Things Getting Interesting - Fracture in Dem Party

[volinbham]

The scene in Nevada doesn't bode well for party unity.

Chaos At Nevada Democratic Convention; State Party Chair Flees Building As Sanders Supporters Demand Recount | Video | RealClearPolitics

 

[distrovol]

Color me shocked at the media's fixation on the divisions in the Republican party while the Democrats' issues are largely ignored. I dare say they are as bad or worse.

 

[lawgator1]

You know, if Sanders were 15 years younger and just a wee bit less unrealistically idealistic, he might have been able to take this away from her. They've done a very good job of portraying her as the face of institutional Washington politics, and in a very real sense they are right about that.

I don't know exactly where the line is between a positive because she has experience, versus a negative because she's part of the status quo. In the general, she will need to find a way to tout the former as a quality, and discount the latter as a liability.

 

[MT LeConte]

A lot of people on both sides don't want to vote for their party's candidate. 'Tis a very strange year and hopefully the beginning of the end of the status quo in Washington.

 

[Grand Vol]

You know, if Sanders were 15 years younger and just a wee bit less unrealistically idealistic, he might have been able to take this away from her. They've done a very good job of portraying her as the face of institutional Washington politics, and in a very real sense they are right about that.

I don't know exactly where the line is between a positive because she has experience, versus a negative because she's part of the status quo. In the general, she will need to find a way to tout the former as a quality, and discount the latter as a liability.

Actually, if it wasn't for that corrupt Super Delegate system, he would likely be neck in neck with her right now. But the establishment Democrat voters picked her early and her only regardless of anyone else that was going to run. And Bernie supporters see that and are pissed.

If it goes to a contested convention, which I doubt, his supporters might just sit this one out and pretty much hand the election to Trump. And I think you'll see a huge clamoring within the DNC for a reform if that happens.

 

[LouderVol]

The Nevada Democratic Party said that 58 Sanders supporters were denied because they either were not registered Democrat voters by May 1 or their information (address, date of birth, name, etc.) could not be verfied.

"Of these 64 Delegate and Alternates, six were allowed to be seated after their appropriate information was provided and 58 were denied because of the reasons outlined above," the party said.

at first I was thinking they had a legit reason for a recount. but it seems at least that they followed their own rules. I don't know if thats true or not, but at least some of the 64 were allowed to be counted.

 

[volinbham]

Here's the thing. Sanders' core message is that the system is rigged to keep power in the hands of the rich and connected. Hillary is the poster child for a rigged system and the way the Super Delegates, the DNC and now this event in Nevada reinforce that simply increases the PUMA potential.

Sanders people may sit out, some may go Trump and some will go Clinton. Critically, part of the Obama coalition is young people and they are solidly in the Sanders camp.

This is going to be a wild election.

 

[AirVol]

Who was it on this forum that was poking fun at the GOP having party problems? LMFAO.

 

[volinbham]

at first I was thinking they had a legit reason for a recount. but it seems at least that they followed their own rules. I don't know if thats true or not, but at least some of the 64 were allowed to be counted.

true or not it doesn't matter. A rigged system gave it to the rich and powerful choice.

 

[Obsessed]

Who was it on this forum that was poking fun at the GOP having party problems? LMFAO.

Full of excuses for this one, isn't he?

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

If this were a Trump convention it would be all over the news. The quote below does not bode well for the Dems as there are many who feel the process is rigged for Hillary.

"It was not democracy. We had a motion for Recount on the Floor, Roberta ignored it, and called a motion to adjurn the meeting and then Ran out, even though the Nays won it. She did that on purpose, she is a crook, and needs to be kicked out of her position as Nevada Democratic Chair Woman. I am officially registering as an Independent, I was considering voting Hillary if I had to over Trump, she just changed my mind. She just proved Democrats are Crooks."

 

[TNsnyper20]

A lot of people on both sides don't want to vote for their party's candidate. 'Tis a very strange year and hopefully the beginning of the end of the status quo in Washington.

Of that is the case, this could go down as one of the best elections to happen to the country.

 

[Burhead]

Perhaps we will see some fun at the DNC too.

 

[LouderVol]

true or not it doesn't matter. A rigged system gave it to the rich and powerful choice.

rigged meaning that you are a registered Dem and have to prove some basics? pretty sure these delegates aren't picked out of a hat from the general population the day of.

can't believe I am somewhat defending the democrats.

 

[lawgator1]

I think the effect of the outsider phenomenon will not be equal.

As to Dems, those who supported Bernie are more likely to follow through with a vote for Clinton in the general, because they are fairly liberal and hate the idea of handing control of the WH to the GOP, even if its a bit of a wild card in Trump. They'll show up to vote for her.

As to GOPers, if they hate Trump, I think they are more inclined just to stay home. They dislike HRC, sure. But the intensity is different. If they voted for Kasich, for example, and that's 3.8 million people, they probably won't vote for Clinton, but they aren't going to show up to vote for Trump, either.

 

[hog88]

I think the effect of the outsider phenomenon will not be equal.

As to Dems, those who supported Bernie are more likely to follow through with a vote for Clinton in the general, because they are fairly liberal and hate the idea of handing control of the WH to the GOP, even if its a bit of a wild card in Trump. They'll show up to vote for her.

As to GOPers, if they hate Trump, I think they are more inclined just to stay home. They dislike HRC, sure. But the intensity is different. If they voted for Kasich, for example, and that's 3.8 million people, they probably won't vote for Clinton, but they aren't going to show up to vote for Trump, either.

So you admit Dems are lemmings.

 

[Grand Vol]

I think the effect of the outsider phenomenon will not be equal.

As to Dems, those who supported Bernie are more likely to follow through with a vote for Clinton in the general, because they are fairly liberal and hate the idea of handing control of the WH to the GOP, even if its a bit of a wild card in Trump. They'll show up to vote for her.

As to GOPers, if they hate Trump, I think they are more inclined just to stay home. They dislike HRC, sure. But the intensity is different. If they voted for Kasich, for example, and that's 3.8 million people, they probably won't vote for Clinton, but they aren't going to show up to vote for Trump, either.

Really?

So the GOP won't coalesce behind Trump, but the DNC will set aside their differences?

I know you tend to be delusional, but not uneducated. Hillary represents what is entirely wrong with the "system" in their eyes. Just as Trump does. And they aren't going to magically set aside a hated of the process that's pretty much robbed their candidate of any chance to be the nominee.

 

[lawgator1]

Really?

So the GOP won't coalesce behind Trump, but the DNC will set aside their differences?

I know you tend to be delusional, but not uneducated. Hillary represents what is entirely wrong with the "system" in their eyes. Just as Trump does. And they aren't going to magically set aside a hated of the process that's pretty much robbed their candidate of any chance to be the nominee.

I guess from my outsider perspective the tumult in the GOP has been much more pronounced than in the Dems, and the "really dislike" factor in the GOP as to Trump is higher than the "really dislike" of Clinton in the Dem party.

The polling all seems to support that. Remains to be seen if Trump can repair the damage he's done to get the nomination to begin with.

 

[Grand Vol]

I guess from my outsider perspective the tumult in the GOP has been much more pronounced than in the Dems, and the "really dislike" factor in the GOP as to Trump is higher than the "really dislike" of Clinton in the Dem party.

The polling all seems to support that. Remains to be seen if Trump can repair the damage he's done to get the nomination to begin with.

Trump has an ace in the hole so to speak. He isn't Hillary. And while you could say the same about her in regards to him, he does have the upper hand in being able to say he won the primaries fair and square. When he did win of course.

Bernie followers can honestly say the entire process has been skewed massively in favor of Hillary. And the closer to the Convention we get, the more pronounced the divide within the DNC will become.

 

[malinoisvol]

You know, if Sanders were 15 years younger and just a wee bit less unrealistically idealistic, he might have been able to take this away from her. They've done a very good job of portraying her as the face of institutional Washington politics, and in a very real sense they are right about that.

I don't know exactly where the line is between a positive because she has experience, versus a negative because she's part of the status quo. In the general, she will need to find a way to tout the former as a quality, and discount the latter as a liability.

As long as Bernie knows his place, he won't be found in a park in DC with an air conditioned skull.

- HRC

 

[lawgator1]

Trump has an ace in the hole so to speak. He isn't Hillary. And while you could say the same about her in regards to him, he does have the upper hand in being able to say he won the primaries fair and square. When he did win of course.

Bernie followers can honestly say the entire process has been skewed massively in favor of Hillary. And the closer to the Convention we get, the more pronounced the divide within the DNC will become.

I think that depends on Bernie. If Bernie ends up committing to her and tells his supporters to go with her, too, then that is what will happen. I imagine that in private he complains bitterly about it. But, while he has said its unfair here in the campaign, he has not launched any missile on that he can't recall. He knows that he cannot overcome that problem, and so why burn bridges? He's always come up to the line he can't cross and held back.

I get that you desperately want to deflect away from the calamity that is the GOP, with talk of third party candidates still lingering, and many prominent GOP stalwarts unwilling to hold their noses and say they at least can stand Trump if they have to.

Not going to work.

 

[Weezer]

I think that depends on Bernie. If Bernie ends up committing to her and tells his supporters to go with her, too, then that is what will happen. I imagine that in private he complains bitterly about it. But, while he has said its unfair here in the campaign, he has not launched any missile on that he can't recall. He knows that he cannot overcome that problem, and so why burn bridges? He's always come up to the line he can't cross and held back.

I get that you desperately want to deflect away from the calamity that is the GOP, with talk of third party candidates still lingering, and many prominent GOP stalwarts unwilling to hold their noses and say they at least can stand Trump if they have to.

Not going to work.

So is it impossible for you to separate your bias for the Democrats with reality?

 

[MG1968]

Bernie Sanders falling in line behind Hillary and telling his supporters to come back to the democrat plantation would be the biggest political betrayal of a constituency since Arlen Specter switched parties after voting for the Stimulus package in 2009

 

[lawgator1]

Bernie Sanders falling in line behind Hillary and telling his supporters to come back to the democrat plantation would be the biggest political betrayal since Christie, Fiorina, and pretty much any other GOP nomination seeker who claimed Trump is a liar and a fraud, but now backs him.

fyp

 

[MG1968]

fyp

what you're saying is that democrat voters are sheep, just like republican voters