Confederate Flag in South Carolina

#2
#2
What if our politically correct legions found out that Fort's Bragg, Lee, Polk, Gordon, Stewart, Benning and Hood were named after confederate generals?
 
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#4
#4
I really don't care either way. I do think it should be fair. Don't say its offensive, and have groups that symbolize hate towards white people, and constantly call white people racist. JMO.
 
#5
#5
The reason it must come down is how it was used after the war,not for what it represented during the war.

It has no place flying at the state capitol
 
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#6
#6
barknoxbrawler said:
What if our politically correct legions found out that Fort's Bragg, Lee, Polk, Gordon, Stewart, Benning and Hood were named after confederate generals?
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There is a difference in between appreciating the writings of Rommel, Guderian and Hoth without being an actual Nazi. But I gather that isn't in line with your methodology here.

And there is a stark difference in-between "Politically correct" and "being in opposition to the display of a 19th Century regime that was founded for the sole purpose of the enslavement of an entire race in the 21st Century".

That flag represents ignorance, hatred, bigotry and a particularly malignant interpretation of the bible.
 
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#7
#7
SURFSIDEBEACHVOL said:
The reason it must come down is how it was used after the war,not for what it represented during the war.

It has no place flying at the state capitol
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Good way to put it. I don't think every white person who has one is racist, just as I don't think every person in the NAACP is racist. However, there are racist in both. I've never owned a Confederate flag, just one flag IMO.
 
#8
#8
joevol33 said:
I really don't care either way. I do think it should be fair. Don't say its offensive, and have groups that symbolize hate towards white people, and constantly call white people racist. JMO.
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When the Black Panthers fly their flag or ISIS flies their flag over a state capitol, you'll have a leg to stand on with this inane rabble. JMO.
 
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#9
#9
agent|orange said:
When the Black Panthers fly their flag or ISIS flies their flag over a state capitol, you'll have a leg to stand on with this inane rabble. JMO.
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I get your point, but I think the NAACP has no leg to stand on to call people racist. I'm not racist, I'm not the other joevol you guys have here, I have black family. Just rattling my opinion, but I get what you're saying.
 
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#10
#10
agent|orange said:
There is a difference in between appreciating the writings of Rommel, Guderian and Hoth without being an actual Nazi. But I gather that isn't in line with your methodology here.

And there is a stark difference in-between "Politically correct" and "being in opposition to the display of a 19th Century regime that was founded for the sole purpose of the enslavement of an entire race in the 21st Century".

That flag represents ignorance, hatred, bigotry and a particularly malignant interpretation of the bible.
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I agree it is time to drop it from sailing above state property. But saying its entire group it represented soles purpose ,was to enslave an entire race" is off base. I agree it is time to drop it. But where does it end and when do people realize the states succeeded due to states rights issues which involved slavery and many other issues. Drop the flag is fine..... Dropping the issue of how the flag represents nothing but hatred and we can agree.
 
#11
#11
joevol33 said:
I get your point, but I think the NAACP has no leg to stand on to call people racist. I'm not racist, I'm not the other joevol you guys have here, I have black family. Just rattling my opinion, but I get what you're saying.
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That's a good thing.

But I do agree. There are racists in every walk of life and we should focus our attention on the 8-9/10 of us that aren't bigots. However, the Freedom of Speech usually means the loudest voice gets heard. And that is usually, unfortunately, the Sharptons and the "Good Ole Days" racists from the white side of the fence.
 
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#12
#12
barknoxbrawler said:
I agree it is time to drop it from sailing above state property. But saying its entire group it represented soles purpose ,was to enslave an entire race" is off base. I agree it is time to drop it. But where does it end and when do people realize the states succeeded due to states rights issues which involved slavery and many other issues. Drop the flag is fine..... Dropping the issue of how the flag represents nothing but hatred and we can agree.
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It was States Rights.... but a states right to continue the enslavement of an entire race.

That was the issue. Saying slavery wasn't at the center-point is ignorant of the entire US history from roughly 1800-1861.

States Rights were how they sold it to the non-slaveowning majority of inhabitants in the South to convince them to die for the Confederacy.

Just look at how easy it was to misinform people and get the US to go to war in Iraq. This was modern days. Think about in the 1850s when you had a couple of papers... who would be bankrolled and controlled by the wealthy slaveowners.
 
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#14
#14
agent|orange said:
That's a good thing.

But I do agree. There are racists in every walk of life and we should focus our attention on the 8-9/10 of us that aren't bigots. However, the Freedom of Speech usually means the loudest voice gets heard. And that is usually, unfortunately, the Sharptons and the "Good Ole Days" racists from the white side of the fence.
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True. I get mad at all of it. Especially having cousins who are mixed because I've seen them hurt from black and white people.
 
#15
#15
Lets bring some academics and book learnin' into this discussion. Lets just go ahead and kill this snake:

On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

We, therefore, the People of South Carolina, by our delegates in Convention assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, have solemnly declared that the Union heretofore existing between this State and the other States of North America, is dissolved, and that the State of South Carolina has resumed her position among the nations of the world, as a separate and independent State; with full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.
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That was only a part of the slavery-riddled "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union" that South Carolina issued roughly 5 months before they started the war.

States Rights indeed.
 
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#16
#16
agent|orange said:
It was States Rights.... but a states right to continue the enslavement of an entire race.

That was the issue. Saying slavery wasn't at the center-point is ignorant of the entire US history from roughly 1800-1861.

States Rights were how they sold it to the non-slaveowning majority of inhabitants in the South to convince them to die for the Confederacy.

Just look at how easy it was to misinform people and get the US to go to war in Iraq. This was modern days. Think about in the 1850s when you had a couple of papers... who would be bankrolled and controlled by the wealthy slaveowners.
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It wasn't about slavery, it was about the way slaves were counted in the census and the growing economic and political power in the South.

Lincoln and his cronies wanted the war, not to end slavery but to bring the south back under strict federal control.
 
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#17
#17
hog88 said:
It wasn't about slavery, it was about the way slaves were counted in the census and the growing economic and political power in the South.

Lincoln and his cronies wanted the war, not to end slavery but to bring the south back under strict federal control.
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Just a little more to add to Hog's post

Since Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation as a military measure, it didn’t apply to border slave states like Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri, all of which had remained loyal to the Union. Lincoln also exempted selected areas of the Confederacy that had already come under Union control in hopes of gaining the loyalty of whites in those states. In practice, then, the Emancipation Proclamation didn’t immediately free a single slave, as the only places it applied were places where the federal government had no control—the Southern states currently fighting against the Union.
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#19
#19
9 people murdered in a church and instead of the public discourse focusing on prevention, we focus on a 150 year old battle flag of the defeated army.
 
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#22
#22
They should probably move it to a museum because (in addition to obvious issues) other states (like GA) are going to use it against them when recruiting businesses and factories.
 
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#23
#23
VolsNSkinsFan said:
They should probably move it to a museum because (in addition to obvious issues) other states (like GA) are going to use it against them when recruiting businesses and factories.
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Boy, somebody doesn't know much about history! Georgia always out recruits South Carolina, but usually loses in the end. Oh wait, sorry, I went into football mode when you said recruit.
 
#24
#24
hog88 said:
It wasn't about slavery, it was about the way slaves were counted in the census and the growing economic and political power in the South.

Lincoln and his cronies wanted the war, not to end slavery but to bring the south back under strict federal control.
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And where, in this defiant fight against Federal tyranny does Alexander Stephens' "Cornerstone" speech lie?

I won't post it's heinous contents here but when the Vice President says "it's about slavery and subjugating the black man under the white man" it's pretty indefensible.

Not to mention the states all said "yeah, it's about slavery. That darned Federal government is trying to tell us that owning another human being is some kind of moral issue".

But, whatever. Totally not about slavery. Not at all.
 
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#25
#25
barknoxbrawler said:
9 people murdered in a church and instead of the public discourse focusing on prevention, we focus on a 150 year old battle flag of the defeated army.
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When the murderer used that flag as a representation of his extremely racist views and that flag still flies openly as a symbol of the state he lives in...

Well, I'll just leave it there. Try to derail this however you want but the kid was a racist and that flag is used by racists.

There is no spin there unless you want to apply one.
 
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