The OU Frat Case and the Legal Fallout

#1
volprof

volprof

Destroyer of Nihilists
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#1
Let me state this foremost: the way in which our national media has blown this up into a "story" is absolutely incredible. It's just teen/early-20s singing stupid (and admittedly very vile) material on a private video.

Who cares, right?

Well, this has a lot of potential for a legal ****storm, and here is why:

OU has expelled 2 of the SAE frat members in the video, citing them as producing an environment adverse to learning.

Earlier this morning, CNN had a legal expert that said, should they choose, the expelled frat members most likely have a case against the university violating their free speech.

Of course, if they have any damn sense, they would transfer anyhow, but it does bring up an interesting point about free speech on college campuses.

What say you?

I don't think it ever goes to court, because I think they're probably just wanting to move on (especially since they were going to transfer now anyhow), but this case really has landmark free speech potential, should they ever choose to take it that far.

I'm not saying they would win, and I'm not necessarily siding with them. I just think it's a very complicated case.
 
#3
#3
Let me just clarify that I in no way excuse the video.

I just think this case has potential to fundamentally affect how we think about college students and free speech. Especially since it's a private video that just happened to make it out.

I don't think a court has ever ruled on this.

But, like I said, I would be very surprised if the students and families involved take it to court.
 
#5
#5
volprof said:
Let me just clarify that I in no way excuse the video.

I just think this case has potential to fundamentally affect how we think about college students and free speech. Especially since it's a private video that just happened to make it out.

I don't think a court has ever ruled on this.

But, like I said, I would be very surprised if the students and families involved take it to court.
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At the very least, I would want the expulsion off my records.
 
#6
#6
And let me clarify further, I think, provided this were to be taken to court, it has the potential to serve as a landmark case on free speech in the "technology, digital" era period.

Seriously, this could be a big one, should it happen.
 
#11
#11
Even public schools can have codes of conduct. That has been reinforced in court numerous times. One may dispute whether or not OU's CoC truly prohibited the behavior of the bros. But disciplining violations of a code of conduct that a student voluntarily entered into is not an infringement of free speech.
 
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#12
#12
lawgator1 said:
Any parent that wants his kid to sue over this, to be publicly humiliated another 20 times, just to make an esoteric point, should get help.
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I agree.

But if a group that is "extreme free speech" (they're bound to be out there; hell, even the ACLU could potentially be used) were willing to help, and the ex-students/families were willing, it could be a darn legal catastrophe.

Seriously, have we had an official decision yet on free speech and social media/privacy?
 
#15
#15
They have the right to appeal the decision. If they really want to stay at OU, then they should file an appeal and be as contrite as humanly possible.

Filing a lawsuit is almost as stupid as the initial behavior.
 
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#16
#16
I agree it is an interesting situation worthy of discussion. The university made a knee-jerk reaction with the expulsions, opening up potential ramifications for an outcome that was all but certain anyway. The university and its students do not want these guys around and life on campus will not be the least bit enjoyable. Better for everyone if they continue education elsewhere, perhaps after a short break.

I agree about the potential lawsuit. Fair or not, the public perception will be these guys suing over the right to be racist. They'd be extending and amplifying the impact on themselves and their families. I don't see that transpiring.
 
#19
#19
Let me amend my comments yet again:

If these guys had been conducting public "Hang-em from the Tree; F- N-s" marches or chants on campus, it would be clear cut.

But it was a private video (apparently from a bus trip?).

It's a damn complicated situation.
 
#21
#21
You have to remember that the school, in addition to not restricting First Amendment rights, also has legal obligations as to protecting a reasonably safe and peaceful learning environment for all its students. Balancing those is not easy.

The better claim might be a due process claim. I don't recall reading about any hearings or notice. Not sure what their internal rules are, but that would be first thing I'd look at.

But if they called me I'd want them to REALLY think through what they're going to deal with, and whether the outcome is worth it even if they win.
 
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#22
#22
bamawriter said:
Even public schools can have codes of conduct. That has been reinforced in court numerous times. One may dispute whether or not OU's CoC truly prohibited the behavior of the bros. But disciplining violations of a code of conduct that a student voluntarily entered into is not an infringement of free speech.
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I could be wrong as hell, and, if so, correct me.

But I think this was not only a frat "meeting" but also one off campus.

Frats, while affiliated with unis, are funded outside. (And the national SAE was certainly right to nullify the OU chapter.) Obviously, uni space is given for them though. Further, it's a "private" video that was never, we assume (and it could probably be argued) never meant for "public" viewing. Can you clearly say these were actions meant to "create an adverse learning environment"?

I honestly don't know.

I'm just saying this has potential, should it be taking to court, this has potential to be one of the most significant judicial decisions outside of gay marriage. It's not just about universities and their students; it's about social media and free speech as well.
 
#24
#24
Velo Vol said:
What difference does that make?

Where the conduct occurred (on or off campus) may matter, but not who owns the video.
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I may not be understanding exactly where you're coming from, but, assuming your employer (even private one) gets a hold of you and your honey's privately intentioned sex tape because it's made it "public" somehow, should your employer be able to fire you?
 
#25
#25
Words hurt guys words hurt!!!!

Them words are like bullets to the delicate and fragile soul of Amurican yout's.
 
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