
 
#17
#17
FDLE - FAQs2

What about a waiting period to purchase a rifle/shotgun? Now, in this this case they may not dig anything else up but at least they have the opportunity to find something as opposed to relying on the background check (which this psycho passed).

Can they at least check to see if they have a disciplinary record at school?

Looking at the laws in the link above, can someone explain the rationale on why you have to be 21 to buy a handgun but only 18 to but a Long Gun (AR-15)? What about making the age 21 to buy an AR-15 type weapon?

Or just make it 18 for handguns. If you're old enough to vote and join the military why the difference?
 
#18
#18
Or just make it 18 for handguns. If you're old enough to vote and join the military why the difference?

I didn't make the law so I don't know the difference which is why I asked. You can't drink until you're 21, why not make it 21 for both? This kid was 19, maybe it could have made a difference in this case - that's all I'm saying.
 
#19
#19
I didn't make the law so I don't know the difference which is why I asked. You can't drink until you're 21, why not make it 21 for both? This kid was 19, maybe it could have made a difference in this case - that's all I'm saying.

Well I also think the drinking age needs to match that of eligibility to be drafted.
 
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#20
#20
The slaughter of innocents is unavoidable in any civilized society. We already have laws that are designed to make it more difficult certain people from purchasing firearms.

The issue is that it’s still not possible to prevent them from getting a weapon, nor can any law make it impossible.

Kinda makes you think we should be looking at people not the methods. Maybe even something really radical - like what's changed in our society since shootings like this became commonplace. But since laziness and willingness to blame something else rule the day, I'm guessing guns, cars, knives, etc will be the usual suspects and societal issues will skate ... again. Politicians, amateur shrinks, and social advocates who polarize society couldn't possible have a role.
 
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#21
#21
I didn't make the law so I don't know the difference which is why I asked. You can't drink until you're 21, why not make it 21 for both? This kid was 19, maybe it could have made a difference in this case - that's all I'm saying.

You believe his will to kill was that weak? That he would’ve said “I wish I could buy a rifle, but it’s illegal!”, “guess I can’t kill people :( “
 
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#22
#22
Kinda makes you think we should be looking at people not the methods. Maybe even something really radical - like what's changed in our society since shootings like this became commonplace. But since laziness and willingness to blame something else rule the day, I'm guessing guns, cars, knives, etc will be the usual suspects and societal issues will skate ... again. Politicians, amateur shrinks, and social advocates who polarize society couldn't possible have a role.

I’m almost afraid to ask.....but....what change do you believe has attributed to this
 
#23
#23
You believe his will to kill was that weak? That he would’ve said “I wish I could buy a rifle, but it’s illegal!”, “guess I can’t kill people :( “

What don't you understand about the word "maybe"?
 
#25
#25
One truth you’ll never hear spoken is that our broken educational system plays a role in this.
 
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