Texas Senate Passes Bill That Will Allow Doctors to Withhold Info From Pregnant Women

#1
Persian Vol

Persian Vol

I should be studying.
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#1
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/03/11/texas-lawmaker-says-his-bill-saves-disabled-children-critics-say-it-allows-doctors-to-lie-to-pregnant-women/?utm_term=.77edda12b3b0

The bill's author, state Sen. Brandon Creighton (R), said he introduced the legislation because he considers it “unacceptable that doctors can be penalized for embracing the sanctity of life” in Texas and noted that — as a father of two — he believes that “every child is precious.”
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In announcing the proposed legislation in November, Creighton's office said that the state senator from Conroe, near Houston, “took a stand for the unborn with a bill intended to protect doctors from legal pressure to recommend abortion. Based on legal precedent, doctors can be assigned liability for children born with abnormalities if they identified those abnormalities in utero and failed to advocate for termination, resulting in what’s termed a 'wrongful birth.'”
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The bill's opponents say S.B. 25 would create an incentive for antiabortion doctors to avoid conducting prenatal tests, of fully informing pregnant women of the test results — or even to lie to patients who might seek an abortion after learning their fetus has abnormalities.
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I find this deeply disturbing. Thoughts?
 
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#2
#2
#3
#3
Persian Vol said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/03/11/texas-lawmaker-says-his-bill-saves-disabled-children-critics-say-it-allows-doctors-to-lie-to-pregnant-women/?utm_term=.77edda12b3b0







I find this deeply disturbing. Thoughts?
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I agree with you overall. but this may seriously be the most disgusting thing I have ever read

if they identified those abnormalities in utero and failed to advocate for termination, resulting in what’s termed a 'wrongful birth.'”
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wrongful birth my ass.
 
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#4
#4
I think they should tell them whatever they want to hear. It's the patient that has to live with aborting a child because it's inconvenient or may not turn out exactly how they planned.
 
#5
#5
DancingOutlaw said:
I think they should tell them whatever they want to hear. It's the patient that has to live with aborting a child because it's inconvenient or may not turn out exactly how they planned.
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Or the child has a serious mental retardation.
 
#8
#8
If a zika type virus spread and it was known to be carried by 40% of the pregnant women and the virus could be detected in the fetus within the first two months by a simple test, what would be the correct course of action for a doctor? The mother?

There's really no need for anyone to respond....we all have our opinions.
 
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#10
#10
Persian Vol said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/03/11/texas-lawmaker-says-his-bill-saves-disabled-children-critics-say-it-allows-doctors-to-lie-to-pregnant-women/?utm_term=.77edda12b3b0







I find this deeply disturbing. Thoughts?
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Doctors being liable because they "failed to advocate for termination" I find more disturbing. Informing the patient of potential findings, absolutely they should. But to find a physician liable because they didn't actually advocate termination, THAT is disturbing, IMO.
 
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#12
#12
CABVOL said:
Doctors being liable because they "failed to advocate for termination" I find more disturbing. Informing the patient of potential findings, absolutely they should. But to find a physician liable because they didn't actually advocate termination, THAT is disturbing, IMO.
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I don't believe they are being sued for not advocating abortion, but for not disclosing the necessary information to the mother that her child may have defects. They would be acting negligent by purposely downplaying the severity of potential birth defects in order to reduce the possibility of abortion.
 
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#13
#13
Persian Vol said:
I don't believe they are being sued for not advocating abortion, but for not disclosing the necessary information to the mother that her child may have defects. They would be acting negligent by purposely downplaying the severity of potential birth defects in order to reduce the possibility of abortion.
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that is some straight up Gattaca stuff there.
 
#14
#14
The bill passing doesn't bother me. The TMA will write a rule making this unethical. Consequences would likely be loss of license. Additionally, risk management people would advise the MD to avoid this practice. Liability insurance carriers would likely stipulate withholding information from patients is not covered under the malpractice policy. These measures would neuter the law.
 
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#15
#15
Persian Vol said:
I don't believe they are being sued for not advocating abortion, but for not disclosing the necessary information to the mother that her child may have defects. They would be acting negligent by purposely downplaying the severity of potential birth defects in order to reduce the possibility of abortion.
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and you are down playing the importance of human life. you are advocating just because someone is different that they are lesser. that it is more acceptable to take a life because of a defect. I am trying to avoid Godwin's Law here, but come the frick on.

try this with a parent of someone with down syndrome. be sure someone is there to video tape it because I want to see you get laid out for it.
 
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#16
#16
LouderVol said:
and you are down playing the importance of human life. you are advocating just because someone is different that they are lesser. that it is more acceptable to take a life because of a defect. I am trying to avoid Godwin's Law here, but come the frick on.

try this with a parent of someone with down syndrome. be sure someone is there to video tape it because I want to see you get laid out for it.
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Disagree. There are hideous birth defects that cause extreme pain and death within hours. I can make a pretty good case to abort in those instances and I can make a pretty good case that a doctor that fails to disclose these defects to at least prep the parents for the inevitable is absolutely evil.
 
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#17
#17
McDad said:
The bill passing doesn't bother me. The TMA will write a rule making this unethical. Consequences would likely be loss of license. Additionally, risk management people would advise the MD to avoid this practice. Liability insurance carriers would likely stipulate withholding information from patients is not covered under the malpractice policy. These measures would neuter the law.
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Yep, the Docs will inform the mother (&father?) of the unborn child's status, then it's up to the mom & dad to decide. I can't see the law forcing doctors to advocate for abortion. Nor do I believe it's ethical for a doctor to with hold test results indicating a baby with defects. Should with holding that information would leave the doctors liable for a severely handicapped child's medical care?
 
#18
#18
Persian Vol said:
I don't believe they are being sued for not advocating abortion, but for not disclosing the necessary information to the mother that her child may have defects. They would be acting negligent by purposely downplaying the severity of potential birth defects in order to reduce the possibility of abortion.
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In announcing the proposed legislation in November, Creighton's office said that the state senator from Conroe, near Houston, “took a stand for the unborn with a bill intended to protect doctors from legal pressure to recommend abortion. Based on legal precedent, doctors can be assigned liability for children born with abnormalities if they identified those abnormalities in utero and failed to advocate for termination, resulting in what’s termed a 'wrongful birth.'”


The bolded is what I was basing that opinion on. I took that to mean that the physician could be held liable without advocating abortion.

I absolutely 100% agree that patients should be informed of any probable anomaly that their unborn baby may have. Not informing is indeed malpractice, IMO.
 
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#19
#19
ClearwaterVol said:
Disagree. There are hideous birth defects that cause extreme pain and death within hours. I can make a pretty good case to abort in those instances and I can make a pretty good case that a doctor that fails to disclose these defects to at least prep the parents for the inevitable is absolutely evil.
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What percentage of births have that? what percentage of birth defects is that?

about 14% of all births have a defect. Only 3% is apparent at birth. most of those being LBW. as I was born 5lb 4 oz I can tell you to go ef yourself.

many issues with childhood can be linked back. either generically or environment. its just another excuse for people to not be responsible for their actions.

as I said before I think it should be disclosed so that the parent can be ready. but it is still no excuse to terminate a life because there will be difficulties. last time I checked none of make it out of life alive.
 
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#20
#20
Not to derail the thread But does anyone else feel like America is drifting towards a post legal Society more and more. Seems like most people do what they want to do regardless of law Of course this is within reason and of course unreasonable people break the law and do bad things. I feel like people ignoring laws is essentially for the better; it is a good thing in our society. We have too many laws. we have too many regulations. people should have more freedom to do whatever as long as it doesn't effect others.
 
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#21
#21
LouderVol said:
and you are down playing the importance of human life. you are advocating just because someone is different that they are lesser. that it is more acceptable to take a life because of a defect. I am trying to avoid Godwin's Law here, but come the frick on.

try this with a parent of someone with down syndrome. be sure someone is there to video tape it because I want to see you get laid out for it.
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Louder I appreciate the passion, but I did not imply that defected babies were lesser or unimportant, but simply argued against the legalization of doctors withholding information to patients because of their personal preferences toward abortion. I did not intend for this thread to deviate into a philosophical argument about the morality of aborting defected babies, but rather wanted to discuss the controversy of giving doctors the power to legally misinform a mother into giving birth to a baby the mother would otherwise have "legally" aborted if aware of the complications of her fetus.
 
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#22
#22
McDad said:
Not to derail the thread But does anyone else feel like America is drifting towards a post legal Society more and more. Seems like most people do what they want to do regardless of law Of course this is within reason and of course unreasonable people break the law and do bad things. I feel like people ignoring laws is essentially for the better; it is a good thing in our society. We have too many laws. we have too many regulations. people should have more freedom to do whatever as long as it doesn't effect others.
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Looks like these senators agree with you

https://www.privateinternetaccess.c...nternet-history-end-fcc-online-privacy-rules/

"Today, Senators will vote to allow ISPs to sell your internet history and end FCC online privacy rules"
 
#24
#24
McDad said:
Not to derail the thread But does anyone else feel like America is drifting towards a post legal Society more and more. Seems like most people do what they want to do regardless of law Of course this is within reason and of course unreasonable people break the law and do bad things. I feel like people ignoring laws is essentially for the better; it is a good thing in our society. We have too many laws. we have too many regulations. people should have more freedom to do whatever as long as it doesn't effect others.
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Comrade Stalin's henchman Beria's quote comes to mind. "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime". Our increasing regulatory state is moving in this direction. Hopefully people are waking up to the idea that government and the people who create laws are not moral agents.
 
#25
#25
On a Friday, at around 3 pm, in 1994 after my wife's first ultra sound earlier in the week, we got a call from the doctor. After a 30 second conversation with that doctor, my wife hung up the phone, looked at me and said "the doctor says the baby has Downs Syndrome. They made an appointment with a civilian specialist for Tuesday morning".

Probably the most in depth soul searching we have ever done occurred over the next three days. I don't think we said 10 words to each other during that time. We were stunned!

Tuesday morning, we go to the base hospital and got her records. On the way to the specialist, I hear my wife say "Son of a *****!". I asked her what's wrong? She had been reading her records and at the top of the sheet, that the doctor had called her about the previous friday, appeared the patients name and it wasn't my wifes. The sheet was meant for a 40 something year old lady that definitely wasn't my wife.

Years later, my wife and I finally discussed that fateful Friday. Both of us had come to the same conclusion during that three days of soul searching.

I said all that to say this...

It is, imo, the doctors duty to inform each patient of anything, good or bad, found during tests and examinations.
The law proposed in the OP is yet another overreach by government.

tl;dr
 
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