My Views on Illegal Immigration...

[ClearwaterVol]

This isn't an issue the government is interested in solving. Simply put, it's big business. The government hones in on reasonably successful mid size businesses and pursuant to statute can collect all employment records for the previous three years. They then determine the number of illegals working for said company and issue a fine.

This is all fine in theory, but what of the illegals that have now been caught. The employer, of course, fires them. Are they deported? Nope, they simply move on to the next job and await for that employer to be investigated for the same offense. There is no interest in enforcing the immigration laws, but rather the government is simply interested in revenue collection. The problem is not going to be solved because that would cost the government money.

 

[volinbham]

I agree with the OP. I think the guest worker approach mitigates the issue to some extent.

I was onboard with the Bush plan (adopted by Rubio).

Without controlling the border better however the guest worker program doesn't work.

 

[n_huffhines]

If government solves this problem, then Ds can't appeal to their base by painting Rs as bigots and Rs can't hold their constituents hostage with fear-mongering. Neither party wants this solved.

 

[VOLS INC.]

If government solves this problem, then Ds can't appeal to their base by painting Rs as bigots and Rs can't hold their constituents hostage with fear-mongering. Neither party wants this solved.

Alot of truth in this post

 

[k-town_king]

We would also pay more without a whole sector of low paid laborers. The country was built on immigration and will always have legal and illegal immigration.

 

[hog88]

If government solves this problem, then Ds can't appeal to their base by painting Rs as bigots and Rs can't hold their constituents hostage with fear-mongering. Neither party wants this solved.

I rarely agree with you but you are spot on here.

 

[joevol33]

If government solves this problem, then Ds can't appeal to their base by painting Rs as bigots and Rs can't hold their constituents hostage with fear-mongering. Neither party wants this solved.

This is true.

 

[joevol33]

I know voting republicans are a lot of the ones wanting to stop illegal immigration, but you know who doesn't like it even more? Legal Mexicans. At least here where I live anyway. I have several Mexican friends, some legal, and some I know who are here illegally. I here more fussing from the ones who came the right way than I do "us racist rednecks". It may not be the same every where, but it's like that in north Georgia.

 

[joevol33]

I think a lot of people fussing also aren't being racist about it. When I moved to Georgia I worked for years at a lumber yard, and was a supervisor. We had 20+ Mexicans who worked there. Our sister company in Atlanta called and said ins had just busted them and were on their way to us. My boss had me gather all my guys and one of them was legal to stay, the rest were let go immediately. A week later they were all hired back, every last one of them. Difference was, this time they all had different names and SS numbers. I know this as fact cause I had to help with the paper work. It angered some people. I just think some are always gonna have a problem with these situations because it isn't right. They obviously stole information from somewhere, and just because it's always happened doesn't mean someone is being racist for having a problem with it.

 

[volinbham]

I think a lot of people fussing also aren't being racist about it. When I moved to Georgia I worked for years at a lumber yard, and was a supervisor. We had 20+ Mexicans who worked there. Our sister company in Atlanta called and said ins had just busted them and were on their way to us. My boss had me gather all my guys and one of them was legal to stay, the rest were let go immediately. A week later they were all hired back, every last one of them. Difference was, this time they all had different names and SS numbers. I know this as fact cause I had to help with the paper work. It angered some people. I just think some are always gonna have a problem with these situations because it isn't right. They obviously stole information from somewhere, and just because it's always happened doesn't mean someone is being racist for having a problem with it.

So true of so many issues. We can't debate issues anymore without going straight to nefarious motives.

Damn shame.

 

[MT LeConte]

I see illegal immigration as more of a hot button topic for both bases than a real problem for the country. It certainly stirs up the electorate and more than any single issue has given rise to Donald Trump.

I believe that illegal immigration needs to be addressed and fixed but not much will change under Hillary and Trump will never get a wall built.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

If government solves this problem, then Ds can't appeal to their base by painting Rs as bigots and Rs can't hold their constituents hostage with fear-mongering. Neither party wants this solved.

Truth.

Also you can say this about several issues IMHO.

 

[MT LeConte]

If government solves this problem, then Ds can't appeal to their base by painting Rs as bigots and Rs can't hold their constituents hostage with fear-mongering. Neither party wants this solved.

Interesting, The Rs fear mongering and Ds playing race cards.

Is it because millions of people are coming across the border or is it because millions of "brown" people are coming across the border. If Mexico were as white as Canada, Finland or Australia would we even be having this conversation?

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Unless you are 100% for allowing them all to come in, become citizens, receive benefits and healthcare, you are a racist.

As to the labor pool, I've picked tomatoes, cut tobacco, done landscaping, construction, washed dishes, etc. They are not glamorous jobs but they are jobs. I was willing to do them for the wage I was paid, but I wouldn't be willing to do them for 20 or 30% less. I don't think it's a matter of doing jobs Americans don't want, it's doing jobs Americans won't do for that pay. Migrant labor has its place with seasonal farming demands, but that's not what we're dealing with anymore. A lot of these folks have put down roots and are here to stay.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Interesting, The Rs fear mongering and Ds playing race cards.

Is it because millions of people are coming across the border or is it because millions of "brown" people are coming across the border. If Mexico were as white as Canada, Finland or Australia would we even be having this conversation?

If the Canadians were coming across the border illegally, only speaking French, waving Canadian flags and calling us racists we'd have the exact same problem.

 

[volinbham]

Interesting, The Rs fear mongering and Ds playing race cards.

Is it because millions of people are coming across the border or is it because millions of "brown" people are coming across the border. If Mexico were as white as Canada, Finland or Australia would we even be having this conversation?

I'd say if the costs born by the border area towns were the same then yes we'd be having the same conversation.

Why do you think Canadian's don't immigrate illegally in the proportions that Mexicans and Central Americans do?

 

[n_huffhines]

Interesting, The Rs fear mongering and Ds playing race cards.

Is it because millions of people are coming across the border or is it because millions of "brown" people are coming across the border. If Mexico were as white as Canada, Finland or Australia would we even be having this conversation?

Probably. It was the same conversation we had about the Irish, Jews, Germans, Italians, etc.

 

[n_huffhines]

If the Canadians were coming across the border illegally, only speaking French, waving Canadian flags and calling us racists we'd have the exact same problem.

They don't "only speak Spanish" and the waving of flags and name-calling is a pretty new phenomenon. You were concerned about them long before they were protesting Trump and his supporters. Illegal immigrants basically stayed out of national politics until recently. Part of it is their numbers have emboldened them and so have shifts in public opinion.

 

[n_huffhines]

I'd say if the costs born by the border area towns were the same then yes we'd be having the same conversation.

Why do you think Canadian's don't immigrate illegally in the proportions that Mexicans and Central Americans do?

Because Canada has a pretty good economy.

 

[theFallGuy]

Interesting, The Rs fear mongering and Ds playing race cards.

Is it because millions of people are coming across the border or is it because millions of "brown" people are coming across the border. If Mexico were as white as Canada, Finland or Australia would we even be having this conversation?

Are Mexicans racist for not letting White Americans cross into their country illegally?

"Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.

The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” violate Mexican law, are not “physically or mentally healthy” or lack the “necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents. "

 

[volinbham]

Because Canada has a pretty good economy.

Correct and collectively Canadians coming here have less of an impact on a given area's resources.

It's not about white vs brown; it's about net drain on resources.

If Canada was a poor country and a bunch of white Canadians were flooding in who didn't speak english, were poorly educated and could only take very low wage jobs so that they needed some forms of public assistance etc. then people would have a problem with them too.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

They don't "only speak Spanish" and the waving of flags and name-calling is a pretty new phenomenon. You were concerned about them long before they were protesting Trump and his supporters. Illegal immigrants basically stayed out of national politics until recently. Part of it is their numbers have emboldened them and so have shifts in public opinion.

Define recently? We have been discussing illegal immigrants consistently since Bush was president. The Democrats have seen that the Hispanic population is growing at a much faster rate than other minorities. It's the demographic they want to hitch the party's star to for the next generation of elections. Amnesty and voting rights for that bloc of people would be a boon to liberal candidates.

 

[n_huffhines]

Correct and collectively Canadians coming here have less of an impact on a given area's resources.

It's not about white vs brown; it's about net drain on resources.

If Canada was a poor country and a bunch of white Canadians were flooding in who didn't speak english, were poorly educated and could only take very low wage jobs so that they needed some forms of public assistance etc. then people would have a problem with them too.

I would say it's the perception that they are a net drain. I don't think they are a net drain. I think government busts with or without them, but our collective standard of living rises with their presence.

 

[n_huffhines]

Define recently? We have been discussing illegal immigrants consistently since Bush was president. The Democrats have seen that the Hispanic population is growing at a much faster rate than other minorities. It's the demographic they want to hitch the party's star to for the next generation of elections. Amnesty and voting rights for that bloc of people would be a boon to liberal candidates.

W? Yeah, that's recently. It's definitely been an issue since the 60s, but it hasn't been a hot button issue until the 2000s, and more specifically, during the Obama administration.

The old footage of Ronald Reagan and HW trying to outdo each other pandering to immigrants gives context to my point.

Republicans have painted themselves in a corner. They could be getting the Hispanic vote, but they've spent the last 2 decades putting themselves at odds with immigrants.

 

[volinbham]

I would say it's the perception that they are a net drain. I don't think they are a net drain. I think government busts with or without them, but our collective standard of living rises with their presence.

Perhaps in the aggregate it's net neutral but that doesn't mean there aren't real impacts for some people in the short term and their concerns are valid.

Suggesting it's just white vs brown (Mt. Leconte) and not a legit concern is both pollyannaish and insulting.