How Badly Do We Need Immigrant Labor?

[n_huffhines]

Well, do you like stuff that comes from farms? This data is startling.

...Clemens explains, NCGA "must submit an application to the US Department of Labor proving that it has actively recruited US natives and native workers will not take NCGA jobs."

That data is interesting, because it describes the labor market before any immigrant workers are recruited.

Every year from 1998 to 2012, at least 130,000 North Carolinians were unemployed. Of those, the number who asked to be referred to NCGA was never above 268 (and that number was only reached in 2011, when 489,095 North Carolinians were unemployed). The share of unemployed asking for referrals never breached 0.09 percent.

When native unemployed people are referred to NCGA, they're almost without exception hired; between 1998 and 2011, 97 percent of referred applicants were hired. But they don't tend to last. In 2011, 245 people were hired out of 268 referred, but only 163 (66.5 percent) of the hired applicants actually showed up to the first day of work. Worse, only seven lasted to the end of the growing season.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...0-farm-workers-only-7-americans-stuck-it-out/

 

[Persian Vol]

Fake news

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Ask any back of house manager in literally every restaurant.

 

[n_huffhines]

Ask any back of house manager in literally every restaurant.

Literally, almost every cook in Phoenix is from Mexico or Central America. Even at the 4.6 star-rated Korean BBQ place.

 

[Coach_Z]

"A Day Without Immigrants" was last week.

Class sizes were cut, roads were less crowded, and the world kept spinning.

The "protest" fell flat, IMO.

 

[n_huffhines]

It's not mentioned in my OP quotes, but we're talking 6,500 jobs and 268 is the max native applicants they've had.

 

[hog88]

Well, do you like stuff that comes from farms? This data is startling.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...0-farm-workers-only-7-americans-stuck-it-out/

Simple fix, do away with welfare and food stamps. Hunger is a great motivator.

 

[n_huffhines]

"A Day Without Immigrants" was last week.

Class sizes were cut, roads were less crowded, and the world kept spinning.

The "protest" fell flat, IMO.

The protest was dumb because one day is doable. Try a year paying farm workers $20+/hr. We'll have huge increases in food prices and quite possibly food shortages.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

"A Day Without Immigrants" was last week.

Class sizes were cut, roads were less crowded, and the world kept spinning.

The "protest" fell flat, IMO.

Totally 100% dependent on where you were at.

 

[n_huffhines]

Simple fix, do away with welfare and food stamps. Hunger is a great motivator.

You call it a simple fix, but that fix is NEVER HAPPENING.

So you gotta find another solution.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Well, do you like stuff that comes from farms? This data is startling.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...0-farm-workers-only-7-americans-stuck-it-out/

A better question is would you pay more for the stuff from farms? Picking tomatoes sucks but for the right money folks will do it. Migrants do it because it's usually a cash operation and there's way fewer hoops to jump through or get busted by ICE. They don't make a lot but there's way less strings attached, which is important to them. The average citizen isn't going to work at a discount to avoid ICE because there's no need. Migrant workers have been used to pick growing seasons for a long time, but they would eventually go home at the end of the season. That's happening less and less.

 

[n_huffhines]

A better question is would you pay more for the stuff from farms? Picking tomatoes sucks but for the right money folks will do it. Migrants do it because it's usually a cash operation and there's way fewer hoops to jump through or get busted by ICE. They don't make a lot but there's way less strings attached, which is important to them. The average citizen isn't going to work at a discount to avoid ICE because there's no need. Migrant workers have been used to pick growing seasons for a long time, but they would eventually go home at the end of the season. That's happening less and less.

I would have to pay much higher prices, but I don't want to. I don't think you understand how much more expensive your groceries would be.

I'd rather hold true to American values and live a higher standard of living in the process.

 

[golfballs]

Like any conversation on immigration - important to note the distinction between legal and illegal immigration. I don't think anyone disputes the importance of immigrants.

Along the line of farm workers, Huff, if Ag weren't so heavily subsidized, I'd be curious to know how many of these jobs would be overseas?

 

[hog88]

The protest was dumb because one day is doable. Try a year paying farm workers $20+/hr. We'll have huge increases in food prices and quite possibly food shortages.

And huge leaps in equipment technology.

 

[n_huffhines]

Like any conversation on immigration - importation to note the distinction between legal and illegal immigration. I don't think anyone disputes the importance of immigrants.

Along the line of farm workers, Huff, if Ag weren't so heavily subsidized, I'd be curious to know how many of these jobs would be overseas?

I think you are the first person to mention legal and illegal.

My point is just that we need tons and tons of immigrants. A lot more than we are letting in legally.

 

[hog88]

You call it a simple fix, but that fix is NEVER HAPPENING.

So you gotta find another solution.

We as a country need to nut up and make some decisions. Do we continue to promote laziness under the guise of being human or do we simply decide to force people to take personal responsibility and deal with the public outrage.

We cannot continue down the path of governance by emotion.

 

[Orange_Crush]

It's not mentioned in my OP quotes, but we're talking 6,500 jobs and 268 is the max native applicants they've had.

I'm not sure if this was covered in the stats, but...

There's a documentary out there that covers the practices of the fruit/veggie picking industry and how it's affected by illegal immigrant labor. A major hurdle to the field is the extremely low pay and harsh conditions that are created by the illegal status of the workers. In other words, if you have a group of people who are being exploited due to their illegal status, does it create a true fair market?

Have you researched how much the farm laborers make? Have you researched the conditions they work in for that amount? have you researched the legal "blind eyes" on conditions and pay, due to the deep pockets of WalMart, Publix, etc...?

All that to ask this... Do you think that the influx of illegal workers has created a the fair market that Americans will flock to work in, above and beyond the unemployment they've paid in?

 

[n_huffhines]

We as a country need to nut up and make some decisions. Do we continue to promote laziness under the guise of being human or do we simply decide to force people to take personal responsibility and deal with the public outrage.

We cannot continue down the path of governance by emotion.

OK, but it's not happening. This is the reality. It doesn't matter what we need to do. We are governed by opportunistic sell-outs and we have to make the best of this system.

 

[hog88]

Back in the day a farmer could get teenagers to help pick up hay, cut tobacco and harvesting chores. Make a few calls and you could have a gang for a few days. You can't find kids to do any of that today.

 

[hog88]

OK, but it's not happening. This is the reality. It doesn't matter what we need to do. We are governed by opportunistic sell-outs and we have to make the best of this system.

Then there is no solution outside of changing them out.

 

[golfballs]

I think you are the first person to mention legal and illegal.

My point is just that we need tons and tons of immigrants. A lot more than we are letting in legally.

The system clearly isn't working. I don't think anyone doubts that. It needs to be revamped and at the same time we need to secure the border so we know who is coming across.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Well, do you like stuff that comes from farms? This data is startling.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...0-farm-workers-only-7-americans-stuck-it-out/

I would also ask for details on what, exactly, is in that report per how they've recruited American workers for those jobs.

From Wikipedia: "The North Carolina Growers Association (NCGA) is a non-profit growers' cooperative based in the United States state of North Carolina that helps farmers in the state get H-2A visas for temporary foreign agricultural laborers."

So, this is a coop of farmers that exists to help farmers get migrant (cheap) labor.

What narrative do you think it in their best interest to present?

 

[n_huffhines]

I'm not sure if this was covered in the stats, but...

There's a documentary out there that covers the practices of the fruit/veggie picking industry and how it's affected by illegal immigrant labor. A major hurdle to the field is the extremely low pay and harsh conditions that are created by the illegal status of the workers. In other words, if you have a group of people who are being exploited due to their illegal status, does it create a true fair market?

There is no such thing as a "fair market" anywhere in the world, nor will there be.

The market is not fair, but that's OK. The market is still better at sorting things out than government in the overwhelming majority of cases.

And in this case, none of these hurdles you speak of exist. These are legal migrant workers, working under regulated conditions, and Americans still don't want the jobs. Did you read the article or my quotes?

 

[n_huffhines]

Then there is no solution outside of changing them out.

Good luck with that. I've lived long enough to know this approach doesn't change much.

 

[n_huffhines]

Back in the day a farmer could get teenagers to help pick up hay, cut tobacco and harvesting chores. Make a few calls and you could have a gang for a few days. You can't find kids to do any of that today.

Because there are better jobs for teenagers now. I worked as a convenience store clerk, a dishwasher, a telemarketer, and at an assisted living facility as a teen.

I didn't know anybody on a farm.